Do I use Heroic Fear or Heroic Gaze as Frost Mage?

[Curnivore]

A problem here is that since Simcraft does absolutely nothing special with the doom proc on the current script, it's probably a DPS advantage in several real scenarios where the player does do something special with it (mainly when multiple adds are around, e.g. Iskar, or Mannoroth, or Archi).

[Laodi]

What should it do? FB is 0.5 seconds slower then IL/FFB. Thats not worth it to throw multiple ILs without the Tomebuff. Only advantage as arcane is AM.
And the calculation for trinkets is based on singletarget so there is no targetswitching.

[Zelendria]

Generally when talking about sims and trinket rankings you're talking about single target or 2/3 target cleave. Any mage who is not asleep can switch targets during a global in those situations. You're vastly exaggerating the added "difficulty" that PoF brings to the rotation on most fight conditions you'd find throughout HFC.

I'm not saying PoF is hard to use, but that Gaze is without doubt easier to use. So why then would you use PoF which is statistically worse on paper than Gaze, and harder to use. It's masochistic.

[Curnivore]

There is nothing hard to replicate on those simulations. They completely ignore if it procced or not.

[Laodi]

As said above: What should the sim do? There is nothing as frost you can do which is really worth it to change the APL for MoD in singletarget.

[Curnivore]

^ I guess AOE could use it in a limited fashion. But it would need being careful and making sure it's an advantage. e.g. Drop two FoF Ice Lances without weaving on 4+ targets or dropping non-FoF ice lances on mass-AOE.

[Wilderness]

Generally when talking about sims and trinket rankings you're talking about single target or 2/3 target cleave. Any mage who is not asleep can switch targets during a global in those situations. You're vastly exaggerating the added "difficulty" that PoF brings to the rotation on most fight conditions you'd find throughout HFC.

I'm not saying PoF is hard to use, but that Gaze is without doubt easier to use. So why then would you use PoF which is statistically worse on paper than Gaze, and harder to use. It's masochistic.

I wouldn't use PoF over Gaze if both were equal. I've already said exactly that earlier.

What I dispute are your continuous statements about how its harder to use - in most normal raid conditions it simply means you may have to change targets. Using words like "masochistic" to describe that is just utter nonsense. PoF is not quite as good as Gaze for Frost, so of course anyone who has both should use Gaze over it but the added "difficulty" for PoF shouldn't even factor into the decision.

[Zelendria]

Why is it that you assume everybody has a MoD WA running some king of nameplate with the debuff tracked that inherently makes using the trinket easier.
Because you find it easier almost certainly running all of the above blanker covers everybody right down to a NM raider potentially running none of it that using PoF properly is as simple as Gaze.

How many Mages right now are 100% reliant on their MoD WA to tell them everytime it procs on a secondary target?
I wonder how many frantically went to get ElvUI when they logged on 20 mins before raid to find the Wednesday patch had broken Tidyplates.

[BrainYtje]

Why did I start this?

[skiz]

As said above: What should the sim do? There is nothing as frost you can do which is really worth it to change the APL for MoD in singletarget.

I have simmed some stuff with PoF and different talents. The only thing that I would change for PoF is the use of cometstorm and the targeting for any other singel target spell. Actually, I forgot about the target switching part on my sims. It should matter for Frostbolt and FFB and icelance on 3+targets. At a very high amount of adds spamming instants into it may help, too. But appart from Cometstorm I do not think that anything changes a lot. And even without changing the target PoF mostly outperforms unblinking gaze.

Speaking of WA and addons and stuff, I honestly would love an addon that can focus / target that add on which it proccs. Or a nameplate addon that scales plates according to debuff. I sometimes do miss the right add at ~9+ Mobs. But well, CMS doesnt care about targeting.

Regarding trinkets, I do recommend:

• Cometstorm + PoF
• Prismatic Crystal+ Unblinking gaze/PoF for singel target encounters. Take PoF for padding and just hope for a decent procc, otherwise go cry. Same trinkets with TV. But TV is just to bad.
• I'm not sure when to skip using classtrinket. But probaly on Xhulhorac and Hellfire Assault.

P.S. missed this thread and I've posted something about that on frost -> talents thread. But apparently, this thread is definitly used, so I've decided to kind of repost it. Sorry in advance.

[Wilderness]

Why is it that you assume everybody has a MoD WA running some king of nameplate with the debuff tracked that inherently makes using the trinket easier.
Because you find it easier almost certainly running all of the above blanker covers everybody right down to a NM raider potentially running none of it that using PoF properly is as simple as Gaze.

How many Mages right now are 100% reliant on their MoD WA to tell them everytime it procs on a secondary target?
I wonder how many frantically went to get ElvUI when they logged on 20 mins before raid to find the Wednesday patch had broken Tidyplates.

If someone is interested enough in their mage and magecraft to come here, then I'm going to assume a certain level of competency. Tracking important CDs, procs, or debuffs is part of that baseline. WA, TellMeWhen, healthbar debuff tracking - there's all kinds of different ways to monitor things that we should know about during a fight and any raider that's at all interested in performance will have a way to track them.

If your comments about PoF being f-ed up and masochistic were intended to refer to a normal mode raider who doesn't use addons, then you should include that caveat with those statements so people can ignore it since its not relevant to them.

[Wilderness]

Speaking of WA and addons and stuff, I honestly would love an addon that can focus / target that add on which it proccs. Or a nameplate addon that scales plates according to debuff. I sometimes do miss the right add at ~9+ Mobs.

Yeah, its a pain in the middle of a bunch of mobs, no way around that. A WA can tell you the name of the mob its on, but when there's like 6 of those same mobs in a group there's no good way to handle it but tabbing through them.

An add-on that targeted mobs like that for you would be a form of botting though, so that'll never be allowed. At least that's usually only an issue on trash rather than bosses for the most part.

[Curnivore]

An issue is that nameplates appear to have a limit in input of information. I could click on a mob but it appears tidyplates doesn't always detect it. I don't think it's tidyplates' fault though, it's probably another one of those game limits.

[skiz]

An issue is that nameplates appear to have a limit in input of information. I could click on a mob but it appears tidyplates doesn't always detect it. I don't think it's tidyplates' fault though, it's probably another one of those game limits.

Mouseover nameplates and they get usually updated with dots / debuffs and stuff. Scaling of em should be easily doable. Yet I dont know any addon that accepts scaling of plates by debuff. I do know some that allows you to scale debuffs on them but it doesnt help it. Some others allow scaling by Threat or Spellcasting. Spellcasting is literally the same mechanic. It just gets detected on mouseover if anythings changes. (unless they are in a frame: target / focus / arena1 / boss1 etc.)

I.e. Procc happened -> mouseover mobs, that mob with buff debuffs nameplate scales up = easily clickable. Atm I sometimes missclick on the wrong nameplate....