7.1.5 - Arcane Mage Guide - Updated: 02-16-2017

Guides and discussions of all things specific to the Mana Adepts of Azeroth.
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x1xruex1x
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7.1.5 - Arcane Mage Guide - Updated: 02-16-2017

Unread postby x1xruex1x Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:38 am

Patch 7.1.5 - Arcane Mage Guide (PvE)
Last Guide Update: February 01, 2017
Updates & Notices - As of: Feb 16, 2017
Hey all, sorry that I've not been as active as I was in the past. Unfortunately, there's been a lot of Real Life and In-Game drama to deal with. Regarding in-game, I'm going to need to switch to a tanking role, so I won't be able to main my mage for some time. Definitely not happy about this, but everytime our group gets a tank, it doesn't seem to last long before they depart for elsewhere.

I'll still swing by, but updates will be irregular. I'd highly suggest checking out Nelfy's YouTube and Altered-Time guides as he's been very active in the mage community and has great insight.

Please feel free to continue reaching out if you have inquiries as I can still assist, I just won't be able to maintain the same level of dedication that I originally had.

May the Arcane see well over your powers!

~Rue~



Youtube Videos & Informational Links:
Rue’s 7.1.5 Guidance & Discussion Video: https://youtu.be/XLmXA4sd1lg
Nelfy’s 7.1.5 Guide: https://youtu.be/wN40JnjnAb8
Binkenstein's Trinket List: http://imgur.com/a/qZyCb
___________________

Personal Details:... This is in my signature now

___________________

Acronym Legend:
Sometimes we abbreviate where we can within the guides to help explain things quicker. If you happen to come across weird letter combinations, chances are they’re one of these. Please remember, this is not a complete list, but I wanted to give acronyms for most applicable spells and talent choices, since I’ve encountered a lot of these in the forums.

Core Spells:
Spoiler:
AB = Arcane Blast
AM = Arcane Missiles
AE = Arcane Explosion
ABarr = Arcane Barrage
MoA = Mark of Aluneth

AC = Arcane Charges
AP = Arcane Power
TotM = Touch of the Magi
Evo = Evocation
Pom = Presence of Mind
Talents:
Spoiler:
AF = Arcane Familiar
Amp = Amplification
WoP = Words of Power

RoP = Rune of Power
IF = Incanter’s Flow

SN = Supernova
CU = Charged Up
NT = Nether Tempest

OP = Overpowered
TF = Temporal Flux
AO = Arcane Orb

Retired:
Spoiler:
Q = Quickening
___________________


~~Guidance, Rotation, How-To’s~~

Updated: February 01, 2017

Standard Arcane Mage 7.1.5 Build
This build revolves around strong burn phases to off-set lower damage conservation phases. Even though I wouldn’t really call it a conservation phase honestly. It’s more like a control phase. So for the purposes of this, and to hopefully change the outlook of the phase, I’ll refer to it as “Control Phase” going forward.

The below image shows off most of the ideal talents to choose. There are a couple wherein you have the ability to change them to better suit your playstyle or the fight at hand.

The overall output seems to be in the mid 300k range to low 400k while under the Control phase. The peaks during the burn phase look to be anywhere from 600k~ to about 900k~ based on your own gearing, playstyle, and luck.

Let’s begin.



Selected Talents & Stats:
Image
(Img is pre January 24 hotfix)

Stat Priority
With regards to Stats, the common concurrence of the community is that Crit and Haste have a better value over Mastery. While Versatility seems to fall to your own choice in this lineup. I’ll outline the priorities that I am going with for my mage.

Critical Strike > Haste > Mastery > Versatility

Just for clarity purposes, here’s how the stat rating affect the percentage, as per WoW Head
wowhead.com/secondary-stat-changes-in-patch-7-1-5

Critical Strike: 400 rating is equal to 1% for the stat.
Haste: 375 rating is equal to 1% for the stat.

Mastery: 400 rating is equal to 1% for the +Max Mana & +Mana Regen. 666.6 rating is equal to 1% AC Damage
Versatility: 475 / 900 for +1% to +Damage & +Healing / Damage Reduction



One point of note/contention, is Neck Enchants
I have been testing out Mark of the Claw since January 21st, and have noticed that it competes heavily with Mark of the Hidden Satyr. Essentially it's a +1,000/+1,000 Crit/Haste buff that lasts for 6 seconds, and procs about as often as Satyr does from what I've experienced. Satyr itself is just a flat damage proc, but I feel that if you can track your Claw buff, and get lucky during a burn phase, you can squeeze out an extra 1-2 AB's. Which I think can lend itself to greater damage output. Satyr is typically only worth about 3% of my overall damage for a fight on any given encounter, if that. So yea. Not saying swap to this just yet, but throwing out the thought.


Talent Selection

http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=236628/amplification- With a +12% AM damage per AC stack, this is a VERY good option. A flat +dam increase per AC stack is preferable if you’re trying to get started in Arcane.

Familiar is more mana which is more casts, but not by a huge amount so it’s not a huge increase of damage in that nature.

Words of Power is just a chance to proc AM. If you’ve been stacking Artifact Relics to increase your AM proc chance, then this may be a better option as more AM casts equates to more damage overall and will eventually compensate for the lack of damage increase from AMP.


http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=236457/slipstream - This tier is dealers choice in my opinion. Shimmer is great, but Slipstream does a similar function, but under different circumstances. I don’t personally find Mana Shield very useful in raiding environments, but in some cases (like Trilliax) I’ve found some use with it. Either way, your choice ;-)

http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=116011/rune-of-power - Overall, Rune of Power is still very powerful with regards to most encounters. Even though it’s been dropped by 10% damage (Now 40% from 50%), it’s still outweighing Mirror Image in most, if not all, cases.

Incanter’s Flow is still always desireable on high movement fights, but even at that, in most cases you can find 10 seconds of stationary combat in most all fights. With regards to IF, it comes down to management of your buffs. There’s a few Weak Aura strings out there that will give you a growing and shrinking bar to easily track when would be best to begin burning during IF. However, it doesn’t fit my playstyle, so I shy away from IF. I have heard of multiple occasions where IF competes heavily against RoP when used properly.


http://www.wowhead.com/spell=205032/charged-up - When it comes to this tier, there’s options based on your playstyle. I personally enjoy Charged Up the most as it allows me to be in control of my clears roughly every minute, as I don’t just use it on cooldown basically. (As for myself, I just recently got the Kilt, so this definitely helps to extend burning instances).

Resonance is a good choice if you want to work against a mass of adds, and it even has single target benefits as it’s a flat +25% damage to 1 target, but increasing per AC charge.

Supernova is a bit up in the air right now. Some are saying it works great for single target, but I haven’t seen much else about this, nothing to really check against. However, I’ve seen people saying that with Temporal Flux, this seems to give you better control of your long blasting increments by breaking them up all the slightly.


http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=205036/ice-ward - I’ll revamp this as it’s a complete option which you choose here. Personally, I’m fond of Chrono Shift or Ice Ward. I’ve yet to find a good instance where Ring of Frost is viable, but I imagine for WQ or PvP it’s a solid pick. Just my picture up above was taken before writing this, and I flip flop a lot with this tier.

http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=205039/erosion - This pick feels like it’s the most consistent damage increase there is.

While Unstable Magic has higher output if you’re spamming AB during burn phases,.. IF (not Incanter’s Flow) you get lucky with the 20% chance to proc the 50% damage explosion. However, it’s less than a 1 in 5 chance of occurring, so it’s a bit…unstable….(see what I did there! I’m so punny!).

I prefer to have consistency in my output. While Erosion has a ramp up time, it’s consistent as long as you’re focusing.

Nether Tempest,..well, unless your’e stacking haste, or going with a TF build, I’d shy from this one.


http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=155147/overpowered - In the end, for this build, this thing is the MVP. While there is a time and place for TF and Arcane Orb, this one seems to be the best for raid encounters in most scenarios. Granted it got a 10% nerf recently (70% > 60%) it still has a great feel about it.


Rotation
sorry for this being short and sloppy (if that), just late at night for me and I need to document this quickly. I'll touch it up tomorrow ^_^

*Reminder, this rotation is based on the above selected talents*
Also, whenever you see “AM”, it’s stating that IF you have an AM available, cast it, if not, move onto the next step.


Opening
• Prepot w/ your choice of Prolonged Power or Deadly Grace
• AB until 4 AC stacks accrued
• IF: AM available, then cast once
• IF: AM is not available, continue AB until an AM is avail, or you have 8 Erosion stacks, whichever happens first.
• @ 8 Erosion Stacks: MoA > RoP > AP > AM x3 > AB > @3 Seconds left on AP use PoM > ABx2



Burn Phase
This phase begins at 8 stacks of Erosion on your target
• MoA > RoP > AP > AM x3 > AB til 3s remain on AP > PoM > ABx2 (AP ends)
• RoP > AM > AB

A this point, it’s prioritize AB unless you get 3 AM stacks.
If you chose Slipstream, bank 1 AM for movement purposes, but never let the buff fall off, use it or lose it

• Once you can no longer cast AB, clear any AM you have. If enough mana came back for 1 AB, use it.
• Finally, if there is not enough mana to cast AB, and no AM stacks (unless you’re banking 1), then EVO


Control Phase
*Renamed from Conservation Phase as you almost don’t care about mana too much during this. Instead it’s about controlling your output enough that you don’t go OOM, and have enough mana to utilize a full AP, belting out AB’s during it without hitting OOM during. For most folks, this will be around 20-30% mana.

*Avoid casting AM once your Evocation is completed. I know that this is carry-over from Quickening in the past, but you want to use your mana, not stay capped at 100%*

• AB until around 30% mana > AM > ABarr

*There are two rotations here based on your Mastery, Playstyle, and Mana levels*
• If Mana Regen is ample: ABx4 > AM > ABarr
• If Mana Regen is poor or you have very little mana: ABx2 > AM > ABarr

This is a complete judgment call section. You will know your mage’s mana and casting feels best. For me, I find that if I’m a bit skittish, so if I’m higher than 40% mana, I do ABx4 > AM > ABarr. However, once I’m below 40%, I kick over to the ABx2 > AM > ABarr.

Now, I did just get the Kilt, so that buckles this rotation a bit since you can go to almost no mana, and by weaving ABarr’s with 2-3 AC stacks, you can get yourself up to near 50% mana with relative easy and damage output. Granted, when I provide numbers back to the community, I will not be providing damage numbers while using a legendary’s power. Legendary is ok, but the equip power is not, so I have plain pants on reserve for testing.


Conditions for next Burn
• ~30-40% mana
• AP Off CD
• 20-35-s CD remaining on Evo
• RoP x1 avail minimum
• *Preferred* MoA avail to replicate your original opening burn

Rinse and repeat my fellow magi,.. rinse and repeat…



_____________________________

~~Conclusion~~

Overall, the Arcane Mage is not necessarily struggling right now, but it's not at the peak of the charts. I know a lot of people have said they're bottom of the barrel, but I must dispute back that we don't even have 1 month's worth of data to go off of. Let alone, if a small handful of logs get out there, and they're not "up to snuff" people get the impression they're bad so they don't give arcane the proper try out that it deserves. They're too scared to put themselves out there for it. In that regard, the few of us putting our logs out there, we're still learning the changes to the playstyles. If you claim to be a master of Arcane right now but state the logs show they're horrible,.. well I'd be hard pressed to believe you as you've barely had a chance to truly unlock the potential of this spec.

Give it some time everyone. No need to cry that it's the end of the world for us. I think we're perfectly fine. We bring enough to the raid group that we're still welcomed around. Are we kings of the single target burn right now? I've seen better. However, we're not horrible by any stretch o the imagination.

Keep your chins up everyone. Things will work out and be fine ^_^

As always, you're welcomed to reach out to myself directly via my battle-tag in my signature section. I'm on most evenings (eastern standard time), and usually can set time aside to speak about the mage.

By no means am I the perfect mage. Lol, I'd scoff at that if someone called me it. I'm a Normal tiered raider, going into Heroics shortly. I used to be a hardcore raider years ago, but gave that lifestyle up because I'm just too busy to dedicate that sort of time and effort into a game.

Just keep things civil, and lets make the Arcane Mage a fun class-spec to play and have it be desirable by our love for it ^_^
Last edited by x1xruex1x on Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:30 pm, edited 40 times in total.
~Rue~
User Details:
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Battle Tag: Rue#1731
Character: Felona
Realm: Llane
Faction: Alliance
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a0kalittlema0n
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.0.3 - as of 9-28-16

Unread postby a0kalittlema0n Sat Oct 01, 2016 4:40 pm

So glad to see others interested in serious Arcane mage discussion!

I'm Nëlfy from Aerie Peak - US. Here is my Warcraftlogs page (keep in mind I have BiS Legendary atm). Also a link to my armory. I Raid lead a mythic raid team that is "semi-hardcore" 3 days a week. This is our first tier raiding from the beginning, our guild started mid HFC.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/c ... 723/latest
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/a ... lfy/simple

Mastery - 35.18%
Crit - 27.03%
Haste - 12.30%
Vers - 5.29%

Trinkets:
870 Wriggling Sinew
825 Devilsaur Shock-Baton

First I'd like to state that I think Fire mage atm will pull better numbers in raid in most senarios, so don't expect me to argue against that, but I do think there is a place for arcane in raids, even in mythic raiding.

I picked Arcane because I feel the skill cap is much higher, has more intriguing play-style changes and rotation, will get better as expansion goes on, have more interesting 4 set, artifact abilities, talent possibilities, and raid play-style to keep me interested throughout the expansion. Also arcane seems to do better when you're on a progression boss and you can start to get a better tmining of the fights, since that is a lot of how arcane works is timing.

First thing I'd like to say is that I use these talents choices and i'll explain the differences from yours atm

Talents:
Arcane Familiar
Shimmer
Rune of Power
Supernova (raid) and Resonance (Il'gynoth and Dungeons)
Ice Floes
Nether Tempest
Quickening

The main differences here is using Resonance, Arcane Familiar, and Ice Floes from your setup

Let me tell you that using Ice Floes and using it correctly in raid is going to be a substantial DPS increase since you can cast while moving for mechanics. This is a staple of mage that it just unpassable as a talent in raid settings.

Arcane Familiar atm is just what is "simming" highest. It gives you damage near that of a trinket passively and 10% mana overall so it just outperforms WoP. Personally I'd LIKE to use WoP and have it be better (which I feel it will be later in tier 20 TBH) but it just doesn't work really well with Quickening and having AF being so much better than it. I also feel that it limits the one strength Arcane has against most other classes which is having mana as an additional CD, you can burn it whenever you want for whatever add/situation and then conserve until CDs are up. This limits that strength and punishes you for using that capability as Arcane.

As well for dungeons (I can't remember perfectly) but it looks like you went for Touch of the Magi instead of the Arcane Rebound, which makes you a little less useful in dungeons, Arcane Rebound combined with resonance for AoE is just amazing.

What helps as well if boss ST damage isn't an issue for your "comp" in a dungeon, you can run Arcane Orb to build up to 4 stacks quicker, and if i hit 4 AC > MoA > RoP > AP > Barrage > AO > Barrage and that AoE burst is only paralleled by WW monks and Affliction AoE burst from my experience. I typically hit 1.2M+ for that burst depending on how many mobs are stacked. Also AO is up so much that you can barrage a lot more often with 4 stacks and spend less time casting AB.

As for opening sequence, I do the following.

AB to 4 AC stacks > NT > SN > MoA > RoP > AP > AB/AM > RoP

Reason for my order is that you only get maybe 1 tick of MoA outside of RoP, then you get the full usage of AP to cast with MoA already ticking, and you get more usage out of RoP in comparison to your order. Also you have NT already ticking, you can save SN for after you hit both RoP and AP, but I like to get it on CD asap.

I also hold onto a AM charge near the end, and if we're heroing on pull I sometimes wait until I Evo for the second RoP since I'll have nearly an additional 20 Quickening stacks to burn more inside RoP depending on how the fight is honestly.
Last edited by a0kalittlema0n on Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Vorrum
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.0.3 - as of 9-28-16

Unread postby Vorrum Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:29 pm

So glad to see others interested in serious Arcane mage discussion!

I'll update all my specs, talents, gear, etc when I get in game later, just wanted to get something down here.

First thing I'd like to say is that I use these talents choices and i'll explain the differences from yours atm

Talents:
Arcane Familiar
Shimmer
Rune of Power
Supernova (raid) and Resonance (Il'gynoth and Dungeons)
Ice Floes
Nether Tempest
Quickening

The main differences here is using Resonance, Arcane Familiar, and Ice Floes from your setup

Let me tell you that using Ice Floes and using it correctly in raid is going to be a substantial DPS increase since you can cast while moving for mechanics. This is a staple of mage that it just uspassable as a talent in raid settings.

Arcane Familiar atm is just what is "simming" highest. It gives you damage near that of a trinket passively and 10% mana overall so it just outperforms WoP. Personally I'd LIKE to use WoP and have it be better (which I feel it will be later in tier 20 TBH) but it just doesn't work really well with Quickening and having AF being so much better than it. I also feel that it limits the one strength Arcane has against most other classes which is having mana as an additional CD, you can burn it whenever you want for whatever add/situation and then conserve until CDs are up. This limits that strength and punishes you for using that capability as Arcane.

As well for dungeons (I can't remember perfectly) but it looks like you went for Touch of the Magi instead of the arcane barrage golden dragon, which makes you a little less useful in dungeons, but that gold dragon combined with resonance for AoE is just amazing.

What helps as well if boss ST damage isn't an issue for your "comp" in a dungeon, you can run Arcane Orb to build up to 4 stacks, MoA > RoP > AP > Barrage > AO > Barrage and that AoE burst is basically unparallaled from my experience. I typically hit 1.2M for that burst depending on how many mobs are stacked. Also AO is up so much that you can barrage a lot more often with 4 stacks and spend less time casting AB.

As for opening sequence, I do the following.

AB to 4 AC stacks > NT > SN > MoA > RoP > AP > AB/AM > RoP

Reason for my order is that you only get maybe 1 tick of MoA outside of RoP, then you get the full usage of AP to cast with MoA already ticking, and you get more usage out of RoP in comparison to your order. Also you have NT already ticking, you can save SN for after you hit both RoP and AP, but I like to get it on CD asap.

I also hold onto a AM charge near the end, and if we're heroing on pull I sometimes wait until I Evo for the second RoP since I'll have nearly an additional 20 Quickening stacks to burn more inside RoP depending on how the fight is honestly.
Whats your damage like, I've been trying arcane and can't seem to do well. I do very well as fire and I am usually top of the meters in my raids but arcane is just odd for me at the moment. I'll try some things you have listed.
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a0kalittlema0n
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.0.3 - as of 9-28-16

Unread postby a0kalittlema0n Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:40 am

As far as numbers it's a hard comparison for me atm. Only did one run of normals before the second week when I got the BiS Legendary so I can't compare my DPS to yours :(

Somewhere around 240/250k with DG pots though.

#firstworldproblems

BUT I can say that Arcane is much more difficult and you'll need to invest more time to be able to play it well. You'll need to play it well to be able to be remotely on par with fire since 90% of your damage on fire mage is being able to execute a 10 second CD window well and the damage outside of it is basically irrelevant (completely overstated it I know) so it's much easier to execute that well, mess up a few times outside and be ok. Arcane is not that way, you mess up by ABarraging too early and losing quickening stacks, cut off a cast of Evocation, or desync your Arcane Power and Evocation and GG your rank for that pull.
Zamui
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.0.3 - as of 9-28-16

Unread postby Zamui Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:04 am

guys what is the stats priority right know?
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a0kalittlema0n
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.0.3 - as of 9-28-16

Unread postby a0kalittlema0n Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:06 am

Stat priorities are really close and change depending on your individual gear, but its roughly

Int > Mastery > Vers > Crit > Haste if i remember correctly

The real answer is "Sim yourself" though TBH
Eona
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.0.3 - as of 9-28-16

Unread postby Eona Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:09 am

Hey, Timed from Stormrage. Heres a bit of input I have on arcane after playing it in raids so far.

Trinkets:
840 Shock-Baton
830 Spiked Tongue
845 Caged Horror for Aoe.

In raids, I've been playing;
Arcane Familiar
Shimmer
Rune of Power
Supernova
Ice Floes
Nether Tempest
Quickening

I personally feel like Ice Floes is irreplaceable, except on Xavius where you never move, except for the glaive attack which you can just shimmer than displace.
For Familiar, I prefer the extra mana over the rng of WoP, and at the same time it does sim the highest (not that the difference is very big).
Resonance is dungeons is pretty insane for dps if you picked up Arcane Rebound already since for most trash, you can just spam AE to 4 stacks, barrage, and repeat.

I also have a full EN Normal clear during our alt run of only playing arcane for this week if anyone wants to take a look. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/c ... 61/latest/" target="_blank (Click Normal > Arcane), (Our Nythendra kill didn't get logged so that;s why its not there). Also for reference, I don't have any legendary.

Little notes on each boss as arcane;

Nythendra: Pretty much an arcane fight, stand still towards the outside of the room, dps, thats about it.

Il'gynoth: Considering this is a trash/cleave based boss, I found resonance to be more useful here. (I shouldn't have used Spiked Tongue for this)

Elerethe: Arcane was a bit odd here, use AE for spiders when they're down, otherwise its the normal thing, Shimmer+Displace and Icy Floes makes the pushback portion of the darkwing form phase quite trivial which is pretty nice.

Ursoc: Also an arcane fight I thought, just need to make sure you save your AP at the right time so you have it for Timewarp. (I shouldn't have used Spiked Tongue for this)

Dragons of Nightmare: Didn't love this one as arcane, requires bursts of cleave and aoe which fire fills the niche for pretty well, that being said if MoA is up it does burst down the shadows/extra dragons pretty quickly.

Cenarius: This fight was horrible as arcane, cooldowns didn't line up at all, didn't have AP for Timewarp, all in all I feel like I'd need more pulls to be comfortable on this fight, but that being said it wasn't very enjoyable at all.

Xavius: This fight was very nice as arcane, especially if you went into the dream, Shimmer and displace take care of what little movement there is. This is the only fight I'd suggest using Cauterize on.

All that being said, I in a way disagree with the statement that Arcane is far more difficult to play than fire (haven't played frost at all so not gonna claim that). Desyncing your Evo and AP is only a problem if you, for some reason didn't burn when you used AP. Breaking your Evo on accident can be solved by simply macro-ing icy floes to it if your worried about it. As well, Nether Tempest allows you to recover from a mana mess up without losing too much in the long run. (A situation such as using AP early, being oom before your Evo is up, you can spam NT for AM procs while you wait.)
Eona
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.0.3 - as of 9-28-16

Unread postby Eona Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:11 am


Whats your damage like, I've been trying arcane and can't seem to do well. I do very well as fire and I am usually top of the meters in my raids but arcane is just odd for me at the moment. I'll try some things you have listed.
I see the same thing honestly, as fire I'm consistently high on the meters, and with arcane it tends to depend on whether I end the fight in a burn phase with AP or not.
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x1xruex1x
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.0.3 - as of 9-28-16

Unread postby x1xruex1x Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:32 pm

Stat priorities are really close and change depending on your individual gear, but its roughly

Int > Mastery > Vers > Crit > Haste if i remember correctly

The real answer is "Sim yourself" though TBH
I definitely agree with the priorities here for the most part. Although, I feel like Crit and Versatility are closer enough together that you could say each are equal almost to one another. I've been keeping an eye out for gear that mainly focuses on Mastery, and then if it has Versatility or Crit, I'm down for it. I haven't found any details that declare you should definitely prioritize Vers over Crit, or vice versa, anywhere yet.
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x1xruex1x
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.0.3 - as of 9-28-16

Unread postby x1xruex1x Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:47 pm

Hey all, sorry I haven't replied since my initial posting. Busy weekend!

Anywho tho. I've read through the posts. I find it very intriguing that Arcane Familiar, Ice Flows, and the Artifact Talent - Arcane Rebound seem to be so highly sought after in most scenarios.

I guess my thinking to it is, I'm going to be raiding as of October 7, and our raid group has plenty of AoE players already, so I'm kind of leaning towards the 1-2 target agenda. Good for those "Hey burst that thing down NOW" moments.
I've been playing with the Touch of the Magi variant instead of Arcane Rebound, and as far as general DPS output, I'm floating around 210-235k dps in most idealistic fights. Things where I have to keep moving, I'm definitely suffering in, and I know it's because I haven't chosen the Ice Flows talent.

I just feel like going with more and more items that require extra APMs is just getting tedious, and I've been making sacrifices to avoid extra button presses. Kind of need to get off my high horse and just eat the bullet on it. I was doing a Mythic+ Black Rook Hold yesterday morning, and definitely felt the pain of having to move for the first and third bosses and having to halt my dps because the shimmer didn't cut it.

So I'm going to swap into Ice Flows to work that into my playstyle.

As far as the Words of Power versus Arcane Familiar, I'll give it a whirl today while playing. I keep forgetting that the thing actually does damage output. Although, I always find it disappearing on me randomly. Not sure if I'm doing something wrong, or it's just peeving off random mobs while I'm not looking and getting killed. So i'm going to setup a Weak Aura for myself that'll remind me to summon it if it's not out.

I did like what a0kalittlema0n stated about the Rune of Power and Mark of Aluneth though. I honestly never even thought of that.

So I'll place down my Mark of Aluneth first, then pop Rune of Power. I think I was under the impression that it was snapshotting the damage. Like, if I poppeed arcane power, rune of power, THEN Mark of Aluneth (or any spell for that matter), the ultimate damage for it was at that moment in time, even if it ticked on past the RoP or AP buff durations. Being that it doesn't seem to be the case, that opens up a bit of skill mobility for myself. I was always trying to squeeze in a Nether Tempest, Supernova, Mark of Aluneth, and as many Arcane Missiles as humanly possible before the duration would expire. But if that's the case, then I can put the NT, and MoA on just before popping, and then that'll open me up to focus more on the other abilities that I can squeeze in.
So yea, thank you for that input. I'll let you all know how it turns out for me.

As for Arcane Resonance & Arcane Rebound,.. I know both of you (a0kalittlema0n & Eona) brought up the dungeon aspect and damage output these have tied together, let alone just Arcane Resonance in general. I'm thinking, I still want to maintain the Touch of the Magi since I'm focusing on single target damage mostly. I guess it's because Arcane Mages were never really good with AoE, so they always tended to prefer Single Targeting over anything else. I know that with Legion it's changed and they're very good with AoE. Go me for hanging onto the past. I guess, the question therein lies is this:

"what is the most ideal AoE rotation that you've found utilizing Arcane Resonance (and/or Arcane Rebound,..or both)"

Let me know what you guys think. When I've done AoE in Legion so far, I'd do the below:

AE x 4 > NT > SN > AB
Repeating at cooldown intervals.
But only on 3+ mobs, anything less and I go back to single target mode.

Oh, by the way, I'm open for in-game whispers if anyone ever wants to reach out to me.
My battle-tag is: Rue#1731

~Rue~
~Rue~
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m3nsky
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.0.3 - as of 9-28-16

Unread postby m3nsky Sun Oct 02, 2016 9:10 pm

Hey all, sorry I haven't replied since my initial posting. Busy weekend!
As far as the Words of Power versus Arcane Familiar, I'll give it a whirl today while playing. I keep forgetting that the thing actually does damage output. Although, I always find it disappearing on me randomly. Not sure if I'm doing something wrong, or it's just peeving off random mobs while I'm not looking and getting killed. So i'm going to setup a Weak Aura for myself that'll remind me to summon it if it's not out.
~Rue~
Randomly dying, yes, it also expires after 60mins, so forgetting that there adds to it.
Did the same thing you suggested, just with TellMeWhen instead of WeakAuras, set a huge icon up to show if the buff from arcane familiar is missing.
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.0.3 - as of 9-28-16

Unread postby Eona Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:45 am

"what is the most ideal AoE rotation that you've found utilizing Arcane Resonance (and/or Arcane Rebound,..or both)"

Let me know what you guys think. When I've done AoE in Legion so far, I'd do the below:

AE x 4 > NT > SN > AB
Repeating at cooldown intervals.
But only on 3+ mobs, anything less and I go back to single target mode.
For me, I usually AE x4, NT, RoP, MoA, Barrage, AE x4, repeat. If MoA isn't up and I don't have RoP I pretty much just spam AE x4 and Barrage while keeping NT up, since resonance does so much damage.
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.0.3 - as of 9-28-16

Unread postby x1xruex1x Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:50 am

Just a quick update on numbers. Reached one of my highest DPS marks. Granted it was only a 1minute 28second fight against a World Quest Danger-Boss out in Suramar City.

I had switched to Ice Flows and Arcane Familiar. Did my normal routine and also focused on using MoA just before RoP.

346k dps
36% AB
17% AM
13% MoA

28.43M over 1m 30s fight 112+ Nightborne
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.0.3 - as of 9-28-16

Unread postby Mrbrown Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:17 pm

Hey guys, awsome post. I want this to keep going.
Just wanted to something regards to ur burst. Its supose to be AB x2 then MoA then AB x2 the Rop then cds..
I do 260k singel target dummy, consistent. 853ilvl. 45% mastery and im using words of power tallent
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.0.3 - as of 9-28-16

Unread postby rab Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:21 pm

may i ask why ABx2 - MoA - ABx2 instead of ABx4 - MoA?

if you cast MoA right before RoP&AP most of the ticks will get buffed. i see no upside for casting it 2ABs before
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.0.3 - as of 9-28-16

Unread postby x1xruex1x Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:22 pm

Hey guys, awsome post. I want this to keep going.
Just wanted to something regards to ur burst. Its supose to be AB x2 then MoA then AB x2 the Rop then cds..
I do 260k singel target dummy, consistent. 853ilvl. 45% mastery and im using words of power tallent
I definitely agree, lets keep this discussion ongoing!

Anywho tho. I do like that you're presenting here. So the concept here is building up half of your charges, hitting mark, finishing the rest of your charges, and having RoP w/ AP just as MoA is about to complete? That's what it sounds like if I'm not misunderstanding it. It does sound interesting though, and I'll be sure to dabble with it later tonight.

I guess the question I have is this. Words of Power won't factor into your MoA explosion, but Arcane Familiar will. If you swap WoP to Arcane Familiar, what does your dps look like on the raider's target dummy?

Also, do you happen to have a rough timeframe for how long your test was over? I'm guessing only a minute or two if you're talking burst.

Thanks for the input ^_^

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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.0.3 - as of 9-28-16

Unread postby x1xruex1x Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:24 pm

may i ask why ABx2 - MoA - ABx2 instead of ABx4 - MoA?

if you cast MoA right before RoP&AP most of the ticks will get buffed. i see no upside for casting it 2ABs before

Not sure either, but I'm willing to trial it out myself. Sometimes trying something gives more insight than thinking about the pros and cons. From what I gather, it's not the ticking damage, but the final explosion that he's trying to put on the RoP & AP cooldowns, and then because there's more build up prior to that, a possibility of more AM's because of the slight break to cast MoA. Being at higher mana longer gives more AM chance.
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.0.3 - as of 9-28-16

Unread postby Mrbrown Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:28 pm

Hello. Abit sorry for my first post, it was short and not very well written, haha. I had bad time when i posted it.

Yeah, MoA thicks are not strong enouf to have in ur RoP + AP burns. You want the last thick tho, thats actually strong, and will keep on getting stronger :) (15% of ur total mana)
I dont even think in huge aoe pulls in dungeons u want this inside RoP burst. AE is way to srong.

So this opening AB x 2, MoA then AB x2 is absolutely ur strongest opening with bloodlust when ur using the Resonance tallent. (Yesterday we had many tries on the nightmare dragons HC, and u will be hitting 3-4mobs together, and makes resonance a must!) Also the Eye boss u need resonance.

For most of the other bosses i have been tryin out charge up, and yeah your first opening burst gets abit stronger, but with so low haste, any opening without bloodlust is a pain to watch.. Its litterly broken :P So i have actually been thinking about delaying opening burst abit, get like 10 stacks maybe then go. But then again ur mana will be a problem, and maybe u just need to do all cds in start anyway, i think so actaully, but should be tried out.

But yeah, you also wanna be troll mage, i dont think the simming is corecct here, ive read its like only few points between troll and orc, but that 15% haste inc is a must for ur opening. Or when u get the legendary (2 x bloodlust) so u can use bloodlust for all openings ur fine.

Maybe we need moore haste, like Master -> haste -> crit/versa
Currently i belive in Mastery -> crit -> haste -> versa.
Mastery is so strong! Crit i think if u get around 25-30% will be very good, i see those burst i sometimes have with many crits, they are very strong (600k +) and i think some of the gear atleast in mythic+ dungeons give mastery - crit.
But if u cant get ur crit even over 20% then yeah, maybe u should just dump it all and go versa / haste.

I still belive mainly becasue of the quickening tallent that we shouldent gear haste. And i also hope they will fix this tallent, just have it as it was.
Only thing they needed to do was to fix Nether Tempest, wich was the problem in the first place! And they have, i can't seem to get any procs by applying NT anymoore, like 1 out of 25 ish.
So plz blizzard, give us the 100 stack back!
And tbh it dosent even make sence, why would they stop it at 50, the number is odd. If they stop at 50 we should be able to reaply! Give us to 100, and u can stop the reaply :D
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.0.3 - as of 9-28-16

Unread postby Mrbrown Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:28 pm

Hello. Abit sorry for my first post, it was short and not very well written, haha. I had bad time when i posted it.

Yeah, MoA thicks are not strong enouf to have in ur RoP + AP burns. You want the last thick tho, thats actually strong, and will keep on getting stronger :) (15% of ur total mana)
I dont even think in huge aoe pulls in dungeons u want this inside RoP burst. AE is way to srong.

So this opening AB x 2, MoA then AB x2 is absolutely ur strongest opening with bloodlust when ur using the Resonance tallent. (Yesterday we had many tries on the nightmare dragons HC, and u will be hitting 3-4mobs together, and makes resonance a must!) Also the Eye boss u need resonance.

For most of the other bosses i have been tryin out charge up, and yeah your first opening burst gets abit stronger, but with so low haste, any opening without bloodlust is a pain to watch.. Its litterly broken :P So i have actually been thinking about delaying opening burst abit, get like 10 stacks maybe then go. But then again ur mana will be a problem, and maybe u just need to do all cds in start anyway, i think so actaully, but should be tried out.

But yeah, you also wanna be troll mage, i dont think the simming is corecct here, ive read its like only few points between troll and orc, but that 15% haste inc is a must for ur opening. Or when u get the legendary (2 x bloodlust) so u can use bloodlust for all openings ur fine.

Maybe we need moore haste, like Master -> haste -> crit/versa
Currently i belive in Mastery -> crit -> haste -> versa.
Mastery is so strong! Crit i think if u get around 25-30% will be very good, i see those burst i sometimes have with many crits, they are very strong (600k +) and i think some of the gear atleast in mythic+ dungeons give mastery - crit.
But if u cant get ur crit even over 20% then yeah, maybe u should just dump it all and go versa / haste.

I still belive mainly becasue of the quickening tallent that we shouldent gear haste. And i also hope they will fix this tallent, just have it as it was.
Only thing they needed to do was to fix Nether Tempest, wich was the problem in the first place! And they have, i can't seem to get any procs by applying NT anymoore, like 1 out of 25 ish.
So plz blizzard, give us the 100 stack back!
And tbh it dosent even make sence, why would they stop it at 50, the number is odd. If they stop at 50 we should be able to reaply! Give us to 100, and u can stop the reaply :D
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.0.3 - as of 9-28-16

Unread postby Mrbrown Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:33 pm

And for ur teir 1 tallent, u need words of power, all u ever want are those AM procs, and u will be at 80% + mana alot! giving u a 4% incerease. yeye, u need this. In dungeons heroics when u do sick pulls, and just empty all ur mana all the time then usre go with familiar.

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