Can we get an official comment on t17 4pc proc?

[lve2raft]

Does this change rotation at all? So much conflicting info out there on this. Like do we cast AM as soon as we get the proc or wait for 4 stacks of AB like normal? Do we still wait for 4 stacks of ab and three missile procs or just go on the first missile proc if the buff is running?

Here is the comment from Method Mage Guide which usually is pretty reliable:

Tier 17 Tier Bonuses:
Item - Mage T17 Arcane 4P Bonus should change our gameplay slightly, it means we will want to use Arcane Missiles with this proc, regardless of our current Arcane Charge stacks.

[TLTeo]

That's been shown to be a very noticable dps loss in simcraft, Vykina is wrong.

[Dutchmagoz]

AT doesn't have an "official" voice on anything, but most people tend to agree that using arcane missiles before hitting 3 stacks of arcane charges is always a DPS loss.

[Myxel]

Keep in mind that the 4pc can be overwritten and you'll lose one proc due to AB'ing up to higher charges.
Afaik that's bigger dps loss than using AM at low charges.

[TLTeo]

For the default HC profile, Patchwerk fight, 5 minutes, 10k iterations, the error is ~25. It's a dps loss.

[gameorg]

For the default HC profile, Patchwerk fight, 5 minutes, 10k iterations, the error is ~25. It's a dps loss.

Nicely done, but i still have some ideas. How did you modify the rotation? Does it use AM asap when the 4P Proc occurs?

There might still be possibilities for an intelligent usage of 4P outside of the usual rotation:

Examples:

Proc occurs at 3 AB Stacks - what would happen, if you tell the rotation to only react at >= 3 stacks of AB?

4P proc During PC. You might want to use 4P asap during PC, to proc another one or to prioritize it above AB if duration is about to run out. the 30% Extra Dmg could close the Gap you have shown in the graph - making it worthwile to react.

Another one would be during burn phase. If you are around 70% Mana and decide to stop Casting missiles to finish the burn But have a 4P Proc. This would result in about 7-8 AB casts and not using the 4P Proc.

In those scenarios i still expect a DPS increase. Some of those are not that hard to sim, i try to go for it myself on sunday if you dont like to TLteo.

[TLTeo]

I changed

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actions.conserve+=/arcane_missiles,if=set_bonus.tier17_4pc&buff.arcane_instability.react&buff.arcane_instability.remains<action.arcane_blast.execute_time

which prevents the 4set proc from falling off without being consumed (and is also a failsafe against what you metnion regarding the burn phase), to simply

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actions.conserve+=/arcane_missiles,if=set_bonus.tier17_4pc&buff.arcane_instability.react

meaning cast AM reacting to 4set procs.

I suppose you could change the APL to optimze PC use, but frankly i don't expect results to change very significantly.

[Wilderness]

There might still be possibilities for an intelligent usage of 4P outside of the usual rotation:

Examples:

Proc occurs at 3 AB Stacks - what would happen, if you tell the rotation to only react at >= 3 stacks of AB?

4P proc During PC. You might want to use 4P asap during PC, to proc another one or to prioritize it above AB if duration is about to run out. the 30% Extra Dmg could close the Gap you have shown in the graph - making it worthwile to react.

Another one would be during burn phase. If you are around 70% Mana and decide to stop Casting missiles to finish the burn But have a 4P Proc. This would result in about 7-8 AB casts and not using the 4P Proc.

I can see the decision to use below 70% mana if you get a proc - you may be casting quite a few more ABs before you'd use it so that makes sense.

I'm not sure about PC - it would still need to have enough duration left on PC for the missiles travel time to hit, and if you have that duration you should be alternating AB and AM anyway. Maybe it could be a very slight dps gain to use a 4 piece proc if you have the duration for it even if you're capped at 100% mana. However, since you'd only be casting another AB or maybe 2 (if PC was about to end) before using the proc, and it has a low chance of overwriting, I'd be surprised if that makes much of a difference.

A sim could pretty easily test the >=3 AC stacks to see if that matters, but again since you're only casting 1 AB to reach 4 stacks, and the chance to have another proc is low, I doubt that the dps gained by not losing a 2nd proc on the rare times you get one is more than the dps lost by using AM at 3 stacks when you wouldn't have gotten that 2nd proc.

[DocileCraig]

I'd like to add another question to this thread as I don't yet fully understand my 4 set, I feel like if I accidentally cancel one proced AM cast with another right away I keep the benefit for both. could i be wrong and just be getting it a second time?

[Cycobi]

I'd like to add another question to this thread as I don't yet fully understand my 4 set, I feel like if I accidentally cancel one proced AM cast with another right away I keep the benefit for both. could i be wrong and just be getting it a second time?

It's more likely that you're getting a second 4set proc off the Missiles. Would need logs to see properly though, or a video.