Prismatic crystal min/max

Guides and discussions of all things specific to the Mana Adepts of Azeroth.
Raaiven
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:55 pm

Prismatic crystal min/max

Unread postby Raaiven Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:30 am

I know some prefer to use PoM-AB as soon as they plant PC(No idea why), others use it just before it expires to squeeze in another AB

BUT

Assuming a scenario in which your last AM cast before planting PC procs your 4P under the influence of Incanter's flow, is there any reason as to why you wouldn't use PoM when Incanter's caps at 5 stacks and before 4p Proc expires since it's basically impossible to reach a point where it'd deal more damage?
User avatar
Curnivore
Posts: 827
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:26 am

Re: Prismatic crystal min/max

Unread postby Curnivore Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:02 am

That sounds like another obscured area that would need someone to test it who can fiddle with the simcraft script correctly (they aren't many).

Also, it's likely that it would depend on the character setup, the duration, and the encounter type.
timmywitt
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:32 pm

Re: Prismatic crystal min/max

Unread postby timmywitt Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:41 pm

I can't think of any external situation that's going to give you better damage from it than the situation you described.
ardomur
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:32 pm

Re: Prismatic crystal min/max

Unread postby ardomur Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:23 pm

I think (!) the point isn't in dealing the most damage with the PoM-AB. PoM itself doesn't give you a damage boost, its just another Arcane Blast. With Class Trinket + possibly Hero active you aren't even on GCD level of haste, so you gain no extra Arcane Blast. You just delay your next AB because you wait for the GCD of AB to finish and then start another cast.
The Arcane Blast damage itself would be quicker, but the next damage event would be slower, so no real gain.
The benefit of using PoM as the last cast on Crystal is just, that the Crystal is despawning and you wouldn't get another cast in anyway. So you get an (instant) AB, that still deals +30% damage from the Crystal. If you start another AB and Crystal despawns you just sit there for 2 sec doing nothing, because you need a new target and start the new cast.
With the 4PC bonus you get +12% + maybe some other trinket proc or something, but crystal is still +30%
At least i think that was the thought and benefit of PoM-AB at the end of Crystal^^
User avatar
Frosted
Posts: 1024
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 5:09 pm

Re: Prismatic crystal min/max

Unread postby Frosted Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:36 pm

I know some prefer to use PoM-AB as soon as they plant PC(No idea why), others use it just before it expires to squeeze in another AB

BUT

Assuming a scenario in which your last AM cast before planting PC procs your 4P under the influence of Incanter's flow, is there any reason as to why you wouldn't use PoM when Incanter's caps at 5 stacks and before 4p Proc expires since it's basically impossible to reach a point where it'd deal more damage?
The odds of this situation occurring are so low that their impact on your average DPS will be trivial.

For reference to a kind of similar situation, earlier on in the expansion I looked into ensuring that you BW/SN/IN at max IF stacks outside of PC, and it was a 0.3% DPS gain.

I also believe someone looked into PoM-AB at PC end vs just throwing it into PC and it was a very small DPS gain to do it at the end as your closing spell. I'd have to go digging through posts to find the reference for that though.
satii
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:15 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Prismatic crystal min/max

Unread postby satii Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:09 pm

I know some prefer to use PoM-AB as soon as they plant PC(No idea why)
Because the less arcane charges you have the longer it takes to cast AB, you should only do this if you're specced into cold snap though.
=)
User avatar
Komma
Administrator
Posts: 1486
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 7:37 pm

Re: Prismatic crystal min/max

Unread postby Komma Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:50 am

When PoM-AB is used at the end of PC's duration, it allows you to cheat an entire extra spell onto PC that you would have otherwise not have gotten. The scenario you're describing is trying to snapshot an extra AB under the effect of 4T18's 12% damage buff. Since PC is worth much more than that (30% damage vuln + potential AOE cleave effects), it is hard to imagine your suggestion being a gain.
Admin of Altered Time.

Have an issue with the website or moderation? Send me a PM!
Searix
Posts: 233
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: Prismatic crystal min/max

Unread postby Searix Sat May 07, 2016 5:44 pm

On the note of min/maxing crystal, what is the actual time of crystal?

It's obviously listed at 12 seconds, but experimenting with a weakaura that sets a timing bar it seems to be like 12.2-12.3ish seconds?
Irugard
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:27 pm

Re: Prismatic crystal min/max

Unread postby Irugard Sat May 07, 2016 8:04 pm

Its 12 seconds with a 1.5 second GCD.

You get about 10.5 seconds on the crystal with no lag from your end
Searix
Posts: 233
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: Prismatic crystal min/max

Unread postby Searix Sat May 07, 2016 10:17 pm

Its 12 seconds with a 1.5 second GCD.

You get about 10.5 seconds on the crystal with no lag from your end
Right, that's what it's listed it, but actual testing the crystal seems to last 12.2 seconds +/- like .2
User avatar
Komma
Administrator
Posts: 1486
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 7:37 pm

Re: Prismatic crystal min/max

Unread postby Komma Sat May 07, 2016 11:15 pm

It's 12.0 seconds for all intents and purposes. As with all things in WoW, the timer is slightly off due to server processing of summoned mobs and other minor annoyances.
Admin of Altered Time.

Have an issue with the website or moderation? Send me a PM!
User avatar
Curnivore
Posts: 827
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:26 am

Re: Prismatic crystal min/max

Unread postby Curnivore Sun May 08, 2016 12:58 pm

It's very likely that the server operations are not on a much better latency. The clients will often have about 20ms delays or lower (assuming 60FPS or more) but the servers are likely not running that fast. I had seen in the past regular FPS games that rely on very low latency to have servers run even as low as 20 FPS which would imply 50ms, and if an RPG with its GCDs would not rely that much on that, and perhaps it reclocks dynamically, it could have server delays of 100ms or more.

Or, there is some other inherent delay with that sort of thing, because to be honest, I also noticed that "despawning" (of stuff in this game in general) is slightly slower than anticipated.

Another simple explanation would be that the UI code for targetting is just not every frame per second.
Searix
Posts: 233
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: Prismatic crystal min/max

Unread postby Searix Mon May 09, 2016 2:24 am

It's very likely that the server operations are not on a much better latency. The clients will often have about 20ms delays or lower (assuming 60FPS or more) but the servers are likely not running that fast. I had seen in the past regular FPS games that rely on very low latency to have servers run even as low as 20 FPS which would imply 50ms, and if an RPG with its GCDs would not rely that much on that, and perhaps it reclocks dynamically, it could have server delays of 100ms or more.

Or, there is some other inherent delay with that sort of thing, because to be honest, I also noticed that "despawning" (of stuff in this game in general) is slightly slower than anticipated.

Another simple explanation would be that the UI code for targetting is just not every frame per second.
This is where I'm at. "Real" crystal duration is sometimes as long as ~12.7, (maybe sometimes as long as 13 seconds? I dunno there's times it feels like it), but lowest seems to be ~12.2 seconds.

15 tests now and 12.2 seconds hasn't been wrong. Lowest prismatic crystal duration might be like 12.3
User avatar
Komma
Administrator
Posts: 1486
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 7:37 pm

Re: Prismatic crystal min/max

Unread postby Komma Mon May 09, 2016 3:46 am

How exactly are you measuring this 12.2-12.3 figure? What is being measured here?
Admin of Altered Time.

Have an issue with the website or moderation? Send me a PM!
DeathDefier
Global Moderator
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 10:57 pm

Re: Prismatic crystal min/max

Unread postby DeathDefier Mon May 09, 2016 10:36 am

I've had my PC weak aura set to 12.3 for almost the entire expansion and I don't think I've ever seen it expire before the weak aura went away, only slightly after.
User avatar
Curnivore
Posts: 827
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:26 am

Re: Prismatic crystal min/max

Unread postby Curnivore Mon May 09, 2016 11:07 am

I'm not yet convinced though that even if that delay is more or less constant - which would imply not an unintended latency - isn't some kind of graphical/UI delay and the actual spells won't be applicable on such targets at the final moments. I would try instant spells on it at that moment to test, Supernova is the only option I guess, or the arcane bomb (nether tempest)(or also Arcane Explosion or Cone of Cold). Alternatively, it could be a constant delay.

Then again, the spell has no duration info on its tooltip at all so what if it's 12.2sec? Or is there a LUA command that returns that info reliably from the game code?

edit: wowdb has no info on that and they are good at datamining that sort of thing lately. wowhead does list it 12sec which might imply it can be datamined.
User avatar
Curnivore
Posts: 827
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:26 am

Re: Prismatic crystal min/max

Unread postby Curnivore Mon May 09, 2016 5:13 pm

There are some peculiar stuff you might discover if you look into ID 76933 which is the NPC of the actual crystal. The NPC drops power (of type energy) from full to nothing in exactly 12 steps which might imply they occur every exactly 1 sec, however, each step doesn't look perfectly in sync with the previous step which might imply inherent server latency (for instance a random delay of a few tens of milliseconds each step because of a server not running on high FPS/sending updates irregularly). At the same time it's funny that wowhead lists the spell with the ability to do "Defense", a mob ability from Blackrock Foundry, and wowdb additionally lists it being able to do a version of Rune of Power among other things.

edit: Fist step is 100, 2nd is 92, then it's 84 -> 75 -> 67 -> 59 -> 50 -> 42 -> 34 -> 25 -> 17 -> 9 -> 0

It does stay at 0 for "around a second or more" (it doesn't disappear immediately after it does 9->0).
Searix
Posts: 233
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: Prismatic crystal min/max

Unread postby Searix Mon May 09, 2016 9:36 pm

There are some peculiar stuff you might discover if you look into ID 76933 which is the NPC of the actual crystal. The NPC drops power (of type energy) from full to nothing in exactly 12 steps which might imply they occur every exactly 1 sec, however, each step doesn't look perfectly in sync with the previous step which might imply inherent server latency (for instance a random delay of a few tens of milliseconds each step because of a server not running on high FPS/sending updates irregularly). At the same time it's funny that wowhead lists the spell with the ability to do "Defense", a mob ability from Blackrock Foundry, and wowdb additionally lists it being able to do a version of Rune of Power among other things.

edit: Fist step is 100, 2nd is 92, then it's 84 -> 75 -> 67 -> 59 -> 50 -> 42 -> 34 -> 25 -> 17 -> 9 -> 0

It does stay at 0 for "around a second or more" (it doesn't disappear immediately after it does 9->0).
The energy bar has been super inconsistent from personal experience as well. Sometimes the crystal despawns and i swear it had ~10% energy left, and other times the crystal is at 0 energy for a fraction of a second
Searix
Posts: 233
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: Prismatic crystal min/max

Unread postby Searix Mon May 09, 2016 9:48 pm

How exactly are you measuring this 12.2-12.3 figure? What is being measured here?
Image

I've been measuring it by setting the weakaura to 12.2 seconds, and seeing if I can POM-AB at the last possible time (well, mainly just watching to see when crystal despawns, or if the weakaura despawns first)

Secretly I've been hoping someone with recording software would test this stuff out for me as I don't record videos currently
User avatar
Komma
Administrator
Posts: 1486
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 7:37 pm

Re: Prismatic crystal min/max

Unread postby Komma Tue May 10, 2016 3:08 am

There is a delay between Prismatic Crystal being casted, and the mob being summoned. It's probably better to measure the time between Prismatic Crystal's summon and destruction events.
Admin of Altered Time.

Have an issue with the website or moderation? Send me a PM!

Return to “Arcane”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests