Arcane Orb usage

[Songette]

The Arcane Orb talent is still a bit odd for me. Assuming I'm in the burn phase, should I use it on cooldown? Should I save it for when I need the charges? If I'm in the conserve phase and with 4 AC when it comes off cooldown, should I delay it?

Thank you very much in advance :3

[smartys]

In the conserve Phase you should delay it until you reset your charges and use it the right away to avoid casting those low charge AB's.

In the Burn Phase I am not completely certain if there is a general rule so I'd answer with examples:

1. Mar'gok if you sit on 4 charges and AO comes of CD you definitely want to shoot it into the adds, since this will most likely give you 3 AM proccs. Same holds true for Ko'ragh with the adds

2. Single/cleave like Brackenspore/twin ogron I'd say its a risk. Sure if it produces AM proccs from the hits it might be a dmg gain. But I would rather go for the Save way. Delay it, use it afte Evo and get 3 charges right away and some AM proccs

[Chev]

1. Mar'gok if you sit on 4 charges and AO comes of CD you definitely want to shoot it into the adds, since this will most likely give you 3 AM proccs. Same holds true for Ko'ragh with the adds

If there are 3+ adds, I let of a barrage into the adds and then fire the Orb at them and this usually gets me to 4 x AC and 3 x AM with one GCD.

When using for single target burn, I usually hold on to it and use it to get over the low AC charges after Evo. If I remember, and it is quite tomorrow, I will try running some sims to see if it is better to hold or use on CD for the AM proc.

[Songette]

1. Mar'gok if you sit on 4 charges and AO comes of CD you definitely want to shoot it into the adds, since this will most likely give you 3 AM proccs. Same holds true for Ko'ragh with the adds

If there are 3+ adds, I let of a barrage into the adds and then fire the Orb at them and this usually gets me to 4 x AC and 3 x AM with one GCD.

When using for single target burn, I usually hold on to it and use it to get over the low AC charges after Evo. If I remember, and it is quite tomorrow, I will try running some sims to see if it is better to hold or use on CD for the AM proc.

Thanks Chev Looking forward to that sim n_n

[Chev]

Here you go: The TL:DR version is it really doesn't matter, especially when you are dealing with add periods of adds but make sure your Orb is available for when you go into the conserve phase.

There are 3 actors (all in HM Mythic gear).

Arc_HM_M: The default profile which only uses Arcane Orb during the burn phase if you are not yet at 4 stacks so you can get to 4 stacks asap and continue burning.

Arc_HM_M_Orb4AC: Uses the Orb during the burn to get to 4 stacks of AC (if less) and when available during the burn to try and generate AM stacks but only when you have 2 or less AM stacks (varying the number of AM stacks does not really make any difference).

Arc_HM_M_Orb4AC_reset: Uses Arcane Barrage to reset AC stacks during the burn, but only when you have exhausted all AM procs and there are 3 or more targets in the orbs path and the orb is available to get you back to 4 stacks straight away. Also, only used when above 60% mana.



These sims are run with 3 targets up for the whole fight so if you are dealing with an intermission phase or add wave, the tiny amount of time there are adds available to use the Orb on will not make a huge amount of impact on your overall DPS but this may help those who are chasing ranks later on in the expansion.

I could also get the "Arc_HM_M_Orb4AC" to be the same DPS as the default profile if I only used orb to generate AM procs when I was above 70% mana. This indicates that the Orb is best being left alone towards the end of the burn to make sure you can get to 4 stacks ASAP after using Evo and going into your conserve phase.

[Komma]

Here you go: The TL:DR version is it really doesn't matter, especially when you are dealing with add periods of adds but make sure your Orb is available for when you go into the conserve phase.

This is kinda surprising. The default APL doesn't use AO during the burn (unless building charges) because back when I tested in Aug/Sept, it was a loss. I guess the fixes and changes since then have made things very different. I'll have to update the APL after verifying these results.

[wayniac87]

anyone could explain me WHEN exactly AO will trigger missiles ?
is it some kind of chance to do so or every 2nd cast?

[Shangalar]

I guess it's 40% on cast and 40% for every mob hit. At least I think it used to be 40%, I forget information like this over time.

[Chev]

I believe it is 30% (like Arcane Explosion).

[wayniac87]

which means i am just pretty unlucky getting not a single proc from adds on imperator mythic

[Thoras]

which means i am just pretty unlucky getting not a single proc from adds on imperator mythic

Yeah. 99% of the time I'll get a full three procs of AM from throwing AO into the adds. That 1% of the time though... hurts my feelings almost.

I'd also like to add that if you throw your AO at the right times, you can actually get 4 procs of AM if you're casting AM during AO's travel time through the adds and then freshly spawning adds. I think with enough haste you could get five procs...

Here you go: The TL:DR version is it really doesn't matter, especially when you are dealing with add periods of adds but make sure your Orb is available for when you go into the conserve phase.

This is kinda surprising. The default APL doesn't use AO during the burn (unless building charges) because back when I tested in Aug/Sept, it was a loss. I guess the fixes and changes since then have made things very different. I'll have to update the APL after verifying these results.

Yeah this is definitely interesting. I haven't actually ever considered using AO during the burn because I always want to make sure AO is up to build charges after I evocate. I would love to see more about this

[madindehead]

Sorry to bring this thread back to the fore, I have a question about Arcane Orb usage on single target fights.

During the converse phase, what is the best usage of the orb? Would it be to quickly build stacks again, to use a Barrage on the target, and then build back to 4 stacks using Arcane Blast, essentially ensuring that you have more Barrage uses (and more Missiles procs).

I hope someone has some insight on this. The reason I am asking is because I despise Prismatic Crystal as a talent.

[Chev]

You want to use it to skip building up the first 2 Arcane Charges. E.g. Barrage, Orb, AB.

[madindehead]

Ace thanks. Going to give it a try tonight instead of Prismatic Crystal.

[madindehead]

One final question regarding the orb during burn phase on single target. Just use it on cooldown for the damage?

[Wilderness]

One final question regarding the orb during burn phase on single target. Just use it on cooldown for the damage?

No, its damage sucks. Don't use it on single-target burn. I'm not sure if anyone has shown whether the chance to reset/instantly re-gain stacks/AM on multiple targets makes it worth using during a burn and how many enemies it would take to be worth it. But definitely not worth it for single target.

[Chev]

No, its damage sucks. Don't use it on single-target burn. I'm not sure if anyone has shown whether the chance to reset/instantly re-gain stacks/AM on multiple targets makes it worth using during a burn and how many enemies it would take to be worth it. But definitely not worth it for single target.

There was a discussion somewhere about using it during a burn when there are 3+ targets as you could Barrage, Orb to get straight back to 4 x AC and each target it hits has a 30% chance to proc AM giving you more AM procs than you would have had if you just used AM / AB in your burn. The trick with this was to make sure the Orb would be back off CD in time for when you reset stacks so you could get back to 3-4 AC stacks ASAP in the conserve phase. This normally meant not using orb when you were below 60% mana.

I have highlighted Wilderness's comment about single target for emphasis.

[madindehead]

Ok thanks guys. I will only use it during the conserve phase.