[SimC] WoD Arcane SimC Discussion

[Komma]

Instead pushed a variant of the line - the issue was that at high haste, AB capping GCD meant that mana cost estimations were off. New line is

actions.burn+=/evocation,interrupt_if=mana.pct>100-10%spell_haste,if=target.time_to_die>10&mana.pct<30+2.5*active_enemies*(9-active_enemies)

[Lakh]

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# Regular burn with evocation actions.init_burn=start_burn_phase,if=buff.arcane_charge.stack>=4&(cooldown.prismatic_crystal.up|!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled)&(cooldown.arcane_power.up|(glyph.arcane_power.enabled&cooldown.arcane_power.remains>60))&(cooldown.evocation.remains-2*buff.arcane_missiles.stack*spell_haste-gcd.max*talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled)*0.75*(1-0.1*(cooldown.arcane_power.remains<5))*(1-0.1*(talent.nether_tempest.enabled|talent.supernova.enabled))*(10%action.arcane_blast.execute_time)<mana.pct-20-2.5*active_enemies*(9-active_enemies)+(cooldown.evocation.remains*1.8%spell_haste)

The line actually makes a lot of logical sense to me, but it'll take a bit of explaining for folks to understand why it works. Long story short, it's an estimation of mana consumption versus mana regeneration, using the time remaining on evocation's CD.

I'm trying to follow the monster-conditional but (surprise) you've lost me.

The first three AND instructions are simple enough (must be 4 charges, crystal available-or-untalented, AP available-or-at-glyphed-small-burn-stage). It's the fourth check that confuses me.

The start of fourth check with the evocation timer is straightforward - take the time til Evo's available & exclude the time you'll spend casting current Missile procs & Prismatic Crystal.

But then that first Evo timer is multiplied by a bunch of slightly odd numbers, before another Evo timer is added to the other side of the overall (in)equation, and I get thoroughly lost.

- What does the 0.75 (75%?) have to do with the price of fish?
- If we've previously insisted that Arcane Power is available-or-way-away, why do we have a conditional checking if AP is <5 seconds away from usable? It seems like you could just fix that condition at 0.9, which means you could actually make the earlier 0.75 into 0.675. The only way I see it kicking in would be with a ridiculously extended Overpowered sequence or a custom enemies sim with a boss & 5+ low health adds, but only *if* arcane power still active would trigger the earlier cooldown.up (would it? I'm honestly not sure)
- I assume the Supernova/Tempest bit is just roughly allowing for time spent casting those spells? Wouldn't it be theoretically possible to get a fair estimate of the exact number of times we'll actually cast them & change this number to one based off multiples of gcd.max, then shift it back into the cooldown.evocation.remains section? Admittedly Nether Tempest having a mana cost & Supernova being free would mess things around fractionally.
- And all the prior is multiplied by the number of AB casts you can fit into 10 seconds. My best guess Is that this meant to account for AB expenditure vs passive regeneration from haste?

Then you get over to the other side of that check...

- The parabolic equation being subtracted from current mana% I get. It's an estimated curve, but fair enough.
- I don't get the evocation on the right side. For starters, you could shift it back over to the left & simplify the equation by keeping all the cooldown.evocation.remains on the one side, but even aside from that I don't get the reasoning behind the 1.8

Thanks in advance for any clarifications

[Komma]

I'm glad someone asked! Starting with where it starts to seem odd:

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0.75

AM has a 30% proc rate, and a base 2 second cast time. This means for 10 Arcane Blasts at 1.8 sec each (4 Arcane charges), 3 Arcane missiles are casted. ie.
(10 * 1.8) / (10 * 1.8 + 3 * 2) = 75% of your time is spent casting Arcane Blasts. The rest of the time is spent casting AM, which does not consume any mana. That is where "0.75" comes from.

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(1-0.1*(cooldown.arcane_power.remains<5))

Essentially this just refers to Arcane Power's 10% mana reduction due to the perk. I guess it might make sense to gate it by level, but lower level sims have never been a priority. The reason this line is needed, is to detect glyphed AP odd numbered burns, which do not have the mana reduction.

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(1-0.1*(talent.nether_tempest.enabled|talent.supernova.enabled))

The brilliant part about NT and SN is that you cast both at roughly the same frequency. NT costs only 0.8% mana, 1 GCD every 12 seconds. SN is mana free, 2 GCD every 25 seconds. A simplified estimate is that each of them replace roughly 10% of your AB casting time. Therefore, if either talent is selected, reduce the mana consumption rate by another 10%.

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(10%action.arcane_blast.execute_time)

This is of course, 10% mana divided by the execution time of Arcane Blast - the mana usage per second of AB4 spam.

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(cooldown.evocation.remains*1.8%spell_haste)

This is the passive regen until evocation is used - 1.8% base mana per second, multiplied by haste due to nether attunement.

The whole expression denotes the following comparison:

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time_spent_casting_arcane_blast * mana_expended_by_arcane_blast_per_second < current_mana_level - target_mana_level + mana_regen_until_evocation

Or in other words, "mana spent should be less than mana you plan to spend until Evocation". It estimates how early you should start using Arcane Blast without worrying about Evocation still being on cooldown.

The bad news of course, is that this doesn't really work with the new Archimonde trinket, nor does it account for AP's limited duration. That will require modifications - to be added later!

[Preheat]

Was running multi-target sims to check how many targets it would take to make fire overtake arcane. I found out that the magebot on 4 targets was doing way more damage than on 5 targets due to Mark of Doom.

I made a few changes and am seeing a huge gain:

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actions+=/call_action_list,name=aoe,if=active_enemies>=10

changed this to an arbitrary number so that the mage would stay away from arcane explosion etc.

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actions.conserve+=/arcane_missiles,if=buff.arcane_missiles.react>=1&debuff.mark_of_doom.remains>travel_time&active_enemies>=3

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actions.burn+=/arcane_missiles,if=buff.arcane_missiles.react>=1&debuff.mark_of_doom.remains>travel_time&active_enemies>=3

3 targets was also arbitrary, will need to test further to get a better read.

Here are the results for 5 target:




note: non UM profiles use Desecrated Shadowmoon Insignia instead of Tome

You can see that arcane is right behind fire. I'm sure with further optimization it can go even higher.

[Frosted]

I've also spent a quick moment looking into using AM during conserve when mark of doom is up on single target fight.

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151749 100.0% Raid 76002 50.1% Mage_Arcane_T18H_AM_dump 75746 49.9% Mage_Arcane_T18H

Seems like a DPS gain. The mark of doom proc + AM is just too much damage to ignore it seems.

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actions.conserve=call_action_list,name=cooldowns,if=target.time_to_die<15 actions.conserve+=/arcane_missiles,if=buff.arcane_missiles.react=3|(talent.overpowered.enabled&buff.arcane_power.up&buff.arcane_power.remains<action.arcane_blast.execute_time) actions.conserve+=/arcane_missiles,if=set_bonus.tier17_4pc&buff.arcane_instability.react&buff.arcane_instability.remains<action.arcane_blast.execute_time actions.conserve+=/nether_tempest,cycle_targets=1,if=target!=pet.prismatic_crystal&buff.arcane_charge.stack=4&(active_dot.nether_tempest=0|(ticking&remains<3.6)) actions.conserve+=/supernova,if=target.time_to_die<8|(charges=2&(buff.arcane_power.up|!cooldown.arcane_power.up)&(!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled|cooldown.prismatic_crystal.remains>8)) actions.conserve+=/arcane_orb,if=buff.arcane_charge.stack<2 actions.conserve+=/presence_of_mind,if=mana.pct>96&(!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled|!cooldown.prismatic_crystal.up) actions.conserve+=/arcane_missiles,if=debuff.mark_of_doom.remains>travel_time actions.conserve+=/arcane_blast,if=buff.arcane_charge.stack=4&mana.pct>93 actions.conserve+=/arcane_barrage,if=talent.arcane_orb.enabled&active_enemies>=3&buff.arcane_charge.stack=4&(cooldown.arcane_orb.remains<gcd.max|prev_gcd.arcane_orb) actions.conserve+=/arcane_missiles,if=buff.arcane_charge.stack=4&(!talent.overpowered.enabled|cooldown.arcane_power.remains>10*spell_haste) actions.conserve+=/supernova,if=mana.pct<96&(buff.arcane_missiles.stack<2|buff.arcane_charge.stack=4)&(buff.arcane_power.up|(charges=1&cooldown.arcane_power.remains>recharge_time))&(!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled|current_target=pet.prismatic_crystal|(charges=1&cooldown.prismatic_crystal.remains>recharge_time+8)) actions.conserve+=/nether_tempest,cycle_targets=1,if=target!=pet.prismatic_crystal&buff.arcane_charge.stack=4&(active_dot.nether_tempest=0|(ticking&remains<(10-3*talent.arcane_orb.enabled)*spell_haste)) actions.conserve+=/arcane_barrage,if=buff.arcane_charge.stack=4 actions.conserve+=/presence_of_mind,if=buff.arcane_charge.stack<2&mana.pct>93 actions.conserve+=/arcane_blast actions.conserve+=/arcane_barrage

I separated out the line I added. So it'll use AM at any point it sees the mark of doom during conserve, above everything else.

[Caimion]

I had two working theories that I wanted to evaluate regarding PC usage - first, whether it was worth delaying PC if there is a mark of doom up on the boss, and second, whether it was worth trying to play around the Temporal Power buff for PC.

At first glance, it seems like the answer to both questions is yes. However, I did a little more digging and it seems like Tome is the real culprit. My current guess is that getting rid of AMs before you PC (when combined with the default crystal sequence logic) maximizes use of the Tome by casting constant ABs for the life of your crystal without worrying about munching AM procs. For the No_Tome sims I substituted Insignia, and this is the T18_Heroic profile.



I tested with T18 bonuses disabled and had similar results, so Temporal Power is not the cause.



All changes were within the init_crystal action list, so here's the entirety of that action list for the two alternative scenarios.

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name=Dump_All_AMs_Before_PC # Conditions for initiating Prismatic Crystal actions.init_crystal=call_action_list,name=conserve,if=buff.arcane_charge.stack<4 actions.init_crystal+=/arcane_missiles,if=buff.arcane_missiles.react actions.init_crystal+=/prismatic_crystal

Here's the one that's conditional on a mark of doom proc.

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name=AMs_Before_PC_if_PoF_Proc # Conditions for initiating Prismatic Crystal actions.init_crystal=call_action_list,name=conserve,if=buff.arcane_charge.stack<4 actions.init_crystal=call_action_list,name=conserve,if=buff.arcane_missiles.react&debuff.mark_of_doom.remains>2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20) actions.init_crystal+=/prismatic_crystal

[Frosted]

I've taken your idea and extended it a bit further.

First, I've added a conditional onto the AM dump before PC line to ensure it doesn't happen unless you have the Tome trinket (which is necessary for the default APL since it makes no assumptions about what trinkets you run).

Second, I've combined the MoD delay logic with the AM dump logic. The combination of the two results in the best DPS so far. This will both ensure that you do not waste an MoD proc, and ensure that you dump all AMs prior to PC - where you then proceed to AP and spam away with arcane blast.

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# Conditions for initiating Prismatic Crystal actions.init_crystal=call_action_list,name=conserve,if=buff.arcane_charge.stack<4|(buff.arcane_missiles.react&debuff.mark_of_doom.remains>2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20)) actions.init_crystal+=/arcane_missiles,if=buff.arcane_missiles.react&t18_class_trinket actions.init_crystal+=/prismatic_crystal

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DPS Ranking: 230389 100.0% Raid 77140 33.5% Mage_Arcane_T18H_AM_Dump_MoD_Delay 76987 33.4% Mage_Arcane_T18H_AM_Dump 76262 33.1% Mage_Arcane_T18H

I've gone ahead and done raid sims with all arcane talents, and this seems to be a generalizable strategy for all arcane set ups - always resulting in DPS gains over the current default APL.

I also checked out MoD-PC delays and AM dumping if you are just running PoF and a stat proc trinket.

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50k iterations. 73767 33.4% Mage_Arcane_T18H_AM_Dump_MoD_Delay 73666 33.3% Mage_Arcane_T18H 73643 33.3% Mage_Arcane_T18H_AM_Dump

The AM dump/baseline profile are within error (and the AM dump here isn't even working, as it requires the Tome trinket as I stated above). The MoD delay of PC is still worth, even with PC. It's just a much, much smaller gain due to delaying PC and losing uptime on the stat proc trinket for it.

These were all done with the default Arcane APL gear, and either Tome+PoF, or PoF+Insignia.

I have commit these changes into the SimC repo, so they should be in the next nightly. https://code.google.com/p/simulationcra ... e85cb34881" target="_blank

There is still the question of weaving on/off PC, or using PC as just a means to get a bunch of doom nova explosions that still needs to be investigated.

[Frosted]

We've investigated and found that Unstable Magic was inappropriately procing Arcane Missiles. This was causing UM profiles by overperform by about ~2.5% on average in the sim.

The fix should be in the next nightly build. Thanks for keeping the sim honest

[Lavok]

We've investigated and found that Unstable Magic was inappropriately procing Arcane Missiles. This was causing UM profiles by overperform by about ~2.5% on average in the sim.

The fix should be in the next nightly build. Thanks for keeping the sim honest

Slightly off topic, but do you have any idea when the next release build with a mac version is going to be released?

[Searix]

Thanks for the help Frosted

There is still the question of weaving on/off PC, or using PC as just a means to get a bunch of doom nova explosions that still needs to be investigated.

In regards to this i can give you psuedo-code from the General Discussion thread. Raid time is sneaking up on me and i'm incredibly mediocre at simcraft's coding.

First, this should all be dps gains assuming No_Tome.

Opener:
Sometimes Mark of Doom procs on the first cast, sometimes it procs a few ABs in. Not sure how this should be modeled but this leads to a priority system:

If(MoD procs on first 2 ABs), then ABx2, cooldowns (AP, berserking etc.), Arcane Missiles, PC as missiles land, target PC, Supernova (x2 if mark is still on boss), init.burn
If(MoD noproc on first 2 ABs), then PC, init.burn (we're hoping MoD procs on crystal)

Note how powerful #2 was in this log. Something to the tune of 750k doom nova damage on the opener (at the cost of less arcane blasts)

Mid attempt:
If(MoD has enough time left for arcane missiles to land and PC/AP is up): cooldowns (AP, berserking, etc.), Arcane Missiles, PC as missiles land, target PC, Supernova (x2 if mark is still on boss), init.burn

Note: MoD time remaining is erratic. Sometimes just lay PC and pop Supernova if that's all you can fit in. Sometimes fit an extra AM in if it procs just as PC/AP come up

Hope this helps

[Smaiki]

Is there anything wrong with the PoF trinket in the latest version from 09-Jul-2015 03:07?
Why do I sim 96k ST DPS with itemlvl 711.00 using Tome/PoF, T18pc4? (Import EU-Eredar, Smaiki)
Mark of Dooms has an uptime of ~ 80% and deals 28% of the total damage.




You may delete this post if it's out of date.

[Myrdinn]

Fixed in the last commit : rppm bug !

[Caimion]

I think I managed to get a start on PC Weaving functionality in the APL. It's based on Searix's suggested algorithm but ignoring the opener-specific stuff (for now) since I wanted a working general case first.

Currently, Robomage dumps all AMs before dropping crystal. That works fine if there's no MoD up, but if there is a MoD up napkin math suggests that we should drop PC and then continue to dump missiles into the boss. This was relatively straightforward to implement into the init_crystal action list.

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# Drop Crystal if AMs are in-flight towards a Mark of Doom target actions.init_crystal+=/prismatic_crystal,if=action.arcane_missiles.in_flight&debuff.mark_of_doom.remains>2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20)) # Pop Cooldowns before AM-ing a Mark of Doom target actions.init_crystal=call_action_list,name=cooldowns,if=buff.arcane_missiles.react&debuff.mark_of_doom.remains>2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20) # Rest of APL unchanged actions.init_crystal=call_action_list,name=conserve,if=buff.arcane_charge.stack<4|(buff.arcane_missiles.react&debuff.mark_of_doom.remains>2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20)) actions.init_crystal+=/arcane_missiles,if=buff.arcane_missiles.react&t18_class_trinket actions.init_crystal+=/prismatic_crystal

If something has Mark of Doom while Crystal is active, use available AMs on that target rather than PC. Continue to AB the Crystal.

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# Actions while Prismatic Crystal is active actions.crystal_sequence=call_action_list,name=cooldowns actions.crystal_sequence+=/nether_tempest,if=buff.arcane_charge.stack=4&!ticking&pet.prismatic_crystal.remains>8 actions.crystal_sequence+=/supernova,if=mana.pct<96 actions.crystal_sequence+=/presence_of_mind,if=cooldown.cold_snap.up|pet.prismatic_crystal.remains<2*spell_haste #If AM is available, cycle targets for a MoD target actions.crystal_sequence+=/arcane_missiles,cycle_targets=1,if=debuff.mark_of_doom.remains>2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20) #Rest of APL unchanged actions.crystal_sequence+=/arcane_blast,if=buff.arcane_charge.stack=4&mana.pct>93&pet.prismatic_crystal.remains>cast_time actions.crystal_sequence+=/arcane_missiles,if=pet.prismatic_crystal.remains>2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20) actions.crystal_sequence+=/supernova,if=pet.prismatic_crystal.remains<2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20) actions.crystal_sequence+=/choose_target,if=pet.prismatic_crystal.remains<action.arcane_blast.cast_time&buff.presence_of_mind.down actions.crystal_sequence+=/arcane_blast

These changes manage to eke out ~500 dps.

[taroboba]

Does the 6.2.2 build that was released on 7/13 include the UM correction? I ran sims on it and UM is still better but by a smaller margin (1k).

[Komma]

Does the 6.2.2 build that was released on 7/13 include the UM correction?

Yes.

[Searix]

I think I managed to get a start on PC Weaving functionality in the APL.

-snip-

Something seems wrong with the code, a lot of it isn't firing off

[Smaiki]

Are these things already implemented? http://altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1748" target="_blank
I saw there was a fix for the ring AoE no longer being amplified by PC 30hrs ago, but what's the state of the other points especially #4 double dip?

PS: I guess we all knew that #4 had to be fixed

[Frosted]

The ring is not currently double dipping in SimC.

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[10:51:46] <Frosted> mmm [10:51:47] <Frosted> komma [10:51:53] <Frosted> Are you certain PC is double dipping in SimC? [10:52:15] <Frosted> I'm certain that it currently is not. [10:53:] <Frosted> http://i.imgur.com/Iyr4MaT.png [10:53:21] <Frosted> leads to [10:53:33] <Frosted> http://i.imgur.com/nPD2rGC.png [10:53:36] <Frosted> which is not double dipping. [10:54:47] <Frosted> it's working properly on multiple targets too [10:55:10] <Frosted> You either fixed it unintentionally with your last commit, or it never was double dipping in the first place. [10:55:24] <Frosted> http://pastebin.com/YPXvhmTQ is the profile I used to test.

[Komma]

2 days ago, when aggixx fixed it so stagger damage didn't contribute to the ring, it looks like he unintentionally fixed PC's double dipping as well.

https://code.google.com/p/simulationcra ... 10993164f0" target="_blank

Explosion damage tallying is now limited to damage on enemies, and PC is not marked as an enemy. I guess it works!

[Caimion]

I think I managed to get a start on PC Weaving functionality in the APL.

-snip-

Something seems wrong with the code, a lot of it isn't firing off

Thanks, user syntax error Revisions below.

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# Conditions for initiating Prismatic Crystal # New Lines actions.init_crystal=call_action_list,name=cooldowns,if=buff.arcane_missiles.react&debuff.mark_of_doom.remains>2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20) actions.init_crystal+=/prismatic_crystal,if=action.arcane_missiles_tick.in_flight&debuff.mark_of_doom.remains>2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20) #Old APL Unchanged actions.init_crystal+=/call_action_list,name=conserve,if=buff.arcane_charge.stack<4|(buff.arcane_missiles.react&debuff.mark_of_doom.remains>2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20)) actions.init_crystal+=/arcane_missiles,if=buff.arcane_missiles.react&t18_class_trinket actions.init_crystal+=/prismatic_crystal

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# Actions while Prismatic Crystal is active actions.crystal_sequence=call_action_list,name=cooldowns actions.crystal_sequence+=/nether_tempest,if=buff.arcane_charge.stack=4&!ticking&pet.prismatic_crystal.remains>8 actions.crystal_sequence+=/supernova,if=mana.pct<96 actions.crystal_sequence+=/presence_of_mind,if=cooldown.cold_snap.up|pet.prismatic_crystal.remains<2*spell_haste #New Line actions.crystal_sequence+=/arcane_missiles,cycle_targets=1,if=debuff.mark_of_doom.remains>2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20) actions.crystal_sequence+=/arcane_blast,if=buff.arcane_charge.stack=4&mana.pct>93&pet.prismatic_crystal.remains>cast_time actions.crystal_sequence+=/arcane_missiles,if=pet.prismatic_crystal.remains>2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20) actions.crystal_sequence+=/supernova,if=pet.prismatic_crystal.remains<2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20) actions.crystal_sequence+=/choose_target,if=pet.prismatic_crystal.remains<action.arcane_blast.cast_time&buff.presence_of_mind.down actions.crystal_sequence+=/arcane_blast