Arcane mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [6.2 updated]

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Arcane mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [6.2 updated]

Unread postby Dutchmagoz Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:29 am

This guide has NOT been updated for Legion. Do not use this guide in any way for Legion.

I will most likely not update this guide for Legion unless it becomes my main spec at any point. If anyone wants to make an arcane guide, feel free!

WoD Arcane Mage Guide for 6.2
[/b]
Last updated: 13th of February, 2016.

Table of contents:
1. Introduction
2. Overview of the spec.
3. Talents and Glyphs
4. Rotation
... 4.1. Default rotation
... ... 4.1.1. Burn rotation
... ... 4.1.2. Conserve rotation
... 4.2. Prophecy of fear changes
... 4.3. 4PC changes
... 4.4. Class trinket changes
... 4.5. AoE rotation
5. Gearing
6. Contributions
7. Changelog
Click any of the links above to go to that section in the guide.
Introduction:
Welcome to my guide to arcane! This guide will tell you all you need to know about playing arcane in a mythic raiding environment.

This guide is aimed at all levels of PvE play. I tried to keep it short and concise, but at the top of each section there will be a "tl;dr" for the people who just want a quick summary of what to do / pick, followed by a more detailed explanation under it. This guide won't explain the math or reasons behind everything, but mostly aim at providing all the information you need for raiding in a short and concise manner.

If you got any questions or suggestions feel free to post them below! Also any discussion of any possible mistakes I made or if you think something else may work better please tell. "I feel like x or y is better" is not really an argument though, so please provide concrete numbers or at least some statistics to back up claims for changes in the guide.

In the future I will add videos for the different openers, and possibly make boss specific notes as well. May do the latter in its own thread though to not clutter this guide.
Overview of the spec:
Arcane is a very strong single target dps nuke spec. Even though arcane CAN do AoE or cleave dps, that's not where its strength lies. It lies in standing still and dpsing a single target extremely hard. The arcane playstyle is all tied around your mana, due to its mastery, http://www.wowhead.com/spell=76547/mastery-mana-adept" target="_blank.

The playstyle revolves around staying as high mana as possible as much as possible, while trying to maximize the amount of hard hitting abilities you use. Our mana spender is http://www.wowhead.com/spell=30451/arcane-blast" target="_blank, which gets progressively stronger, but also more mana intensive, the more times you cast it, due to http://www.wowhead.com/spell=114664/arcane-charge" target="_blank. You can get rid of these charges by using http://www.wowhead.com/spell=44425" target="_blank, which is a decently hard hitting spell, but its main usage is dropping our arcane charges to make sure we don't lose too much mana.

To help us remain at a mana high level, we also get a proc, namely http://www.wowhead.com/spell=5143" target="_blank, which is a hard hitting spell which costs no mana! This procs from basically everything an arcane mage does with a roughly 30% proc chance.

The last very important ability is http://www.wowhead.com/spell=135449/evocation" target="_blank, which generates a lot of mana back in a short period of time, scaling with arcane charges.

Cons and pros:
Cons:
- Losing focus even for just a very short period of time will have a long lasting DPS loss as consequence.
- Not very good AoE and cleave dps.
- Less mobile than the other mage specs.

Pros:
- Very high single target DPS.
- Almost all damage is instant, making it very good at nuking down priority targets fast.
- One of the highest burst in the game.
Talents and glyphs:
Image
Tldr:
Always use ice floes
Single target no class trinket: Supernova + rune of power + prismatic crystal
Single target with class trinket: Unstable magic instead of supernova
AoE/Cleave: Nether tempest + rune of power + arcane orb
Replace Rune of Power with incanter's flow on high movement.
Other talents are personal preference or fight reliant.

This part of the guide assumes you know what the talents do, and I'll just go over what's good and bad about every talent. If you don't know what each talent does, mouseover the tooltips.

Level 15:
Image
tldr: pick ice floes.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=157913/evanesce" target="_blank is only good for very specific bosses. It blocks only targetted abilities and not ground effects.
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=108843/blazing-speed" target="_blank is not used for arcane unless a specific boss fight requires it. Think of having to get to a specific part of the room very fast. In general it's better to just blink though.
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=108839/ice-floes" target="_blank is the go-to talent for arcane. It lets you cast on the move and can be used mid cast, making it extremely strong since you can simply activate it when something lands on you and move out of it. Make sure to bind it to something comfortable like a mouse key.

Level 30:
Image
Tldr: pick whatever you prefer

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=108978/alter-time" target="_blank is very strong on specific bosses. Activate it right before a hard hitting ability lands, and then reactivate it straight after to heal back to full. Also off the GCD.
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=140468/flameglow" target="_blank is convenient because it doesn't require you to do anything and just reduces the damage you take a little. Not very good unless there's a lot of constant damage going on.
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=11426/ice-barrier" target="_blank increases your max hp pool, making it good to stop you from dying to things that are more damage than your max hp in damage. Sadly on the gcd so it is a dps loss. This is my preferred talent for most progress fights.

Level 45:
Image
Tldr: Not relevant for PvE unless there's something CC'able.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=113724/ring-of-frost" target="_blank is nice for CC'ing a group of mobs.
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=111264/ice-ward" target="_blank is useless for raiding since shatter got removed from arcane.
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=102051/frostjaw" target="_blank is also useless for raiding in 99% of cases.

Level 60:
Image
Tldr: Take either cauterize of greater invis depending on the fight.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=110959/gre ... visibility" target="_blank is a very strong 1.5 minute cooldown which can be used to basically survive any boss ability in the game. It's very strong and should be picked whenever there's incoming damage you can easily anticipate and thus can use greater invis for. (Example: iron reaver barrage) Downside is that it's on the GCD.
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=86949/cauterize" target="_blank is a second life. Very good if there's unexpected things that can kill you. It's also passive so you won't have to use a GCD for it.
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=11958/cold-snap" target="_blank is decent for survivability since it gives you a second ice block if a fight requires it. Also resets presence of mind, so it's technically a dps increase.

Level 75:
Image
Tldr: Supernova on single target, (also need prismatic crystal), nether tempest on aoe/cleave. Unstable magic is also very competitve to the other 2 choices, and doesn't require you to keep track of anything, so it's a good choice as well. More about unstable magic later, since it becomes best in certain scenarios.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=114923/nether-tempest" target="_blank Is a strong dot which deals a lot of cleave damage, making it very strong for cleave and aoe. It's also good for movement intensive fights due to being instant and being cast quite often.
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=157976/unstable-magic" target="_blank is quite good for arcane, due to scaling off our hardest hitting most used ability. It's a good choice for any situation, but not the best. (Except with http://www.wowhead.com/item=124516/tome ... &bonus=567" target="_blank, which makes unstable magic the best talent)
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=157980/supernova" target="_blank is a hard hitting ability that also deals AoE damage. Very good for single target fights or for adds that are alive very shortly and are stacked.

Level 90:
Image
Tldr: Pick rune of power, unless there's too much movement, then incanter's flow. MI is never worth it as arcane.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=55342/mirror-image" target="_blank isn't very strong for arcane since it doesn't scale with mastery.
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=116011/rune-of-power" target="_blank is the go-to talent for arcane, simply increases all the damage you do. Make sure you place two of them down in different places before a fight starts so you have to recast it as little as possible.
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=1463/incanters-flow" target="_blank is basically a weaker more RNG version of RoP. Use it when there's too much movement to use RoP on the fight. Try and use hard hitting abilities on high stacks.

Level 100:
Image
Tldr: Prismatic crystal is the best single target talent, and arcane orb the best AoE talent. Overpowered is strong on fights which sometimes have additional targets, or where you wouldn't get a lot out of prismatic crystal due to the boss moving a lot.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=155147/overpowered" target="_blank Is susprisingly strong if you get good RNG. Even without good rng however it's still a strong talent for fights where prismatic crystal isn't optimal, and there's not a lot of mobs constantly to make a lot of use of arcane orb.
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=152087/prismatic-crystal" target="_blank amplifies the damage you do to it by 30%, and lets you double dip damage on supernova. It's the best single target talent when combined with supernova.
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=153626/arcane-orb" target="_blank Is a pretty low hitting ability, but on cleave and aoe fights it will give you a HUGE amount of arcane missile procs, and help you get back to 4 stacks of arcane charge basically instantly. Very good on fights with a lot of adds.

Glyphs:
Tldr: Glyph arcane power for most fights, and rapid displacement for fights with a of mobility. Arcane explosion glyph whenever it means it lets you hit more targets. Rest is situational. Don't glyph arcane power when using http://www.wowhead.com/item=124516/tome ... &bonus=567" target="_blank

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=62210/glyp ... cane-power" target="_blank should be used on any fight where you don't need arcane power every 1.5 minutes due to important targets. This is because it increases your initial bloodlust/potion burst a lot, and will always yield at least the same or more uptime than unglyphed AP. (never less) Don't glyph arcane power when using http://www.wowhead.com/item=124516/tome ... &bonus=567" target="_blank.
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=115718/gly ... -explosion" target="_blank is good whenever it lets you hit more target than unglyphed. (For example kromog grasping hands)
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=146659/gly ... splacement" target="_blank is good if you need to move very far during a fight sometimes, or if you need to dodge something often. (Like imperator novas)
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=115723/glyph-of-ice-block" target="_blank basically makes you immune for 3 seconds after cancelling/finishing ice block. Can be convenient so you basically go immune at the cost of only one GCD with a /cancelaura macro.
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=86209/glyph-of-slow" target="_blank Is a very useful glyph for fights where slowing is important. Think of fights like gorefiend and kilrogg.
Rotation:
There's multiple different rotations for arcane, depending on your gear. First I will over the "default" rotation, and then go into the different rotations for different scenarios.

1. Default rotation
2. Prophecy of fear changes
3. 4PC changes
4. Class trinket changes
5. AoE rotation
Default rotation:
The arcane "rotation" consists of 2 aspects, a burn phase and a conserve phase. I will go over when to use what rotation and how to use them below. The conserve rotation will be what you spend most of a fight in, and having a good conserve phase is vital to arcane's DPS. A lot of people stress about optimizing their burn phase, but being able to play a good conserve phase is the most important thing about playing arcane.

Single target:

Pre-pull:
- [With http://www.wowhead.com/spell=116011/rune-of-power" target="_blank talented]: Make sure you got 2 runes down on spots you know you may have to move to somewhere in the first 3 minutes of the fight, so you don't have to re-cast it as often.
- 1.5 seconds before the fight, use your potion and begin casting http://www.wowhead.com/spell=30451/arcane-blast" target="_blank.
- Start the burn rotation
Burn rotation:
The goal of the burn rotation is to use as many hard hitting abilities as fast as possible, not caring about mana, and then going back up to 93%+ mana with http://www.wowhead.com/spell=12051/evocation" target="_blank. During the burn phase, never cast http://www.wowhead.com/spell=44425/arcane-barrage" target="_blank.

With a high ring level, start the burn rotation together with the ring, ignoring the arcane charges requirement from below. So if ring gets activated, and you only got 1 arcane charge stack, start the burn rotation immediately.

- First of all, make sure you're on at least 93% mana, have 4 stacks of arcane charges (see above), have evocation ready or ready within 20 seconds, and at least 1 charge of supernova (if talented), preferably both. When running prismatic crystal, make sure it's ready as well. Preferably you also want at least one charge of arcane missiles, but this is not required. If you meet all these criteria, you can begin your burn phase:
- [With http://www.wowhead.com/spell=152087/prismatic-crystal" target="_blank talented]: Place prismatic crystal on the boss. Cast arcane blast whenever you're at a 100% mana, otherwise, cast arcane missiles or supernova if talented.
- [With http://www.wowhead.com/spell=153626/arcane-orb" target="_blank talented]: Cast it whenver you have no arcane missile stacks.
- Keep casting arcane blast when you have no arcane missile procs, if you do, cast arcane missiles (when below 93% mana). Keep doing this until 65% mana.
- When below 65% mana, stop using arcane missiles and only cast arcane blast until 50% or lower mana, then cast evocation and let it tick twice to go back to 90% mana, and start the conserverotation
Conserve rotation:
The goal of the conserve rotation is to stay as high mana as possible without ever capping on mana.
- If evocation is ready, or within 20 seconds of being ready, and you have 4 stacks of arcane charges and are above 90% mana, start the burn rotation. Otherwise:
- Use http://www.wowhead.com/spell=30451/arcane-blast" target="_blank until you have 4 stacks of http://www.wowhead.com/spell=114664" target="_blank.
Then:
- Whenever you have more than 93% mana, and don't have 3 stacks of http://www.wowhead.com/spell=5143/arcane-missiles" target="_blank, cast arcane blast.
- Whenever you drop below 93% mana, cast arcane missiles. If you don't have arcane missiles, cast http://www.wowhead.com/spell=44425/arcane-barrage" target="_blank, and repeat from the beginning.

It sounds very simple, but even messing up a single time and using arcane blast one cast too often, means you won't really be able to do any 4 stack spells for quite a long time, so be very careful on using arcane blast too often.

- [With http://www.wowhead.com/spell=157980/supernova" target="_blank talented]: Use supernova when you're below 93% mana but above 85% mana, and don't have 3 stacks of arcane missiles. Basically use it in place of arcane barrage, and pray it procs arcane missiles! If missiles didn't proc, your mana may've regenered to above 93% again, so you could cast another arcane blast.
- [With http://www.wowhead.com/spell=153626/arcane-orb" target="_blank talented]: Cast it right after using arcane barrage to get to 4 stacks as fast as possible.
- [With http://www.wowhead.com/spell=114923/nether-tempest" target="_blank talented]: Cast it when you have 4 stacks of arcane charges, and the boss either doesn't have nether tempest up already, or it would expire before the next time you would get 4 stacks of nether tempest. The goal is to always have a 4 arcane charges stack nether tempest ticking on the boss.
Prophecy of fear rotation: (http://www.wowhead.com/item=124230/prop ... &bonus=567" target="_blank)
The prophecy of fear trinket changes how we play a bit on single target. Since arcane missiles hits five (5) times in a single cast, and each one of those procs prophecy of fear's damage, thus it becomes the most important spell to cast during the prophecy of fear proc. This means you use arcane missiles during the trinket proc no matter what, even if you're full mana or not on 4 charges of arcane stacks.

It also changes our burn rotation a bit:
When you get to 4 stacks of arcane charges, and prophecy of fear procced on the boss, place prismatic crystal, then target the boss and cast arcane missiles on the boss. This way the explosions will hit both the boss and the prismatic crystal. You want to keep casting arcane blasts on the prismatic crystal while casting arcane missiles on the boss (as long as prophecy of fear is up on the boss).

On AoE this trinket becomes absolutely insane, and you will want to really optimize the amount of spells you hit during the proc.

Spells that can trigger the explosion from Mark of Doom:
-Arcane Blast
- Arcane Missile (each missile procs its own separate explosion, so 5 explosions per Arcane Missile use)
- Super Nova
- Arcane Orb
- Arcane Barrage
- Cone of Cold
- Arcane Explosion

Spells that DO NOT trigger the explosion from Mark of Doom:
- Multistrikes
- Mirror Images
- Unstable Magic
- Prismatic crystal cleave
T18 4pc changes: (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=186166" target="_blank + http://www.wowhead.com/spell=186165" target="_blank)
The 2pc bonus doesn't change our rotation, however, the 4pc bonus does change our rotation. The 4pc damage buff is quite big, and it stacks, meaning with 2 of the buffs up, you will be doing (1.12*1.12 - 1) 25.4% bonus damage. This means that you will want to try and time the usage of spells like supernova with the damage bonus from 4pc.
Tome of shifting words rotation: (http://www.wowhead.com/item=124516/tome ... &bonus=567" target="_blank)
This new class trinket changes the way we do the burn phase quite significantly. There's 2 glyph/talent differences:
- You should be running unglyphed arcane power with this trinket.
- You should be using unstable magic instead of supernova talent with this trinket.

Aside from these differences, there's two burn phase rotation differences:
- After getting to 4 stacks of arcane charges, use all your arcane missiles on the boss before placing down prismatic crystal
- After this, simply place prismatic crystal and burn as you usually would, but keep burning until AP runs out, instead of until 50% mana. Keep using arcane missiles as they come up.

The conserve rotation doesn't change with this trinket.

So what if you run both PoF and tome?
You use all your arcane missiles before placing prismatic crystal. Burn phase doesn't change from the usual.
Multiple targets:
There's a lot of different type of multiple target scenarios in raiding. There's big 5+ groups of mobs all stacked up nicely [AoE rotation], there's 2-4 target cleave [Cleave rotation], and there's 2+ targets spread around the room [Spread rotation].

AoE rotation: (5+ targets stacked up)
- [With http://www.wowhead.com/spell=157980/supernova" target="_blank talented]: Use supernova on cooldown.
- [With http://www.wowhead.com/spell=114923/nether-tempest" target="_blank talented]: Keep nether tempest up on a target at all times, with 4 arcane charge stacks.
- [With http://www.wowhead.com/spell=153626/arcane-orb" target="_blank talented]: Use arcane orb whenever you have no arcane charges (while at 4 stacks) This should allow you to remain at 4 stacks the entire time while remaining 93%+ mana. If you somehow end up running out of arcane missiles / mana too fast, start using arcane orb to go from 0 arcane charges to 4 instantly.
- Cast http://www.wowhead.com/spell=44425/arcane-barrage" target="_blank when you have 4 stacks of arcane charges.
- Cast http://www.wowhead.com/spell=1449/arcane-explosion" target="_blank when none of the above conditions match.

Cleave rotation: (2-4 targets stacked up)
- [With http://www.wowhead.com/spell=157980/supernova" target="_blank talented]: Use supernova on cooldown.
- [With http://www.wowhead.com/spell=114923/nether-tempest" target="_blank talented]: Keep nether tempest up on a target at all times, with 4 arcane charge stacks.
- [With http://www.wowhead.com/spell=153626/arcane-orb" target="_blank talented]: Use arcane orb whenever you have no stacks of arcane missiles.
- Continue your normal rotation.

Spread rotation: (multiple targets not next to eachother)
- Continue your normal single target rotation on the highest priority target.
Gearing:
Gearing for arcane depends a lot on the talents you use and the gear you have, the stat priorities below are a very rough stat priority. The best way to figure out your stats is to run simcraft for your character. Read this thread on how to do this.
Stat priority:
Without any of the 6.2 stuff
intellect > spellpower > mastery > haste > multistrike > crit=versatility

With t18 2pc
intellect > spellpower > haste till ~1300 > mastery > haste > multistrike > crit=versatility

With t18 4pc
intellect > spellpower > haste till ~2100 > mastery >= haste > multistrike > crit=versatility

When using unstable magic instead of supernova, the 2100 haste "breakpoint" may move up a bit, to anywhere between 2.1k and 2.6k. Keep in mind, the 2100 haste point is a guideline. It is NOT a hard breakpoint, and it changes depending on your talents, gear, fight length, and many other factors.

How to gear:
Prioritize any item with haste and mastery. If you have to choose between haste + x and mastery +x, take haste + x when you're below the given "breakpoints", otherwise mastery.

Gem haste or mastery depending on your haste level.

Trinkets:
Single target: http://www.wowhead.com/item=124516/tome ... &bonus=567" target="_blank > http://www.wowhead.com/item=124230/prop ... &bonus=567" target="_blank > http://www.wowhead.com/item=124229/unbl ... &bonus=567" target="_blank > http://www.wowhead.com/item=124228/dese ... &bonus=567" target="_blank > http://www.wowhead.com/item=124227/iron ... &bonus=567" target="_blank
Multiple targets: http://www.wowhead.com/item=124230/prop ... &bonus=567" target="_blank > http://www.wowhead.com/item=124229/unbl ... &bonus=567" target="_blank > http://www.wowhead.com/item=124228/dese ... &bonus=567" target="_blank > http://www.wowhead.com/item=124227/iron ... &bonus=567" target="_blank > http://www.wowhead.com/item=124516/tome ... &bonus=567" target="_blank
Contributions:
Frosted & Komma: Both indirectly contributed a lot due to their amazing work on the simcraft module, and their theorycrafting in general.
Dye: Sending me a proof of concept for the 6.2 changes which I've used for updating the guide for 6.2.
My guildies (Dmages, Rinoa, Neopold): Helping me test certain things like talent combinations and different rotations.

Changelog: (dd/mm/yyyy)
25/07/2015: Updated for 6.2: Changed optimal talents due to class changes. Added rotation changes for PoF, Tome, T18 4pc bonus. Changed gearing strategy due to t18/tome. (also added changelog :))
08/08/2015: Updated stat priorities slightly
09/08/2015: Added contributions section
23/11/2015: Slight tweak to the burn phase with tome trinket
11/01/2016: Slight tweak to the burn phase due to the inflated ilvls from the ring upgrades.
13/02/2016: Updated the tldr of talents, added links to the different type of rotations, slight tweak to the AoE rotation with arcane orb, updated stats section.
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Liandry
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Re: Arcane mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [6.1 update

Unread postby Liandry Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:58 am

Great guide, I would change fire to arcane in the "Tier 15" section. :p Also maybe perhaps change that to level 15.
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Dutchmagoz
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Re: Arcane mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [6.1 update

Unread postby Dutchmagoz Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:03 pm

Great guide, I would change fire to arcane in the "Tier 15" section. :p Also maybe perhaps change that to level 15.
Woops, thanks. Thought I could copy the lvl 15 section from my fire guide since it's the same for both specs.
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TLTeo
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Re: Arcane mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [6.1 update

Unread postby TLTeo Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:03 pm

Another great post, thanks :) As a minor addendum, you may want to add this http://altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic ... 165#p12646" target="_blank

Has anyone tried OP on Oregoreger? I feel like that's the only fight when it could really shine, but i haven't done any solid testing comparing it to PC.
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Dutchmagoz
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Re: Arcane mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [6.1 update

Unread postby Dutchmagoz Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:15 pm

Another great post, thanks :) As a minor addendum, you may want to add this http://altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic ... 165#p12646" target="_blank

Has anyone tried OP on Oregoreger? I feel like that's the only fight when it could really shine, but i haven't done any solid testing comparing it to PC.
I use PC on oregorger. You can use it right at the pull and again before the rolling phase starts, and depending on how long your rolling phase takes, again with 3 minute cooldowns right as the rolling phase ends.
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TLTeo
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Re: Arcane mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [6.1 update

Unread postby TLTeo Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:42 pm

Hm in my experience PC doesn't time very well with his roll phases. Probably because im a filthy casual that hasn't started mythic progress yet :P
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Ghanjo
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Re: Arcane mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [6.1 update

Unread postby Ghanjo Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:45 pm

Hey, nice guide. I have a few Arcane Orb-related questions:
Conserve Rotation
- [With Arcane Orb talented]: Cast it whenver you have no arcane missile stacks.
When using Arcane Orb, is it better to use it on cooldown to fish for missile procs, instead of saving it for when you are at zero arcane charges?
AoE rotation
- [With Arcane Orb talented]: Use arcane orb whenever you have no stacks of arcane missiles and don't have 4 stacks of arcane charges.
In the AoE rotation, why does my amount of Arcane Missile stacks affect whether to use Arcane Orb, when I don't use missiles at all during the AoE rotation?
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TLTeo
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Re: Arcane mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [6.1 update

Unread postby TLTeo Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:56 pm

Save orb for zero arcane charges during conserve phases. I'm not sure about aoe though.
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Re: Arcane mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [6.1 update

Unread postby Dutchmagoz Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:05 pm

Hm in my experience PC doesn't time very well with his roll phases. Probably because im a filthy casual that hasn't started mythic progress yet :P
Not sure about heroic timings, it works out well on mythic though.
Hey, nice guide. I have a few Arcane Orb-related questions:
Conserve Rotation
- [With Arcane Orb talented]: Cast it whenver you have no arcane missile stacks.
When using Arcane Orb, is it better to use it on cooldown to fish for missile procs, instead of saving it for when you are at zero arcane charges?
AoE rotation
- [With Arcane Orb talented]: Use arcane orb whenever you have no stacks of arcane missiles and don't have 4 stacks of arcane charges.
In the AoE rotation, why does my amount of Arcane Missile stacks affect whether to use Arcane Orb, when I don't use missiles at all during the AoE rotation?
It's hard to give a definitive answer to your first question, since it depends a lot on when you're going to dump your charges. I tend to cast it on cooldown to fish for missile procs, but I also don't really pick AO at all outside of aoe fights, on which you can basically stay on 4 charges permanently due to having near infinite missile procs with AO.

You're right on the AoE part! Arcane missiles don't matter! I'll edit it out.
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Re: Arcane mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [6.1 update

Unread postby Berlinia Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:21 pm

TImings on Mythic and Heroic Oregorger appear to be the exact same!
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Re: Arcane mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [6.1 update

Unread postby Wilderness Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:22 pm

I'm curious about the burn phase you mentioned 65% mana to start ignoring AM, I've generally seen 70% as the number. I've also not seen it mentioned that you want to use your charges of SN between 90-95% mana. I assume that's to take advantage of mastery as much as you can, while not capping mana during the GCD following its use?
Hm in my experience PC doesn't time very well with his roll phases. Probably because im a filthy casual that hasn't started mythic progress yet :P
It depends on your interrupts. He loses mana/energy through P1 and rolls when he runs out - but if you miss interrupts then he runs out faster. If all his blackrock barrages are interrupted, I think you should be able to use PC just before the roll phase even on heroic.
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Re: Arcane mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [6.1 update

Unread postby TLTeo Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:53 pm

Hooray that means my guild is bad \o/
I'm curious about the burn phase you mentioned 65% mana to start ignoring AM, I've generally seen 70% as the number.
There isnt a set number; the rule is there only so your cooldowns sync better for later burn phases. It very much depends on your procs, how the fight is going etc.
I've also not seen it mentioned that you want to use your charges of SN between 90-95% mana. I assume that's to take advantage of mastery as much as you can, while not capping mana during the GCD following its use?


Yep. Just wondering, how does this compare to saving a SN charge for a trinket/weapon/ring proc, or even for just high IF stacks? I'd run sims myself but im pretty sure i'd screw up something in the APL, the other day i tried messing with similar things with the Destro lock APL for my alt and i kept obtaining nonsensical results.
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Re: Arcane mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [6.1 update

Unread postby Dutchmagoz Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:16 pm

About the 65% mana thing, it's basically the same as 70%, depending on if you're looking pre or post cast.

The reason for casting SN between 90 and 95% mana isn't so much for the extra damage for SN, it's because it can generate arcane missiles, and you don't want to cap on mana during the GCD + next AB cast time. What it basically comes down to is: "cast SN if it means you would normally use barrage otherwise."

I'll try word it a bit differently.
- [With http://www.wowhead.com/spell=157980/supernova" target="_blank talented]: Use supernova when you're below 93% mana but above 85% mana, and don't have 3 stacks of arcane missiles. Basically use it in place of arcane barrage, and pray it procs arcane missiles! If missiles didn't proc, your mana may've regenered to above 93% again, so you could cast another arcane blast.
Obviously timing it with multistrike trinket or high IF stacks is a big plus, but trying to remain on 4 stacks of arcane charges is really important.

Sounds better I think? Changed the percentages a bit as well to more define what I mean.

@oregorger, if you miss interrupts his first phase lasts shorter as wilderness mentioned.
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Re: Arcane mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [6.1 update

Unread postby recom Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:03 pm

Has anyone tried OP on Oregoreger? I feel like that's the only fight when it could really shine, but i haven't done any solid testing comparing it to PC.
IMO it depends on your strat. We used the strat where both range groups use the outer corridor which means that Oregorger will move quite a bit before transitioning to P2 and you can't place your crystal correctly because of LoS. So I had to pick OP and it performs quite well. Here's our log if you want to have a look, it's heroic because our mythic kill was quite messy x) https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ZL ... amage-done" target="_blank
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Re: Arcane mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [6.1 update

Unread postby Wilderness Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:26 pm

I think the rewording of the SN part makes sense - that is how I use it, to try to extend your time at 4 stacks, I just never thought about the mana percentage at that time.
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Re: Arcane mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [6.1 update

Unread postby Deckzor Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:59 am

Recom, even with your strat you should be able to put a PC down after your first 4 Charges are up. Then with the use of Floes Burn on your Crystal as usual. The Problem with the second Crystal before the Roll Phase is that it depends on your kick Rotation. Perfect= Second Crystal, semi = few ticks of Crystal, bad = no second Crystal at all :D
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Re: Arcane mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [6.1 update

Unread postby Dutchmagoz Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:04 am

Recom, even with your strat you should be able to put a PC down after your first 4 Charges are up. Then with the use of Floes Burn on your Crystal as usual. The Problem with the second Crystal before the Roll Phase is that it depends on your kick Rotation. Perfect= Second Crystal, semi = few ticks of Crystal, bad = no second Crystal at all :D
Yea it depends a lot on your interrupts. If your guild isn't getting all interrupts, it could be worth going OP, but it probably still isn't since you can still get one PC per normal phase.
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Re: Arcane mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [6.1 update

Unread postby Eryxus Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:56 am

Hey, love the guide.

Why do you wait until Evo has 20 seconds left on CD to start burn, and not 30 seconds?

If we take AP glyph, then shouldn't the burn phase last 30 secs? If we then wait until Evo has 20 secs left, we lose 10 seconds off PC every burn.

EG:
0s Start Burn PC+AP
30s EVO
90s PC off CD, with EVO 30 secs away, not 20.
100s Start second burn

Or should burn only last 20 seconds?

Sorry if this is a stupid question. I'm bad at maths.
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Re: Arcane mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [6.1 update

Unread postby TLTeo Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:44 am

Because you don't know exactly how long the burn phase will be. If you don't get AM procs, or get too few procs, the burn phase ends up being shorter and if your evo isn't off cooldown as you hit ~50% mana for another 10 or so seconds then you're in trouble. You'd rather just evocate during AP and go to conserve.
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Re: Arcane mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [6.1 update

Unread postby Eryxus Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:18 pm

Is there a length that is too long for the burn to last? What do I do if I get constant missle procs, and am high mana 40+ seconds into the burn? Do I just end the burn without evo?

If evo removes all stacks, why don't we cast Barrage right before we evo? Is there a reason some of the top logs on Gruul cast barrage in the middle of their burn phase?

Also, I assume when the boss gets low health, or ~30 secs from enrage, we add an extra burn even with no evo up?

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