[Discussion] Patch 6.2 PTR

[Myxel]

If it isn't then we'll probably run 2pc T17 and 2pc T18 as Fire.

[yungg]

fire bonuses, even though they might be strong look pretty boring gameplay wise. nowhere near as interesting as 2x inferno blast.

not liking the looks of the arcane bonuses, pom is just not a very exciting spell to hit, esp. considering it does nothing to address the mana cost of arcane blast, and on top of that, i feel like it'd be really clunky gameplay to have to hit pom with arcane blast that often.

[Chev]

not liking the looks of the arcane bonuses, pom is just not a very exciting spell to hit, esp. considering it does nothing to address the mana cost of arcane blast, and on top of that, i feel like it'd be really clunky gameplay to have to hit pom with arcane blast that often.

I disagree about this not being exciting for Arcane. As you have said this does nothing to address the mana costs of Arcane Blast which means this comes down to "can I afford to use this". E.g. Use on AB x 4 for a higher DEPT spell or at low AC stacks to get through the weaker hitting, slower casting spells quicker but then lose out on the Mana that is regenerated at these stacks (especially AB x 0). On top of that, it also adds a level of game play to be able to make sure PoM is off CD for when PC is up (a bit like judging the SN cd's so that you have 2 charges for PC now). You are also just looking at the use of AB. What about the fact that this will increase mobility through being able to cast RoP instantly and so while moving or that it allows you to cast an AB on the move.

I think the issue is going to be the effect of haste on this ability. E.g, the closer you push to a 1 second cast time (and GCD) the less important being able to instant case AB will be unless in periods of moment.

[Breaktheice]

Interesting thread. Currently not playing WoW but great to see what people think of the upcoming patch.

I'm not entirely sure of Frost's 4 PC. Increasing FoF cap to 4 is good, but I think it's actually very hard to chain 4 Frostbolts over 8 seconds once every 25 seconds without encounter mechanics screwing you over. Even with Ice Floes this is a tough 4 PC to properly pull off, especially with Aspect of the Fox being removed.

Plus FoF bonuses seem to begin favoring some talent options over others too much (Frost Bomb/PC/TV). And Ice Lance doesn't benefit from Icicles so the scaling fizzles out a little. Granted, FoF bonus beats a BF bonus on cleave or AoE scenarios, but still. I think the 2 PC is actually decent but the 4 PC could use a change. I'd rather:

4 PC: Increases Brain Freeze limit to 3. Frostbolts cast during Water Jet now also generate Brain Freeze procs.

^ over the current 4 PC. Or they could just go full out with the summons that Fire/Arcane get and give Frost mage 4 PC a temporary Water Ele that does melee damage (like what the legendary Ms. Jaina Proudmoore does).

Also Frost's ST buff is absurd, especially because the 30% increase is way too much. Even if they pull it down (which they probably will), Frost needs AoE/cleave assistance, not ST assistance. A buff to Frozen Orb would have been better because you use it everywhere (ST/AoE/cleave).

[gameorg]

Also Frost's ST buff is absurd, especially because the 30% increase is way too much. Even if they pull it down (which they probably will), Frost needs AoE/cleave assistance, not ST assistance. A buff to Frozen Orb would have been better because you use it everywhere (ST/AoE/cleave).

which they already did

Frostbolt Launches a bolt of frost at the enemy, causing [ 1 + 193.6% 178.7% of Spell Power ] Frost damage and slowing movement speed by 50% for 15 sec. Mage - Frost Spec. 4% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. 2 sec cast.
Frostfire Bolt Launches a bolt of frostfire at the enemy, causing [ 175.2% [ 161.7% of Spell Power ] Frostfire damage and slowing the target's movement by 40% for 8 sec. 4% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. 2.8 sec cast.

Fire looks quite good. Nevertheless, I don't see how the T18 bonuses can compete against T17 2pc and cleave encounters like Iron Maidens.

not just on multitarget fights, but especially on single target fights with PC. In all honesty, we should ask blizzard to make a inferno blast glyph that provides us the second charge in exchange for a nerf to the generall spell dmg. Double Inferno Blast is not a Setbonus anymore, it became a playstyle.

[Festen]

Fingers of Frost now increases Ice Lance damage by 120% (up from 100%).

Good, keep buffing frost, I want to play frost in the next raid

[Frostfeierqt]

Fingers of Frost now increases Ice Lance damage by 120% (up from 100%).

Good, keep buffing frost, I want to play frost in the next raid

Don't forget the other changes:

Frostfire Bolt now deals 20% (down from 30%) more damage.
Frostbolt now deals 20% (down from 30%) more damage.

[Switch]

Fingers of Frost now increases Ice Lance damage by 120% (up from 100%).

Good, keep buffing frost, I want to play frost in the next raid

Don't forget the other changes:

Frostfire Bolt now deals 20% (down from 30%) more damage.
Frostbolt now deals 20% (down from 30%) more damage.

The FoF-IL buff was the freebie. The buff that offsets the partially reverted buff is the 40% additional damage to BF on our 2 piece.

[Frosted]

Spec comparisons, LIVE vs PTR. Frost numbers include the most recent FB/FFB changes (nerfed from 30% -> 20%) and the FoF buff (100% -> 120%).

I turned off set bonuses for now, since T17 set bonuses are not really relevant anymore and we're still waiting on the Arcane 4pc to be revealed in a way that lets us model it. Once it's in (and we're happy about how the APL handles all the different set bonuses) I'll reintroduce it to the comparison.

[Breaktheice]

The FoF-IL buff was the freebie. The buff that offsets the partially reverted buff is the 40% additional damage to BF on our 2 piece.

Don't think the FoF-IL was a freebie, it was probably to get to the same numbers as with the 30% buff but without breaking the rotation with some talent choices.The FoF-IL buff still lets Frost get to the same numbers they are probably aiming for but it doesn't compromise the rotation with Comet Storm/UM.

A 40% stronger FFB every 25 seconds but 10% weaker FFB and Frostbolts doesn't offset a 10% stronger Frostbolt and FFB all the time.

[Dosseem]

Im glad to see them putting forth effort to get all three specs to a viable position.

[Xei]

I assume Fire is still the best option for cleave fights?

[GriffKentner]

Arcane for single target, Frost for cleave, and Fire for AoE. That's how it's looking

[Killget]

I Imagine the http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=186166/ite ... e-4p-bonus to work like http://www.wowhead.com/spell=165518/ite ... y-4p-bonus but pop an extra http://www.wowhead.com/spell=55342/mirror-image . If this was to be the case, just like the hunters 4 set, where the pets damage is increased with mastery, and how http://www.wowhead.com/spell=55342/mirror-image has its damage effected by Haste, Crit and Multi but not Mastery, this coupled in with the 6% nerf to Mastery's efficacy. Could we see a difference in stat priority?

Also with the http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=186165/ite ... e-2p-bonus effects on http://www.wowhead.com/spell=12043/presence-of-mind , this too could tie into this aswell.

[Komma]

It's too early to guess what the Arcane set bonus does. Up until the very last PTR, the Fire set bonus seemed to suggest that the Phoenix was a pet instead of just a proc. There's no way to tell what Arcane 4T18 is going to do.

That said, a balanced set bonus isn't going to account for a 10% gain. With that in mind, it seems numerically unlikely to change stat priorities for Arcane, even in the worst case.

[Frosted]

Arcane for single target, Frost for cleave, and Fire for AoE. That's how it's looking

Why is it looking that way?

[jjflipped]

Item - Mage T17 Fire 2P Bonus Inferno Blast now has 2 charges. Reduces the cooldown of Inferno Blast by 2 sec.
Item - Mage T18 Arcane 4P Bonus Presence of Mind has a 10% 100% chance to create a Time Anomaly, summoning a random hero through time to assist you in battle for 30 sec. 10 sec.
Item - Mage T18 Fire 2P Bonus Pyroblast has a 25% chance to conjure a Fiery Phoenix, dealing [ 350% of Spell Power ] additional Fire damage to the target.

Obviously they dont want us mixing t17 and t18

[Frosted]

Nothing to really say about the changes. No tuning (lack of FoF buff inclusion is a bit odd). t17 2pc nerf as expected. Still nothing useful about the arcane 4pc pet, unfortunately.

[Komma]

The missing FoF buff is really odd. It's been almost a week since it was announced in patch notes, yeah?

[Frosted]

Yeah, I think last tuesday (or last build) it was added in. Not quite sure why it's not the in spelldata. Does this mean we're multiple cycles behind on the PTR, I guess?