[Discussion] Patch 6.2 PTR

[recom]

I am trying to compile a 6.2 "State of the Specs" post before Tuesday. It's meant as a summary for Mages who haven't been following PTR news closely, so I want to keep it short and focused on the main things. What would you guys like to see in it? So far I have:
- Basic spec comparisons
- Set bonuses
- Trinkets (class and exotic ones like Prophecy of Fear
- Stats and gearing (due to itemlevel changes)
- Notable talent/spec combos
- Predictions for how well each spec plays out in HFC

That's already a lot of things, so I'd rather cut down on the list instead of adding to it. Is there something you guys would rather see, or feel like don't need to be included in this list?

EDIT: Also, relink whatever loot lists/useful links you can think of!

That's already a lot but I think it could be very interesting if you could give some insights on rotation changes with T18 and/or class trinket, even for people who have been closely following your thread(s).

[Eva]

http://ptr.wowhead.com/list=6420264/arcane-bis-6.2
http://ptr.wowhead.com/list=6420977/frost-bis-6.2

These were made combined with what I've seen in this post, plus some research I've done on loot from wowhead.

[Powered]

First of all, thanks for all the work you've done Frosted, that's a colossal effort and saves the rest of us a shitload of time.

Just wanted to ask about the choice of weapon enchant.

I've read through most of it, and not sure if I understand everything completely correctly, but does the haste enchant give you enough haste for an extra attack from your pets? If not, would it not be better to go with the mastery one? I'm under the assumption that haste is a lot less desirable after we reach the 25-26% mark, so if we have that cap, then would it be an option to switch the enchant?

Cheers.

[Frosted]

Warsong is always better than bleeding hollow, even for the mythic profile (took out the legendary from it). The enchants are pretty much always haste enchants, even in BiS.

[Powered]

On a side note, I've thrown into a spreadsheet the current BiS lists from the info you've gathered on these forums, and speccing arc/frost doesn't look like too much of an ordeal, as a lot of the pieces seem to be the same. Not as much switching as I expected...

http://i.imgur.com/s8Tdrxz.jpg

Just pulled from my guild's BiS list spreadsheet that I've been inputting into, so it's missing the actual item names atm, but you can still see the similarities.

[Calo]

I think most people consider the hassle of combining frost and arcane to be having to swap gems and enchants. Just got back though so i might have missed something which makes my statement false.

[Muoric]

I think most people consider the hassle of combining frost and arcane to be having to swap gems and enchants. Just got back though so i might have missed something which makes my statement false.

Well the big difference is that when you don't gem/chant for mastery for arcane anymore it changes the field.

If the gear has otherwise enough haste, I can see a valid case in going multistrike for gems and enchants depending on what the fights will require more on mythic. Not for cutting edge, but for them the cost of swapping shouldn't matter anyway.

[Carwey]

Is there anything we could do to not waste the last half of the first Prophecy of Fear proc? The usual 10 second ICD after equipping the trinket doesn't seem to apply so equipping it right as the fight is about to start doesn't work.

[Mortiferus]

I think most people consider the hassle of combining frost and arcane to be having to swap gems and enchants. Just got back though so i might have missed something which makes my statement false.

That's the hassle of combining any two mage specs, at the moment. Arcane wants to gem/enchant/eat Haste (eating might change to Mastery at BiS, haven't simmed this yet). Frost wants to gem/enchant/eat Multi. Fire wants to gem/enchant/eat Crit (or possibly Mastery, if you're using it for a heavy AoE niche).

Arcane and Frost share more gear than Arcane and Fire, or Fire and Frost. So, Arcane/Frost is actually the easiest to gear for. It also matters significantly that Arcane and Frost now use the same trinkets.

Still, as you and others have said, we'll need two necklaces, four rings (including two of the Legendary), two capes and two weapons.

However, it isn't completely miserable to run Haste enchants, etc. as Frost. So my plan is to enchant/gem for Arcane, and accept that Frost suffers slightly—at least until I'm drowning in gear.

[Rabona]

Do we even want to play Arcane at all (at least until we get some mythic gear and the ring) if they don't change Frost's interaction with Prophecy of Fear?
Given that we can get our hands on some multistrike gear quickly of course.

[Zelendria]

I want to play Arcane it's my favourite spec.

How is the general QoL without T17 2pc fire?

[matchbox]

Do we even want to playe Arcane at all (at least until we get some mythic gear and the ring) if they don't change Frost's interaction with Prophecy of Fear?
Given that we can get our hands on some multistrike gear quickly of course.

Yes, I've been thinking about it as well. But it's more dependent not on multistrike gear (there is plenty of it so you are bound to get some), but on getting the Prophecy itself, imho.

[Frosted]

Do we even want to playe Arcane at all (at least until we get some mythic gear and the ring) if they don't change Frost's interaction with Prophecy of Fear?
Given that we can get our hands on some multistrike gear quickly of course.

From a practical standpoint i think Arcane handles mechanics much better than Frost. Getting 14s WJ value in a raid just isn't going to happen, and neither is icicle/doomnova going to happen consistently.

[GriffKentner]

PLEASE tell me it won't kill dps for Frost if we choose not to use the class trinket. I played with it a lot and it makes the spec feel horrible. If the dps margin is too large between that and another trinket pairing, I'm going to have to play arcane again, and I really don't want to. By the love of Frosted and Komma, please tell me prophecy and another trinket will do just as well. In a mythic setting, they'd have to be close for me to justify using to my group.

[Frosted]

PLEASE tell me it won't kill dps for Frost if we choose not to use the class trinket. I played with it a lot and it makes the spec feel horrible. If the dps margin is too large between that and another trinket pairing, I'm going to have to play arcane again, and I really don't want to. By the love of Frosted and Komma, please tell me prophecy and another trinket will do just as well. In a mythic setting, they'd have to be close for me to justify using to my group.

1target

Code: Select all

72447 51.7% Mage_Frost_T18H_weaving 67622 48.3% replaced_mage_trink

It's a gigantic single target DPS loss to not use the mage trinket and weave.

I mean, just look at the trinkets:



The mage trinket is easily the best. And this was done before Preheat improved weaving on PC by 1.3%. As we improve WJ use in the sim (and therefore FoF procs) it'll just get better.

[Winzer]

Hey guys! Thanks for the brilliant work you'd done before.

Preparing for the patch on Wednesday, i was wondering how to enchant my character? I'll be running Arcane on ST and Frost on MT. What enchants are the best for this combination? Haste because its best for Arcane and good for Frost?

I know I have to get a lot of off-pieces but since i'll get them i have to play with my current gear.

[Frosted]

Some people have brought up the haste % that I suggested earlier (25-26) and how mythic geared mages might want to swap enchants. I've gone ahead and started working with the mythic profile a bit (removing the legendary ring) to get a feel for how haste functions at this higher ilvl. Every time I try to swap straight haste for mastery, it's a DPS loss. In looking at the reforge plot, it turns out that mythic ilvl mages sit right at the final jump in haste value before the fall off (which is occurring around 30% haste).

Therefore, I think it's possible to collapse Arcane priority into something much simpler:

Haste 20% (1300rating) > Int > Haste > Mastery=Mult > Crit > Vers

Unless you are full BiS + Sockets, getting to the haste rating needed to see that drop isn't going to happen. And once you are in full BiS + Sockets...I guess we can start talking about that when we get there. But it'll be for awhile yet.

Just don't go full retard with haste, and start dropping your ilvl to grab more. Haste still slowly loses value vs. int as you stack it, so you still don't want to do something dumb like pass up on 5-10ilvls of int in order to keep some haste.

[Voltairus]

Could I trouble someone to confirm or deny my question real quick regarding the state of things straight out of the box so to speak? What I mean by that is, the day of patch 6.2 should I be worried about the new stat priorities or are they centered around having the new set bonuses/trinket combinations?

As an example, should I considering re-enchanting things for haste or enchanting new pieces for haste while using arcane or should I not worry about that at all until I have the set bonuses?

And one other example, if I decided to go with Frost right out of the box since it's my favorite spec. Would I still be close to arcane single target wise or do those changes only occur when having the one trinket that is bugged for icicles? If it would be viable out of the box, is that using the new talent priorities or would Frost Bomb still be the go to until set bonuses/trinket combinations are acquired?

[Daiceman]

Warsong is always better than bleeding hollow, even for the mythic profile (took out the legendary from it). The enchants are pretty much always haste enchants, even in BiS.

That seems odd to me, at least from a usable standpoint. I thought the lion's share of the value of haste comes from the boost heroes get at breakpoints.

So relying on a proc to benefit a proc of a proc, seems a bit off. While I get more casts means more procs, the fact there are breakpoints means static haste giving a bonus attack is what gives it the extra oomph.

Or do the extra procs from from haste overwrite a damage boost from mastery?

[Frosted]

Could I trouble someone to confirm or deny my question real quick regarding the state of things straight out of the box so to speak? What I mean by that is, the day of patch 6.2 should I be worried about the new stat priorities or are they centered around having the new set bonuses/trinket combinations?

As an example, should I considering re-enchanting things for haste or enchanting new pieces for haste while using arcane or should I not worry about that at all until I have the set bonuses?

And one other example, if I decided to go with Frost right out of the box since it's my favorite spec. Would I still be close to arcane single target wise or do those changes only occur when having the one trinket that is bugged for icicles? If it would be viable out of the box, is that using the new talent priorities or would Frost Bomb still be the go to until set bonuses/trinket combinations are acquired?

The shifts in Arcane priority are only with the set bonuses. Before you get t18, they are the same as they are now.

If you go Frost right now you should be ok. It got significantly buffed with all of its core spells being improved.