Prophecy of Fear [Megathread]

[Searix]

Does AP need to be popped that early? Can you cast it after the first AM (I don't know if it affects the spell if you cast AP while the missiles are in midair), basically casting it the same time you drop your crystal. You can save a bit of time this way and maybe squeeze in an extra AB at the end.

Just tested it, AM does not benefit from AP if cast while missiles are in midair.

Also AP lasts 15 seconds, crystal lasts 12. The extra 2-3 seconds of AP/AM lines it up pretty well as is

[Caimion]

ABx4, ABx1 planning to AM (another thing im not sure if it's a dps loss or addition, trying not to mana cap).
AP/cools/Nithramus-AM, PC while missiles in midair. Note the missiles hit for 25599+doom novaing crystal for 33279 (non crit/multi)

That's one thing I can speak to, I tried taking out the extra AB (accepting the fact it would mana cap) and it was a DPS loss.

I'm fairly happy with the weaving implementation in the general case, the major work on the opener would be trying to anticipate where MoD will initially proc and changing behaviour based on that guess.

[Searix]

Link to the weaving APL that you like? Or is it the one in the arcane simcraft thread? (Don't think supernova was optimized last I checked among other things)

Edit: It is optimized, which means i can finally do some comparisons, sweeettttt

[Searix]

Added a TL;DR to the bottom of the OP

TL;DR rotation changes:
AM any marked target. Consider adding an AB on crystal then AMing (marked boss) to avoid mana cap
Supernova before it expires (on the crystal) if specced into supernova
Otherwise-normal burn rotation

If mark procs while cooldowns are ready: Pop cooldowns, AM, drop crystal while missiles are in midair.

[Xzaar]

I don't know if this has been asked or tested but does the proc from the felmouth frenzy fish trigger the doom nova explosion?

[Chev]

I don't know if this has been asked or tested but does the proc from the felmouth frenzy fish trigger the doom nova explosion?

I responded to your question in the other thread but no, it does not proc the explosion but it does have a chance to proc the debuf. Only active casts can proc the explosion which the fish is not and why Icicles doesn't proc the explosion either.

[Searix]

got some gear, ilvl 715 now,

did 700k dps on the opener of reaver

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2H ... iew=events" target="_blank

prophecy procced on crystal and i unloaded all possible AMs into it

[Lavok]

got some gear, ilvl 715 now,

did 700k dps on the opener of reaver

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2H ... iew=events" target="_blank

prophecy procced on crystal and i unloaded all possible AMs into it

Here you didn't drop crystal after the first two ABs as per the opener you advocate earlier in the thread?

[Searix]

got some gear, ilvl 715 now,

did 700k dps on the opener of reaver

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2H ... iew=events" target="_blank

prophecy procced on crystal and i unloaded all possible AMs into it

Here you didn't drop crystal after the first two ABs as per the opener you advocate earlier in the thread?

This is something i forgot to mention that i've been intending to. We *should* (i think) drop crystal after ABx2 if prophecy hasnt procced, but it's kinda rare (i'd say ~2/3rds of the time it procs on the first 2 ABs) so sometimes i zone out and get it up to ABx4.

Overall ABx2 strat is still definitely a gray area of 'i'm not sure'. I'm not sure if the ABx2 strat is the best one, but it feels the safest, highest overall long-term damage because mark on crystal is so powerful. I also feel like sometimes (rarely) it procs on the boss from prismatic crystal hitting the boss despite doing the ABx2 strat, which is a dps loss. Maybe ABx4 is the best strat. Maybe we shouldn't pop cooldowns with the ABx2 strat until we stack it up to ABx4. Maybe we should change our strategy (we should) based on if ring is being popped 2 seconds into the fight, or 5-6 seconds.

The answers to all these is still a big 'i dont know'. I guess this is the skill cap for mages right now, figuring out how to use all this information for the most dps. I'm just hoping these logs prompt people to investigate this more with me

[Namo]

I also feel like sometimes (rarely) it procs on the boss from prismatic crystal hitting the boss despite doing the ABx2 strat

That's just a matter of luck, personnaly it's the opposite, the MoD proc rarely on my PC, and my PC explosion on boss proc it on boss like 75% of the time.

For me, it's better to just forget that it exist for your pull and do AB*4, dump missile on boss, PC, spam AB on PC and AM on boss if MoD still up.

I prefer to have a better "worst case DPS" than a better "best case DPS". I don't care about ranking, not this early in HfC at least, so I personnaly prefer consistency than playing the lotterie. Our spec is already so much random and feel really RNG-punishing, so putting your pull on a 50/50% bet is just too much in my opinion.


And, doing big pull in Heroic is cool, but in true progress boss, where the fight will be longer than 2mn, your pull will have less and less impact, and having a better worst case DPS is for me more important.

And to finish, it feel so wrong to put your crystal whitout 4 AC ='(.

[Lavok]

This is purely anecdotal, so shoot me if you don't like it, but personally I had fairly consistent results using the ABx2 opener last night on Fel Lord. Surely you sometimes get a horrible pull where you drop PC and mark goes on boss after hitting the PC, but overall it felt like this was yielded more very strong pulls (with mark going on PC) compared to the more rare occasions where u get the mark on PC after ABx4.

Would surely be interesting to find out what the most optimal way to do it is, but that's for someone with better simc skills to figure out

[Myrdinn]

I dont recall seeing it somewhere, but in both scenarios (MoD on boss or on crystal), when do you fit SNx2 ?

[Searix]

Always Supernova on crystal, usually when Mark of doom has enough time to be hit by supernova, but not arcane missiles

[musclepharm]

If you have the tome trinket, would you still use Supernova on crystal with AP up? If not, when would you use the Supernovas?

(this is assuming on fights where you would take SN over UM)

[Searix]

That's more of a general question. I'm not sure there's a fight where you want to be supernova over UM in mythic because it's thousands of dps loss, but if you did, use supernova to follow up Mark of doom when it's about to expire like I said above, but if you're using it for burn id alternate ab-sn to avoid mana cap and keep mana high

[Searix]

Used Immersius to test different openers for a few hours for PoF testing, if anyone knows of a better spot let me know.

Tried the priority system again in the OP (ABx2, cancel AB3 if no procs & drop crystal)
1: Procced on boss on AB1
2: Procced on boss on AB2
3: Procced on crystal on AB4
4: Procced on crystal on AB3
5: Procced on boss* on AB3 (*cleave from crystal)
6: Procced on boss* on AB3 (*cleave from crystal)
7: Procced on boss on AB2
8: Procced on boss on AB1
9: Procced on boss on AB1
10: Procced on boss on AB1
11: Procced on boss on AB1
12: Procced on boss on AB1
13: Procced on boss on AB1
14: Procced on boss on AB1
15: Procced on boss on AB1
16: Procced on boss on AB1
17: Procced on boss on AB2
18: Procced on boss on AB1
19: Procced on boss on AB1
20: Procced on boss on AB1
21: Procced on boss on AB2
22: Procced on crystal on AB3
23: Procced on boss on AB1
24: Procced on boss on AB1
25: Procced on crystal on AB3
26: Procced on boss on AB1
27: Procced on crystal on AB4
28: Procced on boss on AB1
29: Procced on boss on AB1
30: Procced on boss on AB1

AB-POMAB, if no procs drop crystal:
1: Procced on boss* on AB3 (*cleave from crystal)
2: Procced on boss* on AB3 (*cleave from crystal)
3: Procced on boss on AB1
4: Procced on boss on AB1
5: Procced on boss on AB1
6: Procced on boss on AB1
7: Procced on crystal on AB3
8: Procced on boss* on AB3 (*cleave from crystal)
9: Procced on boss on AB1
10: Procced on crystal on AB3
11: Procced on boss on AB1
12: Procced on boss* on AB5 (*cleave from crystal)
13: Procced on boss on AB1
14: Procced on boss on AB1
15: Procced on boss on AB1
16: Procced on boss on AB1
17: Procced on boss* on AB4 (*cleave from crystal)
18: Procced on crystal on AB3
19: Procced on crystal on AB4
20: Procced on crystal on AB3

10/50 times it procced on crystal (20% of the time)
7/50 times it procced on boss despite doing ABx2 crystal strat (14% of the time, prismatic crystal damage procced it on boss)
33/50 times it procced on first 2 ABs (66% of the time)

Obviously the error is huge with only 50 samples, but the results make sense and were roughly what i was expecting.

Now the other question, the pros/cons of each rotation

(ABx2, cancel AB3 if no procs & drop crystal):
Cancels ~1 second of your opener based on your reaction time, which is 1 less second of potion, possible nithramus disjointing

(AB-POMAB, if no procs drop crystal:)
We lose POM at the end of crystal, but get our 1 second back. That second is a dps gain especially if it better pairs our cooldowns with whatever melee is popping nithramus too early. Losing POM at the end of crystal is definitely a dps loss though.

Looking for thoughts/opinions/other testing about this

[Kirielle]

Curious what you did this testing with. AB spam only after crystal? Felmouth food? Felmouth procs have been blamed for early MoD but it looks like MoD is generally going to proc early anyway.

[Searix]

Interesting thing about felmouth - I did test it for 10 odd pulls. MoD would proc on boss every time so eventually I just gave up on felmouth. Obviously use it if you only do ABx4 strats but if you harbor any hope of proccing on crystal you can't use felmouth.

As for the rotation I used: always ab to 4, varying when I used POM and when I dropped crystal. AMs were saved for MoD

[Searix]

One topic i forgot to mention was real life modeling. There aren't single target fights except for Fel Lord Zakuun, and to a lesser degree Iron Reaver, in every other fight there's at least one or more adds that will be cleaved by PoF during the fight.

Just something to keep in mind when simming

[Domant]

I cannot for the life of me get PoF(N)+Tome(N) to perform better than PoF(N)+Desecrated SI (H). Even when switching to UM when I use tome. Even when I get good RNG (solid Temporal buffs going into crystal etc.) on a fight, I end up doing approximately 20% less DPS. Must be missing something.

With Tome+PoF opener are you supposed to dump all your arcane missiles into the marked boss before using PM. Then burn CDs and PM+AB spam?

Or do you still want mark+PM up at the same time even if mark is on boss. If mark is on boss is AM into marked boss still a priority over AB spam onto crystal?