Mage's role on Mythic Manny, soak questions...

[poorprae]

I'm asking these questions in a attempt to better understanding the mechanic behind Wrath of Gul'dan/Gripping Shadows and what a mage can do to help soak.

1. Can you soak with Evanesce active?

2. Can you soak with Ice Block active?
2b. Does Ice Block wipe the debuff?
2c. If you have Ice Block glyphed, the 3 seconds of invulnerably after you're out of Ice Block, will the soak be active?

3. What's the best/efficient way to incorporate Greater Inviz to the soak? For example, take 5 stacks, pop Inviz, take X more stacks, Ice Block them all off.

4. It's my understanding that if you have Wrath, you cannot be a target for Shadowforce. Correct?

5. Is the same condition for Imps?
5b. If not, what happens if Wrath is still up on the 2 ranged when Imps spawn? By that I mean should the whole raid single target the Imps that spawn in ranged or...... what's the priority?

[yungg]

1. probably but it's a horrible, horrible idea (evanesce doesn't last anywhere near long enough + not having ice floes on mannoroth = bye bye dps).

2. yes
b. no, but it prevents application of debuff.
c. yes

3. I prefer cold snap on this fight. ice block is good for oh shit moments (out of position w/ shadowforce, or gaze). if you are to use g invis, I'd just blink in, greater invis, block as g invis wears off. if you're soaking, you're taking four ticks of wrath at the same time, you can very easily get instagibbed if you fuck around with trying to squeeze out an extra soak before popping g invis.

4. false.

5. can't be targeted by imp spawns, true. also can't be targeted by gaze.

[poorprae]

Can you be targeted for Felseeker if you have Wrath?

[yungg]

not sure, i'm leaning towards no.

[Selluth]

Immunities in general (Evanesce, Ice Block, Glyph of Ice Block) all prevent stacks from being applied to you, as well as damage being done to you. As you'd expect, these will also take stacks away.

As far as I know, Ice Block does not remove stacks you had before immuning, however I could be totally wrong. An experienced Mage would never run Evanesce for obvious reasons.

You may still be targetted by any mechanic that you would normally have a chance to be struck by (personally I've only seen Gaze hit the soaker once).

From what I've seen, wrath guys can be the target of everything except Gaze. If they get imps, my raid ignores them unless a DK can reasonably grip them without trouble. If more than one spawn, it can spell trouble but not something an organized raid can't handle. You guys will need to make a judgement call based on your timers.

It's probably viable to blink in and invis into an Ice Block, but personally I prefer Cold Snap. You can use 3-4 per fight to immune Doom-Lords, soak, or survive Gaze/Shadowforce in P4.

Edit: I could be wrong about the Wrath guys and what they can be targetted by, but if my 400-500 pulls have anything to say, my raid cries about RNG laughing at us when a shadowforce pushes our healer off, or fel seeker cornering half the guys with Wrath. Warlock gateways can really save the day for these guys.

[poorprae]

4. If all mages choose a Ice Floes/Cold Snap build and we opt to IB/CS in order to (try to) avoid Doom Lord #1, where does that leave us for Wrath duty?

4b. There's only one Wrath per phase. Yes? If so and the strategy above is used, how do mages optimize themselves for Wrath soak and/or more Doom Lord avoidance?

[Frosted]

You just go in some set order of mages.

My guild always does Mage#1, Mage#2, hunter, hunter, paladin backup if needed.

If you are going to Ice Block before the first Wrath for some reason, then you should know that you probably will not be able to soak a second wrath phase if you get that, as your Ice Block will be down.

[Wilderness]

Can you be targeted for Felseeker if you have Wrath?

Yes, you can still be targeted by Felseeker if you're ranged with Wrath, just not gaze or imps.

[poorprae]

Could you be a bit more specific on the soak order?

I assume, as far as mages are concerned, we only assist with Ranged Wrath targets.

If so, how would it work in phase 3? For example, Mage A goes to RWrath A. Mage B goes to RWrath B....?

Or would it be a 3:1 ratio of ranged soakers for a ranged Wrath victim?

Also, is gripping shadow a flat tick or does it increase SMG based on stack size?

Also x2, to immune a Doom Lord spawn, do we IB as the timer expires and RNG it or can we wait for the target name to properly cheese it?

[yungg]

that soak order is assuming you're doing the box method, where someone with an immunity soaks four wraths at the same time.

each application of gripping shadows does more damage the more stacks you have.

[poorprae]

What happens if two players with Wrath stand next to each other?

[Wilderness]

They both gain stacks from the other person.

[Frosted]

that soak order is assuming you're doing the box method, where someone with an immunity soaks four wraths at the same time.

each application of gripping shadows does more damage the more stacks you have.

Sorry, yeah this assumes you are doing a box method as he said.

If one of the soakers get the wrath, it's going to be painful - but you can heal through it.

Normally though you get 4 wrath targets, each one takes a corner of a box, and you put a soaker in the center to soak all 4 wrath chains with an immunity, and then go through an order of people with immunities like I said before.

We swap at 2s left on ice block. Meaning if I am soaking an in Ice Block, Mage#2 comes in at 2s left till ice block ends. As he is entering the square from one side, I end block and begin leaving through another - this means he should only ever have 2 beams on him at once (me having the other 2 as I walk out). Once he reaches the center and ice blocks, I've exited and he gains all 4 beams and begins soaking.

[Curnivore]

edit: nevermind.

[poorprae]

immune a Doom Lord spawn, do we IB as the timer expires and RNG it or can we wait for the target name to properly cheese it (like Empowered Chains)?

[Rinoa]

It's RNG, the only way to tell who it's going to is to look at the trajectory of the projectile. This takes fairly quick reactions and isn't reliable unless you're very good.

[Voelkl]

4. If all mages choose a Ice Floes/Cold Snap build and we opt to IB/CS in order to (try to) avoid Doom Lord #1, where does that leave us for Wrath duty?

4b. There's only one Wrath per phase. Yes? If so and the strategy above is used, how do mages optimize themselves for Wrath soak and/or more Doom Lord avoidance?

All DPS should be killing the first Doom Lord before the ring pops on opener.
Soak order (for box method) should be mage/mage/x/x - this gives you time for hypothermia to wear off to cold snap block the upcoming Doom Lord during a much more hectic time in the fight than the opener.

This has been my experience, at least.

[Curnivore]

Soak order (for box method) should be mage/mage/x/x

That's a lot of soaking there. Is the second mage getting the shadowforce by the way? Because others can't block it.