Arcane Talent Comparisons, Stat Weights, Racials, Trinkets

[Frosted]

Then you should probably learn to use SimC!

[Chiv]

Then you should probably learn to use SimC!

[Liandry]

Do Haste and Unstable Magic only become best stat and best talent once you get the 2 and 4-set bonuses or are they best even before that?

Most of hastes value comes from the set bonuses. 2pc will let you get upwards of 1300 haste with it being a DPS gain (so long as you are not using mythic darmacs), and the 4pc will extend hastes value beyond that, to result in the stat priority I listed.

UM >SN is basically once you switch over from mastery to haste, as UM gains from haste and SN does not.

Added onto this - is it worth making the switch to UM if you only have 2p? Or is it more recommended for 4p.

[Frosted]

Sim it for your specific set up. In general, I think once you've swapped over to haste enchants/gems UM will sim higher.

[Grazer]

I have a question on the opener with Prophecy of Fear:
When you pull, and prophecy of fear procs before you have put down your crystal and popped arcane power, do you unload all your acquired AMs into the mark(with/without arcane power?), or do you simply ignore it and do a normal rotaion by popping crystal, AP etc.

I'm really curious about this as well. I would appreciate if a theorycrafter could figure out what to to there. Of course it may depend on the exact duration of the debuff on the target once you reach 4 stacks. It feels wrong to just ignore the Trinket debuff on the boss and nuke on PC.

[Frosted]

It's non-trivial to figure out, so don't expect any concrete anwser soon; but it's honestly going to be a very small difference for most progression length fights. Playing like we do now is fine.

[Darthy]

Since PC PoF sims higher than OP and PoF but only slightly wouldnt it be reasonable to just run OP and guarantee not messing up the trinket for more reliable dps? I am not so deep into simcraft to recognize the calculation of the trinket but the % of the buff uptime was the same for me with crystal and without so they probably do not calculate the debuff disappearing on the crystal which would lead to OP being the better choice in general. Then again I might be wrong. (rechecked it and for the current action list theres no reaction at all on the crystal conserning mark_of_doom if that helps)

[Quetesh]

Since PC PoF sims higher than OP and PoF but only slightly wouldnt it be reasonable to just run OP and guarantee not messing up the trinket for more reliable dps? I am not so deep into simcraft to recognize the calculation of the trinket but the % of the buff uptime was the same for me with crystal and without so they probably do not calculate the debuff disappearing on the crystal which would lead to OP being the better choice in general. Then again I might be wrong

With PoF i'll use OP for sure (without legendary ring) - maybe with PC it can sim better but you have more room to mess something up and for me the difference is pretty small so i rather choose QoL. But we will see how big difference it will be when we get our legendary rings.

[Frosted]

The sim doesn't "calculate" anything really, in terms of trinkets. It behaves exactly like it does in game. i.e. if MoD procs on the boss before you PC, and you are forced to swap to PC and ignore it, the sim will have the exact same behavior and the trinket will have less procs in its duration accordingly.

[GriffKentner]

1) I know once we get the tier and Archimonde trinket, we're supposed to burn deeper than we were before. Anyone know the number? It was 50% mana for tier 17. What's the new one?

2) Are we keeping the glyph of arcane power unglyphed even when using OP, to make it line up better with the legendary rings?

3) When using class trinket and t18 set bonus, it says we want to cast as many Arcane Blasts as possible, but we want to cast as many missiles as possible. Wouldn't it be theoretically better to run OP all the time and just keep arcane power unglyphed, but sync it with 2 mins? We have the possibility of much longer bursts of damage and we can just use arcane missiles and blast as much as we can? That would make more sense to me than prioritizing BOTH on PC, 'cause that make no sense to me. (With trinket, cast as many arcane blasts as possible. With set bonus, cast as many arcane missiles as possible. Both during PC.)

[Wilderness]

You're mixing up a few things regarding AP, T18, and the class trinket.

Its basically the class trinket that prompts changes to how you burn and glyphing AP. With the trinket, you always burn as long as AP is up. There's not a specific percentage - if AP is active, you burn. That also leads to unglyphing AP, because you'll go oom if you have it glyphed. Even unglyphed you can sometimes dip down to 20-30%.

Unglyphing will also have better synergy with the legendary rings, which I would assume we're always going to hold all our CDs for.

[Seatoo]

I'm sorry if I missed this - I swear I looked before asking!

Are the stat weights the same for Arcane as before? Mastery > Haste > Crit > MS > Versatility and it changes when you get 4 pc T18? Or is it changed NOW?

I literally have no clue anymore

edit: yes I do play with simcraft but things dont feel right when I look at the results

[Ragash]

I'm in a bit of a similar boat to Seatoo, just simmed myself with all haste enchants now I have t18 4p (using UM RoP and PC) and have found that there's about a 20dps increase over using the mastery ones. I also used the scaling plot option (I think, not very good with Simc ) and it seems that mastery, haste and multistrike are pretty much tied as my priority stats. I know it's probably been asked elsewhere but is there a haste cap I don't know about that I'm missing? And what enchants should I be sticking with?

[Chev]

Seatoo, this has been covered on the original post.

Ragash. I take it you have read the OP but did you read the additional reading which was linked explaining why you are stacking haste? If you read http://altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic ... 320#p15251" target="_blank you will see that there is a breakpoint which increases your DPS significantly. Looking at your armory profile (you are in frost spec at the moment so hard to be sure) but you haven't hit that breakpoint.

When you hit the breakpoint, haste wont be as important to you again and the only reason haste offers you any thing extra at the moment is because the tier pets suffer from random lag as well so the period between 20% haste (where the pets get the extra hit in) up to around 26-27% is helping to combat that lag effect for the pets. This was linked in the OP as additional reading (same link as above) and shows the effect of haste on your DPS and how it becomes beneficial for a little bit after the breakpoint but afterwards it starts becoming a loss and this is when you want to go back to start stacking Mastery as normal.

[Huunu]

Here is the million dollar question

I have no t18 4 or 2 pcs yet. Only I have is brf hc and mythic gears (including t17)
Is it worthy to hit 1300 haste cap even I dont have any hfc tiers and trinkets ?

[Chev]

Here is the million dollar question

I have no t18 4 or 2 pcs yet. Only I have is brf hc and mythic gears (including t17)
Is it worthy to hit 1300 haste cap even I dont have any hfc tiers and trinkets ?

No, you only stake haste when you have T18 2pcs

[Huunu]

Here is the million dollar question

I have no t18 4 or 2 pcs yet. Only I have is brf hc and mythic gears (including t17)
Is it worthy to hit 1300 haste cap even I dont have any hfc tiers and trinkets ?

No, you only stake haste when you have T18 2pcs

Thank you for your quick reply its all clear now

[musclepharm]

Would we be using haste or mastery food when we have 2pc and switched to haste enchants?

[Chev]

Would we be using haste or mastery food when we have 2pc and switched to haste enchants?

That depends on how aggressively you want to stack haste. There is the 20% (1300) break point where the 2 set pets get an extra swing into their spawn time and then there is the 26-27% haste target to rule out the effects of server lag.

If you decide to go for the 26-27% point then you will probably need to the food to get there as I understand it is a lot harder to gear for that point were as the 20% point is easily done with a few items and enchants / gems.

[Bashlow]

Would we be using haste or mastery food when we have 2pc and switched to haste enchants?

I did this yesterday with t17 2p and t18 2p and 2 trinkets from BRF. full haste enchants+sockets+weapon enchant. the results are fine and it is simming me significantly higher. the only thing that is really odd is how to set talents on each boss, I have the feeling I could go anything and nothing, just feels weird not to know what to do and totally rely on your feeling I got bad results with UM+PC, better with SN+PC on single target and just doing fine with orb on fights with multipe targets, caus that extra missiles are really funny