[Arcane] Need basic help with rotations/mechanics

[Veígar]

I'd consider myself pretty new to WoW. Realistically speaking I've basically only played about a month at 110. So I've been looking for suggestions on how to fix my performance in terms of rotations or what to do when. My DPS is not consistent either, I notice fluctuations in what skill does the most damage and it's usually not what my sim says the top dps is. While I'm playing, I feel like I'm not intentionally doing anything wrong which is why I'm here for help. I've been trying to follow the guide from icy-veins for playing arcane. I have been simming my gear and I know I don't have good legendaries. I'm also trying to learn fire so I'm trying to switch my gear over to crit over mastery.

What I do for boss pulls:
1. Charged up
2. Rune of Power
3. Arcane Power
4. Presence of Mind
5. Mark of Aluneth
6. Arcane blast
7. Arcane missiles when it comes up while rune of power is still up

I know in the boss pull, I should change that to Mark of Aluneth first, and I know I'm missing a few seconds on the pulls. I'm always afraid I might pull early even though I have a DBM timer. I read somewhere else that because I don't have the Kilt legendary, I might consider switching Charged Up to Resonance and using arcane blast to try to build up Arcane Missiles before doing the burn phase, although personally I prefer Charged Up cause I'm more used to it now.

Conserve:
1. Arcane blast
2. Arcane barrage at 3-4 charges when mana is starting to get low
3. Arcane missiles when I have 3 with 4 charges

If I have 4 charges when charged up is available
- In burn phase, I'll arcane barrage and use charged up
- In conserve, I'll use charged up for another arcane barrage dump (assuming another burn phase isn't close)

I use evocation when I run low on mana and try to make the conserve phase last until it comes off cd.
I cast Nether Tempest on cd, Mark of Aluneth with Ring of Power on cd, Arcane Power on cd if it's greater than 30 seconds to my next Ring of Power/Mark of Aluneth combo. I also cast presence of mind on cd. I try to keep prismatic barrier up on cd if there's time in my casting or I expect to take damage.

If there's AoE, I'll Rune of Power, Arcane Power, then arcane explosion to dump mana, then Arcane Barrage / Arcane explosion if Evocation is down.

I have absolutely no idea when to cast timewarp (because I have Shard of Exodar), I usually wait till someone in my raid casts it, then I time my next one with my burn phase.

Is me worrying about using things on cd like charged up/presence of mind slowing my dps down? Should I hold Arcane Power strictly for Ring of Power/Mark of Aluneth combo and should I have X amount of Arcane Missiles built up? Any suggestions are welcome, thanks. Oh yeah, and does spam casting multiple Arcane Missiles cancel the channel, or does it happen one after another?

Warcraft Character Log:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/c ... 66/latest/

First time heroic NH:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/aDvndrNjJpRmPckA/

Wowhead profile:
http://www.wowhead.com/list=35760962/us ... e%C3%ADgar

[Deckzor]

Few things after few seconds of reading..

if you want to improve then listen to what people have to say and do play like think is good ;D YOu can do that but then you will be stuck in the lower middle bracket.

Thats the opener:

1. Charged up
2. Presence of Mind
3. Mark of Aluneth
4. Rune of Power
5. Arcane Power
6. Arcane blast
7. Arcane missiles when it comes up while rune of power is still up

Conserve:
1. Arcane blast
2. Arcane barrage at 3-4 charges when mana is starting to get low
3. Arcane missiles when I have 3 with 4 charges (always when u have 3 procs eben if u only habe 2 charges)

I cast Nether Tempest on cd ---- You never play nether tempest, you always play erosion

Arcane Power on cd if it's greater than 30 seconds to my next Ring of Power/Mark of Aluneth combo ---- you never sync your AP to your RoP/Moa its the other way round always look what AP CD says.

I have absolutely no idea when to cast timewarp (because I have Shard of Exodar), I usually wait till someone in my raid casts it, then I time my next one with my burn phase. --- bad thing in raids is you need the main Timewarp by your guild after that you use it with your next AP/Burn

Is me worrying about using things on cd like charged up/presence of mind slowing my dps down? --- you hold PoM always for your AP. MoA is the only thing you cast even in between but only if you ll get at least another MoA/AP combo out. If the killtime is to low then you wait and sync even that MoA with AP

Oh yeah, and does spam casting multiple Arcane Missiles cancel the channel, or does it happen one after another? ---- it cancels. Get an addon which shows you the clips, then you know when to channel the next. Or use a macro to not cancel but thats a small dps loss.


hope u understood my english is bad

[Veígar]

I think I didn't phrase it properly. I can't tell what my mistakes are because I think I'm playing fine but I'm actually not when I look at logs. That's why I'm here for help.

Nether tempest is for AoE isn't it? Wouldn't I want it for Skorp, Botanist, and Tich? And for Botanist, there are eventually 3 mobs to deal with, should I be switching to Arcane Explosion? If so, how do I even manage mana during such a long duration?

AP is 1.5 mins, RoP is 40 sec, MoA is 1 min. So if I cast AP/RoP/MoA together once, I wait those extra 30 seconds (after MoA is usable) so I can cast all 3 together again?

If I cast Timewarp for myself, it goes first before I start my rotation, or...? And if I needed to timewarp for pull (someone else does it but I just want to know) where do I do it in my rotation, before or after prepot/charged up/PoM?

I'm confused by this:
"MoA is the only thing you cast even in between but only if you ll get at least another MoA/AP combo out"
Do I hold MoA/RoP for 30 sec while AP is still on cool down to use together, or do I use MoA/RoP as soon as MoA is available, and hold AP for 30 sec until MoA is back up?

Is the add-on Gnosis? I can watch my channel bar but it's a little too low. I might just get MoveAnything and move it up.

Thanks for the info.

[Deckzor]

Nether tempest is for AoE isn't it? Wouldn't I want it for Skorp, Botanist, and Tich? And for Botanist, there are eventually 3 mobs to deal with, should I be switching to Arcane Explosion? If so, how do I even manage mana during such a long duration?

No you never play nether tempest since 7.1.5 - you always play erosion
Yes you do your normal rotation with 3 targets except you exchange explo for blast.

ANother thing in nighthold and in myth+ you always play Resonance. The only fights you can play charged up is trilliax(not myth), all other fights you play resonance (especially when you dont have kilt)


AP is 1.5 mins, RoP is 40 sec, MoA is 1 min. So if I cast AP/RoP/MoA together once, I wait those extra 30 seconds (after MoA is usable) so I can cast all 3 together again?

1. MoA/RoP/AP then 2.RoP/MoA 3. MoA/RoP/AP so on. But if you know the fights too short then you delay your MoA thats what i wanted to say earlier.

If I cast Timewarp for myself, it goes first before I start my rotation, or...? And if I needed to timewarp for pull (someone else does it but I just want to know) where do I do it in my rotation, before or after prepot/charged up/PoM?

Charged up,PoM,Pre Pot, Timewarp and go ;D

Is the add-on Gnosis? I can watch my channel bar but it's a little too low. I might just get MoveAnything and move it up.

I use Elvui and there u can move anything and in your castbar you see the channles even with your latency

Cheerz

[Veígar]

I pull around 500k with food, flask, pots, runes, and tw on a training dummy over 5 minutes. I sim at 585k. And I obviously do less dps in movement heavy raids. I guess I just need more practice with my rotations for that last 85k, then practice in raids to keep that when there's movement involved? NH does not seem to be very caster friendly.

[Forrader]

Don't rely on dps shown by simulationcraft, it's just theory and should be used to compare one build or item to another. Check real players logs (e.g. at warcraftlogs) similar to your ilvl/build/legs versus yourself to understand if you are good enough or not.

[Veígar]

Yeah but I parse low on warcraftlogs. Although I know Sims are supposed to be in perfect conditions, the number 1 frost mage for example parses at his Sim DPS or higher (obviously cause of adds).

So it's possible, and being able to hit close to my Sim value on a training dummy should be easy because of no movement.

[Forrader]

Sims is not perfect for Arcane due to complicated rotation.
Comparing your warcraftlogs with better players who hit violet digits:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/co ... pe=summary" target="_blank
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/co ... amage-done" target="_blank

Some of the most obvious advice in priority order

1. Talents:
(i) use Erosion instead Nether tempest. It gives more damage even for AOE.
(ii) use Resonance instead of Charged up. The only exception is if you have kilt and on ST boss. Otherwise Resonance does more damage.

2. Learn arcane rotations - you should use them blindly - burn and conserve phases, they are well described on this forums, on icy-veins, on mmo-champion and on youtube channels. You should never get into out of mana before your evocation is up again. In the same time you should burn all your mana right before your evocation is up and not have some serious postponements for evocation without gravity spiral. Combine AP with appropriate boss mechanics or lust buffs to maximize damage output.

3. Learn boss mechanics: on Spellblade Aluriel fight (2nd url above) you should position yourself well in the middle of adds and spam AE + Barrage (with talented Resonance) if you are saving mana. You didn't really AOEd frost adds and fire adds. You AOEd arcane adds but not enough at all - combine MoA + AP for Arcane adds - arcane mage can do well over 4M dps there by spamming AE under lust and with AP buff.

4. Legendaries: you don't have mana legs like kilt or gravity spiral therefore your rotation is more difficult to keep and mistakes have much bigger impact on your results

5. Buffs:
(i) you missed several Runes of Power during those fights. Try to use them together with MoA / AP or when you accumulate 3 arcane missile stacks. Never let both runes be off the cooldown during the fight.
(ii) use potion of prolonged power 3 seconds before the fight and one more during the fight (together with AP and second lust from your ring) - you used only once.

6. Arcane missiles - never miss arcane missiles procs and check this post about them: https://www.altered-time.com/forum/view ... f=3&t=3839" target="_blank I feel you are either missing some missiles by queuing next spell too early or just missing proc because you already have 3.

I think this should be enough to upgrade your dps and get into blue and violet digits on warcraftlogs.

[Veígar]

1. Already changed to Erosion. Did not change Charged Up yet because I was slow on getting charges by the time my skills came off cd (I'd be at 1-2 charges when they did), will work on getting it removed.

2. I have Gravity Spiral in my bank, should I be using that instead? I think when I swapped out pieces, I'd sim lower and that's why I don't use it. Another issue is, if I'm starting on a boss fight when there needs to be a burn phase shortly after pulling the boss (short enough that I should be dpsing before my AP would come back up), I should hold my cds until then? What would I do on pull in the meantime, cast AB/AM/RoP on 3 AM, and save at least half mana? For example, Gul'dan will spawn his adds before my AP comes back up (1:30 cd), so should I instead hold it? Same with eyes. I was watching Evandis and he always saves RoP and MoA for AP.

3. Yeah the last time I went to Spellblade I parsed at 75 for spamming AE+AP, and I tried to do the same for all fights that had 2+ targets. If there's still AoE left to do, do continue burning even after my evocation? If so, I usually do two arcane explosions and then barrage cause I'm out of mana. I can see Gravity Spiral helping here.

4. See 2.

5. What's the cooldown on the second pot during the fight? I sometimes look at my bar to see if it's up and cast it if I see it, otherwise I don't.

6. I probably focus too much on trying to have 4 charges before I dump AM.

[Forrader]

Just track your charges and use AP once you have 4 charges, delaying it for 1-2 AB casts is not material in your case. Remove charged up ASAP.

Use gravity spiral, it is the best leg for arcane mage after kilt and forget about sim, it cannot properly calculate with spiral, it's a known issue.

Always combine AP with RoP = save one RoP for AP. MoA - not mandatory; if you use MoA by CD then you will combine it during 1st and 3rd AP. Your rotation once AP is off cd is on 4 charges MoA -> RoP -> AP -> burn AMs -> ABs. Ideally you have stacked 2-3 missles before AP. But never stay on 3 missiles casting AB, it's a dps loss

Always save so much mana that you don't go with barrage on less than 4 stacks because of no mana before evocation is up. You always barrage at 4.

On guldan you can save AP for the adds on the first phase, this is the only fight where it makes sense to save AP in the beginning as I recall (oh not, scorp glory hole strat as well ). With the GS you just burn first mana pool, do evocation and by that time there are usually 2 mobs already spawn - you can start AP burn. Small eyes - very accurate AE, so that you don't stay near the tanks (scythe ability by guldan), otherwise focus them with ABs and AMs if you are not confident enough. Bigger eye - just keep some AMs and have 4 arcane charges before it spawns, AP is good for it but not crucial in a good raid composition.

Potion has 1 minute cd, so it's ready by your second AP.

[Veígar]

Yeah I liked Spiral when I was playing with it, I would almost always have mana. Icy-veins ranks it at 6th best which is why I swapped it out for Shard (although I just saw stats for NH and it's top 3/after kilt as you said). I can swap out Belo'vir though. I have 4p set too but it requires chest and helm which unfortunately I have chest and helm legs.

If I barrage at 4 especially during AE, my mana depletes much faster than I'd like in conservation phase.

Are potions not limited to 2 per boss, so it would be longer than a minute? Sometimes I don't see a timer on the pot and its greyed out, not sure why.

Also, Slipstream vs Shimmer? I assume it's personal preference, the top parsing Arcane and always save one stack of AM in case they have to move which is nice, but it might be an extra thing for me to worry about. I usually just Shimmer if I'm in the middle of a cast and need to dodge things. I definitely take advantage of displacement.

[Forrader]

You can drink only 1 pot per boss fight - therefore everyone takes prepot few seconds before the fight.
You can gain 4th charge by arcane missiles if your evocation is far enough and you are in risk to get into out of mana but that should be exception. I played with GS for quite a while before I got 4pc but rarely got into such situation. Combined with 4pc you never get oom with proper rotations.
That's anyway challenging and rewarding spec, you have to manage many things. So just practice with all the tips mentioned here and you'll get better results soon.

[Veígar]

So actually I learned about casting AB after two charges in conserve from watching Evandis here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SyUE0_ZU80k" target="_blank
And he says basically if you don't have Kilt that's mostly all you can do.

Yeah I definitely need practice, but it seems I'm getting better at least slowly.

[Forrader]

Slipstream is better then Shimmer almost in all situations

What do you mean by "I learned about casting AB after two charges in conserve"? I didn't find this in video. Barrage after two arcane charges is a huuuge dps loss - never get into this situation.

[Veígar]

He said it in two comments (one person said he doesn't have the kilt).

"So you keep your mana up in the conserve phase by using arcane barrage. Doing x2 arcane blast and then barraging should be enough to sustain your mana."

"x2 blasts into barrage is all you can do to conserve I'm afraid - it is what it is. Naturally your dps drops quite a bit during conserve as opposed to burn."

4 charge dumps do burn a lot of mana during conserve. It might be the case that I don't have enough mastery.

[Forrader]

Idea about conserve phase right now is to have at least 30% of mana for your burn phase so you could burn with AP not being afraid to go out of mana. You don't need to keep your mana high, with 2pc set bonus you can easily afford even 5-6 rotations with 4AB into AMs into ABarr if your AP cd is still long, during that you will drop from 100% to most probably 30-40% and your AP will be up again, so you can execute burn phase.

With GS+4PC normally you need to Barrage once or twice before 2nd AP and few more times before next APs. So just keep trying to get your 4th piece of set - roll coins for it for sure.

Looking at your yesterday's Krosus (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yV ... &source=13" target="_blank) - there are several spikes into almost 0 dps from you. Probably you did some boss mechanics, but still looking at the number of your Barrage casts (1) and your uptime of ~82% I suspect that you went out of mana several times not being able to cast anything. Try to follow the rotation more properly.

I'm not a perfect player as well but you can compare to my Krosus log in terms of the casts sequence, quantities and execution: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RY ... s&source=4" target="_blank. I basically do what I wrote to you earlier in this topic, no other secrets
By the way my stats are almost same. Try to drop some versatility (to 10%) and increase haste to 19-20%, this might help a bit. Mastery is fine, you don't need more with GS on 4-5 minute fights, especially once you get 4PC.

[Veígar]

I have been rolling coins, all I usually get is AP and gold for the past few weeks. Maybe 1-2 pieces of gear which ended up getting replaced anyway. I've been trying to get Gul'dan to drop set leggings, some boots, and the Whispers in the Dark trinket.

Yeah I know Tuesday wasn't that good for any of us. It was an off day, we had new people and the fights were much more disorganized. Resonance and Gravity Spiral is a much different feel. I haven't played with GS in a long time but I remembered almost never needing mana, so I played like that which hurt my performance. I did go to the back to soak the pools out of range of the boss, but I also ran out of mana when both evocations were down at least once (It was at most twice).

I definitely do need practice, I actually was not there for any of the progression fights (both normal and heroic), the only real progression fight was Heroic Gul'dan, and that was only two nights. All of the kill counts for heroic and normal NH are literally the number of times I have raided. I only have one other NH normal run that wasn't logged. Any idea why some of the logs that are recorded/factored into my score don't actually show up? My guild lead does the logging so I'm not sure.

I did slightly better my second time going to Heroic NH, but there is a lot of improvement to be done. I'll get there with practice. I think I want to get some UI changes as well so I can keep track of AP better. I notice I end up clipping it because RoP expires at 10 seconds but AP expires at 13 (the visual for AP isn't noticeable enough for me). I've been using Tellmewhen for cds but I'll transition to WeakAuras, then eventually try to add Elvui (I hated it when I first tried it).

My haste is at 15%, my mastery is at 23%. I used to have mastery at 31% with GS before I started working on fire/frost. I follow sims on all three specs for gearing, but I'm going to focus on arcane/frost (I have the bracers for frost).

I just need to slowly transition into everything and I should be okay.

[Forrader]

One more advice: try to focus on the single spec for few weeks, e.g. arcane (also invest AP into that to get +15% dmg bonus early in 7.2). Changing specs (arcane / frost) is not good when you are still not perfect in both, it will slow down learning each of them. It's better if you achieve higher performance equal to purple rankings for one spec than having green/low blues with both specs.

[Veígar]

Oh yeah. I basically do everything in arcane because I'm better with it, but I loot spec for frost. I have gear sets for both, I just got 875 legs off a bonus roll from Gul'dan normal so now I have 4p for all specs. 4p will mean I shouldn't ever run out of mana. I do all my raiding and questing in arcane, I just learn the rotation of frost and practice it in lfr/training dummy sometimes. I don't have my UI for frost set up either. Arcane is 40, frost is 39. I have fire at 43, I plan on distributing the refund to arcane/frost, and it will be much easier to get AP when they raise the cap of artifact knowledge to 40.