[Discussion] Patch 6.2 PTR

[Tilo]

This is looking like something very appealing. Perhaps something akin to the current Tier17 4-piece Fire bonus, but with the sense of control arcane should have.

What if 2 the piece gave a buff: While your arcane power buff is active, presence of mind lasts 5 secs.

This would create great synergy with our cooldowns, and the class trinket!

[Stressball]

Arcane does not need AB to all of a sudden be instant cast all the time. It just leads to headaches with mana conservation and unpredictability in your rotation. Arcane is about intelligent mana consumption. PoM only complicates this and the element of randomness is a giant leap in the wrong direction.

The whole idea of PoM being integrated into the set bonuses needs to just go. The spell as a whole should just go. I still don't understand why it stayed amid all the other pruning the did. It's next to useless.

[Komma]

For those who missed the note: FoF buffed 100% -> 140% means all 3 core spells (Frostbolt, Frostfire Bolt, Ice Lance) are buffed equally again. No more rotation weirdness.

[DeaThShiNoBi]

Arcane does not need AB to all of a sudden be instant cast all the time. It just leads to headaches with mana conservation and unpredictability in your rotation. Arcane is about intelligent mana consumption. PoM only complicates this and the element of randomness is a giant leap in the wrong direction.

The whole idea of PoM being integrated into the set bonuses needs to just go. The spell as a whole should just go. I still don't understand why it stayed amid all the other pruning the did. It's next to useless.

I'm in favor of removing anything to do with PoM from the 2pc. And in favor of removing PoM from the game. I've felt the same opinion as you about PoM for a while now (that it's very surprising it has survived the prunings).

[Abjatha]

Considering Frostbolt and Frostfire bolt buffs also T18 2 piece set bonus. Is there any chance that Unstable Magic might pass Frost Bomb or Ice Nova in patch 6.2?

[Komma]

Considering Frostbolt and Frostfire bolt buffs also T18 2 piece set bonus. Is there any chance that Unstable Magic might pass Frost Bomb or Ice Nova in patch 6.2?

IN maybe, no for FBomb.

I've posted my thoughts (disapproval) on the current 2T18 Arcane set bonus in the battle.net feedback thread. Feel free to share your own thoughts.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... age=11#201" target="_blank

[Latonius]

So with Mastery affecting Water Jet, is the stat good enough to switch to Frost when your gear favors Arcane spec?

[Quetesh]

Arcane 2p just doesn't feel right I tried it but it feels like i am lagging.

[Kasc]

I can't quite believe how bad both iterations of Arcane 2PC have been. I go back to my earlier comment:

Makes me wonder if the class balance team even tried the tier out.

I want to be able to reply with my agreement Komma, but as an European, we are basically locked out of any meaningful discussion on official PTR or beta threads.

Yes this is snarky.

[Zelendria]

Arcane rotation and damage is like a traditional roller coaster. You usually build up the start, go with the big drop, and then it eases out for a while until you're ready for another big drop.

2pc is the exact same roller coaster with a kid at the helm playing with the brake button.

[Stressball]

I can't quite believe how bad both iterations of Arcane 2PC have been. I go back to my earlier comment:

Makes me wonder if the class balance team even tried the tier out.

I want to be able to reply with my agreement Komma, but as an European, we are basically locked out of any meaningful discussion on official PTR or beta threads.

Yes this is snarky.

There is an EU trinket/set bonus thread too.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/14628694225" target="_blank

[Frosted]

So with Mastery affecting Water Jet, is the stat good enough to switch to Frost when your gear favors Arcane spec?

Probably. Secondaries don't really matter I think. The default profiles right now are all extremely mastery heavy for T18 and Frost still sims very high. (Not that they will always be. I'll probably have a pass at improving them tonight or tomorrow and see if I can't get a BiS list up with stat allocations for us to look through).

And honestly, it's the Frostbolt/Frostfirebolt buffs that are making mastery a lot stronger for Frost. The water jet change is trivial compared to those, it just makes Water Jet slightly less awful next to waterbolt for the sake for the 4pc.

[Frosted]

Here is what I have for Frost BiS.

Code: Select all

head=countenance_of_the_revenant,id=124158,bonus_id=567 neck=choker_of_forbidden_indulgence,id=124391,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_multistrike shoulders=mantle_of_the_arcanic_conclave,id=124177,bonus_id=567 back=cloak_of_hideous_unity,id=124138,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_multistrike chest=robe_of_the_arcanic_conclave,id=124171,bonus_id=567 wrists=powdersinged_bracers,id=124183,bonus_id=567 hands=gloves_of_the_arcanic_conclave,id=124154,bonus_id=567 waist=sash_of_unending_anguish,id=124181,bonus_id=567 legs=pantaloons_of_the_arcanic_conclave,id=124165,bonus_id=567 feet=bloody_daggerheeled_pumps,id=124149,bonus_id=567 finger1=loathful_encrusted_band,id=124192,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_multistrike finger2=nithramus_the_allseer,id=124635,enchant=gift_of_multistrike trinket1=unblinking_gaze_of_sethe,id=124229,bonus_id=567 trinket2=prophecy_of_fear,id=124230,bonus_id=567 main_hand=edict_of_argus,id=124382,bonus_id=567,enchant=mark_of_the_frostwolf

To come up with it I sim'd every option in every slot and then took the two highest performing off-set items, combined them with the best non-set slot items, and then put them against each other and the profile I linked previously (which is just highest ilvl in every slot).

I'm not super confident in the trinket selection, but it should be good.

From looking through the items in every slot it seems like Frost gear that lacks MS or Haste isn't worth the increased ilvl. But the differences tend to be extremely small, maybe 100 DPS in most cases. The only outliers are shoulders/helm, where off-set pieces sim'd here are like 300-400 DPS higher than the closest competitor.

Here is the comparison of the highest ilvl vs. the other two sets I put together:



It's really close. Like, pointlessly close IMO. In a raid scenario, you'll almost never actually care about upgrading from your highest ilvl to the technical "BiS" if someone else in the raid wants the item for a real upgrade.

I'm not saying this is THE BiS list, just to throw that out there. We need to improve the APL to deal with Frost T18 4pc, and that could move things around since everything is so close. But it should be plenty good enough to go into Hellfire Citadel with an idea of what gear you want to pick up if you're playing Frost.

I need to finish a few more Arcane sims, and then I'll have Arcane + Fire BiS lists up.

Scale factors for the hell of it.

[DeaThShiNoBi]

The post by "Xariaz" on the feedback thread, pg. 11 (here: us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17346265830?page=11#206) very much highlights why I think that Overpowered should be much stronger than the Crystal, at least before we get the rings. Frosted and Komma may be right about the Legendary Ring's activate destroying any semblance of variation in playstyle, but as another has pointed out, we aren't getting the rings for a while, most likely, and the real cutting edge mages looking for absolute min-max damage should look into Overpowered with Unstable Magic and haste gems + enchants with gear primarily favoring haste, secondary mastery, distant third multistrike.

My rudimentary sims have shown that UM_RoP_OP slightly outperforms SN_RoP_PC even with the Archimonde trinket from Normal HFC and gear favoring mastery (it's actually just using Frosted's "starting point" gear from pg. 5 of this thread). These are conditions that favor SN_PC, but UM_OP comes out on top anyway.

[Frosted]

Yes, UM profiles are outperforming most every other combination. Pre-ring, UM_RoP_OP is stronger (I think this is mainly due to UM being OP with the archimonde trinket). Once you add the ring in though, PC > OP for the ring. So you run UM_RoP_OP.

Either way, good on you for actually thinking outside of the box and looking at UM at all. Most of us had completely written it off.

[DeaThShiNoBi]

Hey Frosted, I was playing around with your starting point gear set for Arcane from pg. 5 of this thread. I set all of the bonus IDs to 0 (i.e. made them the normal version), and, inexplicably, SN_PC suddenly had higher haste coefficient than mastery coefficient. I cannot figure out why this might be the case. Is this the same for you? True, the Archimonde trinket should devalue haste a bit, so it being at the lower powered version should increase the value of haste, but I wouldn't figure that haste would ever surpass mastery for SN_PC. Is this out of control haste scaling perhaps due to the Prophecy of Fear trinket?

[Frosted]

I'll look into the Arcane stuff later.

Here is the Fire BiS I have right now:

Code: Select all

head=cowl_of_the_arcanic_conclave,id=124160,bonus_id=567 neck=vial_of_immiscible_liquid,id=124212,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike shoulders=mantle_of_the_arcanic_conclave,id=124177,bonus_id=567 back=cloak_of_hideous_unity,id=124138,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike chest=raiment_of_divine_clarity,id=124170,bonus_id=567 wrists=contemptuous_wristguards,id=124186,bonus_id=567 hands=gloves_of_the_arcanic_conclave,id=124154,bonus_id=567 waist=sash_of_unending_anguish,id=124181,bonus_id=567 legs=pantaloons_of_the_arcanic_conclave,id=124165,bonus_id=567 feet=bloody_daggerheeled_pumps,id=124149,bonus_id=567 finger1=seal_of_the_traitorous_councilor,id=124191,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike finger2=nithramus_the_allseer,id=124635,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike trinket1=unblinking_gaze_of_sethe,id=124229,bonus_id=567 trinket2=goren_soul_repository,id=119194,bonus_id=567 main_hand=edict_of_argus,id=124382,bonus_id=567,enchant=mark_of_the_thunderlord

Got it the same way I did for Frost.

[Alzer]

I'll look into the Arcane stuff later.

Here is the Fire BiS I have right now:

Code: Select all

head=cowl_of_the_arcanic_conclave,id=124160,bonus_id=567 neck=vial_of_immiscible_liquid,id=124212,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike shoulders=mantle_of_the_arcanic_conclave,id=124177,bonus_id=567 back=cloak_of_hideous_unity,id=124138,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike chest=raiment_of_divine_clarity,id=124170,bonus_id=567 wrists=contemptuous_wristguards,id=124186,bonus_id=567 hands=gloves_of_the_arcanic_conclave,id=124154,bonus_id=567 waist=sash_of_unending_anguish,id=124181,bonus_id=567 legs=pantaloons_of_the_arcanic_conclave,id=124165,bonus_id=567 feet=bloody_daggerheeled_pumps,id=124149,bonus_id=567 finger1=seal_of_the_traitorous_councilor,id=124191,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike finger2=nithramus_the_allseer,id=124635,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike trinket1=unblinking_gaze_of_sethe,id=124229,bonus_id=567 trinket2=goren_soul_repository,id=119194,bonus_id=567 main_hand=edict_of_argus,id=124382,bonus_id=567,enchant=mark_of_the_thunderlord

Got it the same way I did for Frost.

Shouldn't the 715 crit trinket from inscription outperform Repository?

[Frosted]

I didn't do anything with the inscription trinkets yet.

[Alzer]

http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=112320/sand ... &bonus=618" target="_blank

Edit: I'm too slow.