[7.3+] Arcane Guide - Updated: December 3, 2017

Guides and discussions of all things specific to the Mana Adepts of Azeroth.
davesignal
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 8:47 pm

Re: [7.3+] Arcane Guide - Updated: December 3, 2017

Unread postby davesignal Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:27 pm

Why not precast Mark of Aluneth?

Charged Up is off the GCD, after all.

Mark of Aluneth -> Rune of Power -> Charged Up -> Arcane Power -> Arcane Barrage -> 2PT20 POM -> murder shit.
Daignem
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:15 pm

Re: [7.3+] Arcane Guide - Updated: December 3, 2017

Unread postby Daignem Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:18 pm

Pretty random, but in the video for T21 "Opener" on twitch. I am standing next to you as the undead mage. Raaaandom!

Great guide however. Thanks!
magictricks
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:15 am

Re: [7.3+] Arcane Guide - Updated: December 3, 2017

Unread postby magictricks Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:54 am

Anyone that says CU is trash is trash themselves.

first it gives you a chance to proc everything on the opener, if off the GC'd so can be used to movement, gives you 12% mana back with kilt, is on a 40 second CD so you get a solid chance at proccing your 4pc if you dont go kilt.
Enimonemo
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:37 am

Re: [7.3+] Arcane Guide - Updated: December 3, 2017

Unread postby Enimonemo Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:35 am

How does the opener look like with 4p-T21 and 0p-T20 and no CU? Precast AB, 3xAB, MoA, Rune, AP, AM, PoM, 2xAB etc.? Also, is it worth chaining RoPs during AP? As far as I understand, it is worth casting RoP if I can fit in 3 ABs after while still having AP up.
Waylandir
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:58 pm

Re: [7.3+] Arcane Guide - Updated: December 3, 2017

Unread postby Waylandir Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:53 pm

I tend to agree with Magictricks but for different reasons regarding CU. Arcane to me is more than just Burn and Conserve. It's more about windows of opportunity. Your primary windows are rune of power and lining everything up with those. I want my AM to hit as hard as possible during my windows of opportunity. Trinkets, AP, Lust, 4 Charges and 2pc tier 21, and 3 procs of AM for each RoP. I like to save up 3AM around the 40-50 seconds left on AP cd for another mini burn using CU. Basically I use CU to get 8% damage boost on 2/3 of my RoP usage and maximizing the damage with 3AM.

My opener:
-3s Pot
-2 AB
0 AB,AB,AB,AB,MA,RoP,AP,Trinkets,PoM,Barrage,CU ->then cast as many AM as possible while AP is active.

After AP ends I save AM until about half mana or until I have at least 2 AM and then RoP

Finish burn and Evo before lust ends.

I start saving AM up to 3 when AP has around 40-50 seconds left on cd. Then with 4 charges and 3 AM: RoP,Barrage,CU, AM,AM,AM,Barrage and continue conserve phase as usual.

While there is a delay in ramp up damage with my opener, it does give AM a chance to proc and then maximizes that damage with an extra 8% with 2pc t21.

It may or may not be optimal, but I'm having fun with it and when the stars align, it's really fun. -Way
Abscond
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:47 pm

Re: [7.3+] Arcane Guide - Updated: December 3, 2017

Unread postby Abscond Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:58 pm

Even if the stars align you're losing so much damage. On top of waiting so long to burst 99% of the time you're going to have to move out of your rune because you got a mechanic.
Waylandir
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:58 pm

Re: [7.3+] Arcane Guide - Updated: December 3, 2017

Unread postby Waylandir Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:51 pm

I think it goes without saying that if you are playing an arcane mage, you have to not only understand the mechanics but watch boss ability timers in order to safely place RoP. It does not always work out but lets just say for the sake of argument that we are all masters of RoP and we never have to move out of it for a mechanic. Where else would I be losing damage with my rotation? Please explain. Thanks!
Abscond
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:47 pm

Re: [7.3+] Arcane Guide - Updated: December 3, 2017

Unread postby Abscond Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:18 pm

Since I don't know what legendaries you run it may be different but this is with double ring, 4/2, and owl.
Arcane opener with charged up is just a tiny bit different than normal.

Pot
MoA
Rune
Arcane macro( AP, Charged up, trinkets, racials ect)
Barrage
PoM
(Here's where you need to get a feel for arcane)
If you got 2 AM Procs you're at a crossroads you can fish with your two Insta blasts to get 3 procs or you can drop the missles.
In your burst YOU SHOULD ALWAYS HOLD MISSLES UNTIL AT LEAST 2 TO FISH FOR A RULE OF THREES PROCS (managing and abusing the spell continuation bug is a massive damage increase)
If you got reasonable rng you have enough time to dump missles at least twice in your first rune.
2nd Rune and do the same as above.
Try to oom on a blast to proc 4p for Evo.
Depending on how unlucky or lucky you are if lust is still up you can probably blast until around 70% mana and expend procs while its up. When list ends move into conserve.

Now my conserve since I use owl is a bit different.
Normally blasting until 2-3 stacks unless I have wisdom. Wisdom is gods gift.
You can go to 4 with wisdom with double ring.
After getting the most blasts I can while staying above 30-35% I dump missles.
Mini burst with owl
You want to go in with 4 charges
MoA
Rune
Barrage
PoM
Blasts (depending on AM procs)
AM
Barrage while rune is still up
Charged up
Blast a few times
AM Procs
Barrage
Return to normal conserve.

With kilt opener is
MoA
Rune
Arcane macro
Pom
Then what I explained previously.
Mini bursts don't exist with pants, you should always save mark for AP if you do not use owl.
Waylandir
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:58 pm

Re: [7.3+] Arcane Guide - Updated: December 3, 2017

Unread postby Waylandir Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:20 pm

Thanks for the write up! Much appreciated!!

I don't have a good owl or 2pc (switched back to my mage at the end of ToS). I'm also still fishing for talent ring and the kilt (god I love the legendary system). So I don't know when I will be able to run your setup, but it looks pretty great. Thanks again for taking the time to write that up. -Way
Vinokiikari
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:47 am

Re: [7.3+] Arcane Guide - Updated: December 3, 2017

Unread postby Vinokiikari Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:53 am

Since I don't know what legendaries you run it may be different but this is with double ring, 4/2, and owl.
Arcane opener with charged up is just a tiny bit different than normal.

Pot
MoA
Rune
Arcane macro( AP, Charged up, trinkets, racials ect)
Barrage
PoM
(Here's where you need to get a feel for arcane)
If you got 2 AM Procs you're at a crossroads you can fish with your two Insta blasts to get 3 procs or you can drop the missles.
In your burst YOU SHOULD ALWAYS HOLD MISSLES UNTIL AT LEAST 2 TO FISH FOR A RULE OF THREES PROCS (managing and abusing the spell continuation bug is a massive damage increase)
If you got reasonable rng you have enough time to dump missles at least twice in your first rune.
2nd Rune and do the same as above.
Try to oom on a blast to proc 4p for Evo.
Depending on how unlucky or lucky you are if lust is still up you can probably blast until around 70% mana and expend procs while its up. When list ends move into conserve.

Now my conserve since I use owl is a bit different.
Normally blasting until 2-3 stacks unless I have wisdom. Wisdom is gods gift.
You can go to 4 with wisdom with double ring.
After getting the most blasts I can while staying above 30-35% I dump missles.
Mini burst with owl
You want to go in with 4 charges
MoA
Rune
Barrage
PoM
Blasts (depending on AM procs)
AM
Barrage while rune is still up
Charged up
Blast a few times
AM Procs
Barrage
Return to normal conserve.

With kilt opener is
MoA
Rune
Arcane macro
Pom
Then what I explained previously.
Mini bursts don't exist with pants, you should always save mark for AP if you do not use owl.
1.So basically you are not running owl if going with kilt?
Been simming more than i should, 930 Owl vs. 960 Terminus having 3k difference in owls advantage. 945 socketed ACI (Acrid Catalyst Injector) in bags also, sims way lower. Been running Terminus because of the 90sec CD and lining up perfectly with AP burns.
Trinket lists give a 7k difference, gear applies (still got low crit, haste and versa seem ok)
How are ppl using Owl with kilt? Saving it up for CDs or burning off CD?


2. Best opener with kilt and owl/terminus + pantheon and tier 21 4-set?

For several nights reading up on warcraftlogs for burning parts on Varimathras (patchwerk).
Running 4+0 tiers and kilt, as most of the logs that i have been looking for.
Still keep seeing mostly opener like:
4x AB
MoA
RoP
Barrage
Arcane macro (AP, CU, Trinket, Prolonged and PoM)
Burn your nuts off!

On the otherside some ppl still do solid logs with Precast MoA -> RoP -> Arcane macro (AP, CU, Trinket, Prolonged and PoM) etc. while wearing kilt.

Ofc 8% for 8sec on burning seems solid, but is the time lost while casting ABs worth it compared to starting off straight away and possibly losing few casts from your burn at the end of the fight? To me it sounds like it is smarter to go for the 4 casts before MoA on pull. Any other opinions?

3. How about opener with double ring, 4+2 and pantheon + owl? What would change between the openers?

4. Any idea on Brunnestud running 935 ACI?
975 Terminus on the other pocket makes sense but 11/11m arcane mage without owl or pantheon seems weird to me.
Dikembe
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:40 pm

Re: [7.3+] Arcane Guide - Updated: December 3, 2017

Unread postby Dikembe Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:27 pm

Anyone that says CU is trash is trash themselves.

first it gives you a chance to proc everything on the opener, if off the GC'd so can be used to movement, gives you 12% mana back with kilt, is on a 40 second CD so you get a solid chance at proccing your 4pc if you dont go kilt.
If you have actual data to support your claims that it isn't, I'm all ears.

Hint: you probably don't.
magictricks
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:15 am

Re: [7.3+] Arcane Guide - Updated: December 3, 2017

Unread postby magictricks Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:39 am

Anyone that says CU is trash is trash themselves.

first it gives you a chance to proc everything on the opener, if off the GC'd so can be used to movement, gives you 12% mana back with kilt, is on a 40 second CD so you get a solid chance at proccing your 4pc if you dont go kilt.
If you have actual data to support your claims that it isn't, I'm all ears.

Hint: you probably don't.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/1 ... pec=Arcane

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/1 ... pec=Arcane

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/1 ... pec=Arcane

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/1 ... pec=Arcane

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/1 ... pec=Arcane

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/1 ... pec=Arcane

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/1 ... pec=Arcane

Any single target fight is going to be CU, infact there are zero aggramar parses with ress.

Logs don't lie.
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Dikembe
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:40 pm

Re: [7.3+] Arcane Guide - Updated: December 3, 2017

Unread postby Dikembe Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:55 am

Well, take Charged Up if you want then, but I have absolutely zero recommendations on how it "should" be used. I have no idea how to use it in raid because I don't play this spec. This guide's always been limited in scope due to this and its reliance on simulated DPS. All I can tell you is that I tried every possible way to make Charged Up be worth a fuck, including everything you've mentioned, and none of it actually translated into a DPS increase.
Ramalama
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:51 am

Re: [7.3+] Arcane Guide - Updated: December 3, 2017

Unread postby Ramalama Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:07 am

For those of you reporting Charged Up not being a DPS increase (in sims or in practice), are you sure it's not just because you're already using 2P T20 (for the similar functionality)?

Without T20, I show about a 45k DPS increase with Charged Up using talent compare on Raidbots for a 5 minute single target Patchwerk using the default APL.

It's pretty obvious why it's a single target DPS increase as well, getting to take advantage of both 2P and 4P T21 right before a burn, as well as additional flexibility in setting up an off-burn RoP. Compared with Resonance which is going to be about a 1-1.5% increase in single target damage.

My guess is those not seeing a benefit of Charged Up are already using T20 in a similar way. And yes, they're fairly redundant so I imagine the gap is at the very least a lot smaller. For those who don't use T20 (no access, huge ilvl gap, using legs, or have graduated past it with mythic T21), I'd definitely recommend it for single target. Things get a lot closer if it's a multi-target fight, or if you want a one size fits all talent setup for the whole zone.

And yeah, for those looking for the opener with Charged Up and no T20, it's 4x Blast, MoA, RoP, AP (+trinkets, Berserking, etc), Barrage, Charged Up, then in to regular Missiles and Blasts. I only mention it because it took me a while to find when researching after I first rolled. You can get similar mini burns in your off cycle by storing up a couple charges of AM, then RoP, Barrage, Charged Up and into Missiles and 4-charge Blasts.
wonderbread
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:10 am

Re: [7.3+] Arcane Guide - Updated: December 3, 2017

Unread postby wonderbread Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:26 am

Question, the #1 trinket in the guide is Tarnished Sentinel Medallion, yet it gives haste, which seems to be balls. is the effect just so good it doesn't matter?
rab
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:38 pm

Re: [7.3+] Arcane Guide - Updated: December 3, 2017

Unread postby rab Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:03 pm

Sentinel Medallion has Mastery. Maybe i am misunderstanding you, or you are wrong ^^
but nevertheless: yes, the use effect is the big part of this trinket

now i have a question on my own regarding charged up etc.
The only two things i can activley play around with for the T21 2piece bonus are charged up and t20 2piece bonus, right? So if i have neither (because of choice) it only gets kind of a "passive", or am i missing anything? (i just got back to wow/arcanemage)
wonderbread
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:10 am

Re: [7.3+] Arcane Guide - Updated: December 3, 2017

Unread postby wonderbread Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:33 pm

Sentinel Medallion has Mastery. Maybe i am misunderstanding you, or you are wrong ^^
but nevertheless: yes, the use effect is the big part of this trinket

now i have a question on my own regarding charged up etc.
The only two things i can activley play around with for the T21 2piece bonus are charged up and t20 2piece bonus, right? So if i have neither (because of choice) it only gets kind of a "passive", or am i missing anything? (i just got back to wow/arcanemage)
sorry yeah, meant mastery. yeah I only use CU because of t21, don't see why it would offer much help otherwise
Abscond
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:47 pm

Re: [7.3+] Arcane Guide - Updated: December 3, 2017

Unread postby Abscond Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:52 pm

Sentinel Medallion has Mastery. Maybe i am misunderstanding you, or you are wrong ^^
but nevertheless: yes, the use effect is the big part of this trinket

now i have a question on my own regarding charged up etc.
The only two things i can activley play around with for the T21 2piece bonus are charged up and t20 2piece bonus, right? So if i have neither (because of choice) it only gets kind of a "passive", or am i missing anything? (i just got back to wow/arcanemage)
I'm sure all the good mages go on Reddit lUl.
The only reason you run charged up is for the extra proc chance on t21 on opener. And when you aren't running t20 2p CU takes the place of pom with 2p by giving you full charges.
And there is no choice you should always be using t21 4p
Mastery is also not a bad stat for sets without pants
sorry yeah, meant mastery. yeah I only use CU because of t21, don't see why it would offer much help otherwise
The help it offers its taking the place of t20 2p giving you a more fluid burn/burst phase. Resonance pulls ahead on an 3 targets+
Schneeze
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:45 pm

Re: [7.3+] Arcane Guide - Updated: December 3, 2017

Unread postby Schneeze Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:33 pm

Now my conserve since I use owl is a bit different.
Normally blasting until 2-3 stacks unless I have wisdom. Wisdom is gods gift.
You can go to 4 with wisdom with double ring.
After getting the most blasts I can while staying above 30-35% I dump missles.
Mini burst with owl
You want to go in with 4 charges
MoA
Rune
Barrage
PoM
Blasts (depending on AM procs)
AM
Barrage while rune is still up
Charged up
Blast a few times
AM Procs
Barrage
Return to normal conserve.
Do you have any logs which I can peruse with this in action?
Abscond
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:47 pm

Re: [7.3+] Arcane Guide - Updated: December 3, 2017

Unread postby Abscond Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:35 am

Now my conserve since I use owl is a bit different.
Normally blasting until 2-3 stacks unless I have wisdom. Wisdom is gods gift.
You can go to 4 with wisdom with double ring.
After getting the most blasts I can while staying above 30-35% I dump missles.
Mini burst with owl
You want to go in with 4 charges
MoA
Rune
Barrage
PoM
Blasts (depending on AM procs)
AM
Barrage while rune is still up
Charged up
Blast a few times
AM Procs
Barrage
Return to normal conserve.
Do you have any logs which I can peruse with this in action?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/30148152
Sometimes I upload kills here also https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdn6oX ... _6gllXslMQ

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