Challenge Mode Mages Optimization

Anything mage specific not covered by any of the other subforums, like raid instance guides for mages.
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flyinfungi
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Challenge Mode Mages Optimization

Unread postby flyinfungi Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:47 am

Hopefully this hasn't been covered, search seems to be broken on the site. Looking for any information or experience people may have on challenge modes in WoD.

I have completed 2 Gold challenges, Iron Docks and Auchindoun. I have been playing frost. I was looking to get my DPS up higher for challenge modes. Here is a compiled list of items that would work for getting gear. When I simcrafted my character I got my stat weight as the following...

Multi > Haste > Mastery = Vers > Crit

Helm http://www.wowhead.com/item=113596&bonus=0" target="_blank
Neck http://www.wowhead.com/item=109957&bonus=524" target="_blank No multi/haste combo, can craft BIS.
Shoulder http://www.wowhead.com/item=109930&bonus=524" target="_blank
Back http://www.wowhead.com/item=109925&bonus=524" target="_blank No multi/haste combo, can craft BIS.
Chest http://www.wowhead.com/item=113655&bonus=0" target="_blank
Bracer http://www.wowhead.com/item=109881&bonus=524" target="_blank
Gloves http://www.wowhead.com/item=115677" target="_blank PvP
Belt http://www.wowhead.com/item=109827&bonus=524" target="_blank
Pants http://www.wowhead.com/item=113828&bonus=0" target="_blank
Boots http://www.wowhead.com/item=115624" target="_blank No multi/haste combo, can craft BIS.
Ring1 http://www.wowhead.com/item=113651&bonus=567" target="_blank
Ring2 http://www.wowhead.com/item=115662" target="_blank PvP
Trink1 http://www.wowhead.com/item=113859&bonus=0" target="_blank
Trink2 http://www.wowhead.com/item=110004/coag ... &bonus=518" target="_blank

You can also get lucky on garrison follower items that have a pure secondary stat. For instance I got this neck with 126 multistrike and leech.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=114477/arca ... ed-by-item" target="_blank

Glyph Choices:
Splitting Ice
Icey Veins
Cone of Cold (Although this can be replaced if you are a dungeon that it is dangerous to be close to mobs.)

Talent Choices:
Tier 1: Doesn't matter
Tier 2: Ice Barrier
Tier 3: Frostjaw for the odd mob you need to stun (Auchindoun Cleric), otherwise you can go Ring of Frost.
Tier 4: Cauterize
Tier 5: Frost Bomb is probably your best choice with the large amount of AOE. UM a close second.
Tier 6: Incanters Flow. I find RoP to be too slow with the constant moving needed from trash abilities.
Tier 7: Prismatic Crystal (Although I have been going TV as I am not used to PC)

Anyone familiar with trying Fire in challenge modes and your experiences?
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durrtygoodz
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Re: Challenge Mode Mages Optimization

Unread postby durrtygoodz Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:06 am

Don't use simcraft for getting ideas about trinkets/stat weights for cms. Haste is near worthless for the type of damage you need to do. You want to maximize straight crit+multi.

Quiescent Runestone is near useless because there's no proc/activation, and most of the time in CMs you're either bursting or doing nothing, especially as a mage. If it wasn't for a mages burst you'd see a lot more top teams drop them for warriors.

As for talents, GI is far better than cauterize and AT has a lot of uses (1st boss UBRS is glorious), and I wouldn't say UM is close to frost bomb. IN is kinda underrated for CMS especially as it gives an aoe interrupt but frost bomb is providing the most damage. UM is just useless as it gives no on demand burst.
Anyone familiar with trying Fire in challenge modes and your experiences?
Don't.
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durrtygoodz
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Re: Challenge Mode Mages Optimization

Unread postby durrtygoodz Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:16 pm

Not sure how to do tooltips but here's changes to the gear list I'd make, this is almost what I use but I just haven't got around to finishing it yet, too many raids atm to find time to gear my mage properly.

Helm Vilebreath Mask
Neck Alc's Pendant of Fiery Dreams <-- change to Odyssian Choker, drops from Twins
Shoulder Mantle of Arcane Mystery
Back Forgeflame Greatcloak No multi/haste combo, can craft BIS.
Chest Hexweave Robe of the Savage <- crit MS crafted
Bracer Hexweave Bracers of the Savage <- crit ms crafted
Gloves Meatmonger's Gory Grips <- crit ms, drops from Butcher, also BoE
Belt Lightbinder Girdle
Pants Sea-Cursed Leggings
Boots Primal Gladiator's Treads of Prowess <- keep
Ring1 Mark of Ice, crit+MS, hc dung drop
Ring2 Legendary Ring, the proc works in cms still
Trink1 PvP proc trinket, switch to 640 alch when it's released
Trink2 Coagulated Genesaur Blood
Weapon = Staff from Imperator

The ones i havent changed yet are slots I've been unable to find crit/ms items for, but you have a chance of getting those items from the daily CM box (got 2 so far)
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Kams
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Re: Challenge Mode Mages Optimization

Unread postby Kams Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:08 pm

The stats I would shoot for CMs are Multi > Haste > Crit = Vers > Mastery

I can't remember why Haste was better than Crit but I let smarter people than me figure that stuff out. Try and get as little Mastery as you can because it is already the weakest Frost stat on top of it doing nothing for your AoE damage. My CM gear is a little too heavy on the crit so do as I say not as I do!
Quiescent Runestone is near useless because there's no proc/activation, and most of the time in CMs you're either bursting or doing nothing, especially as a mage. If it wasn't for a mages burst you'd see a lot more top teams drop them for warriors.
Runestone has a too much passive stats to call useless. You can get bad trinket procs right as a pull dies that doesn't do you any good. It isn't the best trinket but I wouldn't rule it out if you have pvp trinkets or something. The two best trinkets right now are Coagulated Genesaur Blood and the Alchemist crafted trinket.
The top teams have actually dropped their Mages for Warlocks or Warriors. Their burst is much faster and better. Mage has a lot of set up and some of the pulls die so fast that you don't finish your Crystal aoe fest before they die. Times are also changing every day, new comps and strats all the time. Hotfixes and BRF trinkets will change things again. Mages are still definitely in the top 5 dps for CM times and top 3 for just regular golds.
Anyone familiar with trying Fire in challenge modes and your experiences?
I did an 8/8 Gold as Fire to see how it went and it actually wasn't that bad. I wasn't in fire gear or enchanted for Fire so I would even go as far to say that it's not that far behind Frost. Still no real reason to play it for Frost if you are new to CMs though.
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Berlinia
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Re: Challenge Mode Mages Optimization

Unread postby Berlinia Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:49 pm

@Kams, sadly durrtygoodz is 100% correct. You are right that Runestone has a high static stat budget, but CM's are all about the huge pull you want to destroy as fast as possible. Trinkets with an on-use or an RPPM are the best possible.
I take Genesaur Blood and Alchemy Trinket(i know it's an ICD but it's a strong one)
Also haste isn't bigger than crit it's worse :)
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Kams
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Re: Challenge Mode Mages Optimization

Unread postby Kams Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:39 am

@Kams, sadly durrtygoodz is 100% correct. You are right that Runestone has a high static stat budget, but CM's are all about the huge pull you want to destroy as fast as possible. Trinkets with an on-use or an RPPM are the best possible.
I take Genesaur Blood and Alchemy Trinket(i know it's an ICD but it's a strong one)
Also haste isn't bigger than crit it's worse :)
I did say that the two best trinkets for CMs right now are Coagulated Genesaur Blood and the Alchemist crafted trinket. All the best times I have done I've use a Runestone because I don't have the time or luck to farm Everbloom. The only time your damage counts on AoE is if you have Frozen Orb so if you get a trinket proc with out Frozen Orb it isn't very useful. All I was trying to say is that the trinket isn't worthless for CMs and it is better than the pvp trinkets.
As I said above I am not great with simming stuff so I just wing it till I hear what's best. I was just going off of http://altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=780 If anyone knows something better to go off of let me know! I would gladly take crit second as that's what like all my gear is right now.
GeorgesMelies
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Re: Challenge Mode Mages Optimization

Unread postby GeorgesMelies Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:49 pm

Good morning,
I was wondering if there was some new gear from BRF considered "BiS" regarding Challenge Modes as Frost. There is a nice pair of wrists with Crit/Multi, among other things.

Back in the days (when we were doing CM dailies for the 640/645 cache) I read here and there the Multistrike/Versatility combo was very strong, and I had almost all pieces Multi/Versa or Multi/Crit (and I was performing quite well!). But looking at both lists of items posted here, I couldn't be more far from the truth :p So I'd like to set the clock right ;)

Thank you, have a nice day :-)
Zyrachiel
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Re: Challenge Mode Mages Optimization

Unread postby Zyrachiel Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:43 pm

I'm planning on getting into CM's on my mage in the near future, just gold, no stellar time racing.

I am currently fire, gemmed and enchanted for mastery as per the 6.1 multi-target stat priority. Since most of the CM's involve bursting down large packs of mobs, would you consider Mastery ideal, or should I go more towards crit/haste?
Also, which trinket combination would you recommend? I have access to Blackiron Micro Crucible, Goren Soul Repository (with a gem), DMF, PvP or any of the other farmable trinkets.
Drevneus
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Re: Challenge Mode Mages Optimization

Unread postby Drevneus Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:21 pm

Apparently the difference between Crit\Haste leveled ability to play =) I think Crit better on AoE (though heard with Haste more ticks Bombs ...) and Haste on bosses. But I have not noticed a difference, procs a lot more influence ...
Sorc17
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Re: Challenge Mode Mages Optimization

Unread postby Sorc17 Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:14 pm

Multi > Haste > Mastery = Vers > Crit
Is this stat priority still actual for frost mage?
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durrtygoodz
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Re: Challenge Mode Mages Optimization

Unread postby durrtygoodz Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:01 am

Multi > Haste > Mastery = Vers > Crit
Is this stat priority still actual for frost mage?
I rate crit higher than haste but nobody listens to me :twisted:
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Beeblespark
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Re: Challenge Mode Mages Optimization

Unread postby Beeblespark Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:21 am

I'm planning to do CM Golds somewhere this week, and I'm wondering whether this list of gear is still up-to-date, or if maybe there is a list that includes raid gear from HFC as well, seeing as how HM isn't really run anymore.
Bucky
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Re: Challenge Mode Mages Optimization

Unread postby Bucky Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:37 pm

Any gear above 630 is viable. However, I would look into Baleful token gear. Since it can roll 100% multistrike, that would be the best source of gear.

Trinket selection is what I'm curious about. Does the class trinket work and is it any good in CMs?
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Ipsissimus
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Re: Challenge Mode Mages Optimization

Unread postby Ipsissimus Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:33 am

Class trinket gets aggressively scaled down with item level and is not worth using in CMs.
Magenv
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Re: Challenge Mode Mages Optimization

Unread postby Magenv Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:36 am

I am going to be running cmodes on my mage this weekend, is there an updated list?
skiz
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Re: Challenge Mode Mages Optimization

Unread postby skiz Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:08 am

If you want to play it as frost:
- take frostbomb
- take the most OP trinket during this expansion: Prophecy of fear
- take the best on/use trinket you can find: Copeland's clarity

Enjoy cometstorm with PoF during trash. TV may be needed during longer trash pulls. Have a second specc with Mirror Images for bosses. There isn't much you can optimize gearwise. Stack your best stat, choose trinkets. Adjust tactics / gear / Talents to whatever you want to do during that dungeon. There are multiple ways to play such dungeons. Enjoy the way you want to play it.
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Curnivore
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Re: Challenge Mode Mages Optimization

Unread postby Curnivore Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:00 am

They've been telling me at MMO Champion that RNG specs are a very bad idea. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/194 ... st38606300" target="_blank

I agree it can be a liability. In a 5man, 1 3rd of the DPS being too RNG depended can create instability.

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