7.1.5 - Arcane Mage Guide - Updated: 02-16-2017

Guides and discussions of all things specific to the Mana Adepts of Azeroth.
Pkm
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.1 - Updated: 11/02/2016

Unread postby Pkm Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:02 am

Can anyone please share a weak aura they use to track quickening stacks and duration. Thanks.
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x1xruex1x
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.1 - Updated: 11/02/2016

Unread postby x1xruex1x Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:07 pm

Can anyone please share a weak aura they use to track quickening stacks and duration. Thanks.
Weak Auras 2 comes pre-packaged with templates. If you click "NEW" then "From Template" you can select the style you want to show (Bar or Icon work best imo). After that, select the size/layout, and then select which item you want to show. You can select BUFFS and go to Quickening. It'll pop it on-screen and you can manipulate it as much as you want.

If you really need something that someone else has done, you can go to my OP and click the 7.1 Discussion video link. In the description of that video I have a google doc with strings for my previous WA setup.
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Roggles
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.1 - Updated: 11/02/2016

Unread postby Roggles Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:15 pm

Hello everyone,

I've been following the discussion here with a keen eye over the last week or so, and so far I've really enjoyed what I've been reading. Thanks for that!

I had some nice success with the throttle phase before, and reaching that HQ burn is super rewarding and I loved it when I pulled it off, but very often, that also didn't happen due to mechanics and such. :(

Things changed this weekend for me though. I was lucky enough to get the Kilt as my 2nd legendary (Absorb neck being the 1st), and I suddenly didn't feel like it was worth doing the throttle phase anymore. Now I'm wondering what do you guys think?

My ideal gameplan now is (depends on fight length):
1. Opener burn with 1 RoP: building quickening.
2. Evocate up to full mana at ~30 secs in.
3. Do a "MQ burn" with a full mana bar, ~25+ quickenings, AP and 2 RoPs (prolonged power still active).
4. Regen back to ~1k mana (build 4 ACs -> refresh NT -> spend AM procs -> cast ABarr).
5. ~1k mana start building quickening again as the next evo is starting to get ready.
6. "Medium burn" again after Evo.
7. Repeat.

On my non-extensive dummy testing this gives me clearly better results than the throttling at least.

During bosses, if delaying AP causes there to be 1 less cast during the whole fight, it shouldn't be delayed I think. That knowledge only comes with more pulls though, and every group at least I played with so far has varying levels of dps which makes guessing the timings difficult.

If you have any thoughts (or even better, math) about the above, or any other suggestions on how to alter the rotation with the Kilt, I would love to hear them. Also, do you think it might still be worth it to go for the throttle and HQ burn (especially when delaying the 1st AP would cause me to lose a cast)?

For reference, here's my armory:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... les/simple" target="_blank

And the only log I have so far with the Kilt (HC Xavius):
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tB ... amage-done" target="_blank


Thanks for reading and keep up the good job!

Kind regards,
Roggles
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x1xruex1x
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.1 - Updated: 11/02/2016

Unread postby x1xruex1x Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:03 pm

@Roggles,

First off, I hate you! I so badly want the darned Kilt!
Secondly, congrats on actually getting that thing!

So with that being said, I can't directly speak to the Kilt build that you have listed, but knowing the basics of the Kilt, this sounds like a good layout for handling it.

Best I can say is that I hope someone else who has the Kilt will be able to chime in to help advise with this.

Keep us posted as to the quality of dps you experience from having this.
~Rue~
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Kythos
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.1 - Updated: 11/02/2016

Unread postby Kythos Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:57 pm

Can anyone please share a weak aura they use to track quickening stacks and duration. Thanks.
https://wago.io/VyXPiK_q-" target="_blank
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Kythos
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.1 - Updated: 11/02/2016

Unread postby Kythos Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:40 pm

@Roggles

The Kilt!! congrats!

I feel you are correct and I agree with Rue, the kilt, especially with your current secondary stats, greatly benefits from barrage rotations after a MQ burn vs. a post MQ throttle to HQ.
The kilt allows 2/3 4ac barrage rotations (as you mentioned) to get back 32/48% percent mana actively + the passive regen from your solid mastery... 0 - 100, real quick. :P
This is key because it enables you a chance to regen your mana pool between Evocation CDs. With your current haste you also building up LQ faster, and get to do more from MQ burn (25 stacks). I am curious if you can sustain your steps 1-7 indefinitely... can you constantly getting to MQ for every time AP is back up?

With cutting out the need to throttle the kilt is the holy grail for arcane, IMO.

I have not tested this personally, since I do not have the Kilt, yet, ;) but your 400k+ DPS parse on H.Xav shows you are doing something right :)

-Kythos
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danieltang34
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.1 - Updated: 11/02/2016

Unread postby danieltang34 Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:53 am

I'm currently 860 with 53% mastery and legendary belt
How much dps should I be pushing? I'm just pushing 260 to 280k on dummies without buffs or bloodlust (100m damage test)
This is my dps strategy:
1. 4AB > single RoP LQburn until oom > evo
2. 2nd RoP MQ burn + 3rd RoP AP burn
3. 2+1 until evo is close to ready
4. Burn mana > evo (around 10Q, depending on procs )
5. Repeat 2~4

Am I doing it wrong?
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x1xruex1x
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.1 - Updated: 11/02/2016

Unread postby x1xruex1x Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:32 am

I'm currently 860 with 53% mastery and legendary belt
How much dps should I be pushing? I'm just pushing 260 to 280k on dummies without buffs or bloodlust (100m damage test)
This is my dps strategy:
1. 4AB > single RoP LQburn until oom > evo
2. 2nd RoP MQ burn + 3rd RoP AP burn
3. 2+1 until evo is close to ready
4. Burn mana > evo (around 10Q, depending on procs )
5. Repeat 2~4

Am I doing it wrong?
@Danieltang34,

I'm not super familiar with the belt, if I recall it's like % mana regen over 15 sec when you're below 40% mana?

If that's the case, I'd personally suggest this:

4AB > RoP > AP > LQ Burn til oom (using both RoP's during this phase) > Continue a medium burn until 60% (but with the belt, I'd drop to 40% to trigger the 15sec buff), then immediately go to Throttle, and once you hit around 70-80% I'd burn to 40% and then repeat.

Once AP is near available, get up to 80% then blow AP/RoP together as a HQ burn.

TL;DR -- Normal burn phase, but with belt, go to the % that triggers effect, then use that to help get you to near 80%, then burn it back down to the % trigger (based on internal cooldown). Repeat until proper HQ burn.

I hope this is helpful, but I don't have the belt, so please take this with a serious grain of salt.
~Rue~
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Ronark
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.1 - Updated: 11/02/2016

Unread postby Ronark Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:20 am

I'd add that with the belt, you would be better off using Familiar as you'll gain more from the MP5/Raw damage since you'll have a lower Throttle.
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.1 - Updated: 11/02/2016

Unread postby Roggles Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:45 pm

Thanks for the happy wishes, makes me a happy man indeed. :)

I've had very little time to play after getting the kilt, and won't have too much time these upcoming weeks either. :/ I'll try to get in a heroic EN run later this reset, but can't really say too much before I've had the chance to try it on more bosses.

Here's some additional thoughts that I've had so far:

My first impression is that the kilt makes the gameplay way more forgiving, as even if you mess it up (e.g. lose your stacks too early), it's still going to do pretty well as you can just recover mana and start building your stacks again at any time. Manawise, it's no problem to sustain a consistent 20-25 stack MQ burn for every AP. The hardest part is to time it perfectly so you don't waste time with evo and/or AP being off CD. Just requires some more getting used to (and maybe some more haste).

My biggest question mark at the moment are the stat values. As you already mentioned my haste level Kythos, I also feel that it has become a very good stat instead of being a very bad stat (currently sims higher than int for me). Also, when it comes to mastery, I'd expect it to be devalued by a fair bit, which I don't really like as I've geared for it so much. :) Might be a time to find a new sweet spot for it (gemming/enchanting for haste for starters).

I don't know how much I trust the sim weights though, as the APL doesn't quite match what I am doing, and I think it might play out a bit differently with the kilt. Admittedly, I think the default APL is closer to the kilt rotation than it is to the throttle->HQ burn. In my own mind, I'm thinking a mix of all secondaries is actually very likely to give the best results, as crit and versatility have been fairly strong stats for arcane all the time too, their priority changing depending on what I was missing before-

I'll have to find the time to raid a bit more and get a better feel of it, also trying to get some more haste on gear. I'll get back to you later when I've had more chances to try it out!

Cheers,
Roggles
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Saffina
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.1 - Updated: 11/02/2016

Unread postby Saffina Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:08 pm

is this the most current stat weight?

CritRating=6.76, MasteryRating=7.51, HasteRating=3.01, Intellect=9.01, Versatility=4.51
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x1xruex1x
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.1 - Updated: 11/02/2016

Unread postby x1xruex1x Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:30 pm

is this the most current stat weight?

CritRating=6.76, MasteryRating=7.51, HasteRating=3.01, Intellect=9.01, Versatility=4.51
@Saffina,

Unfortunately, I am unsure, but I would reckon to say that it looks on par with most suggestions. Personally I feel that versatility and crit are closer than this, but given how things tend to play out with versatility, this looks right to me.

Does anyone else have any more concrete data on stat weights?
~Rue~
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seoh
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.1 - Updated: 11/02/2016

Unread postby seoh Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:51 pm

You should really sim yourself for stat weights. I've simmed religiously from 840 to 870 and my dps has followed. I logged 400k on some nice duration pulls, despite not having a good legendary. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/d ... eoh/simple" target="_blank
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.1 - Updated: 11/02/2016

Unread postby danieltang34 Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:08 am

I'm currently 860 with 53% mastery and legendary belt
How much dps should I be pushing? I'm just pushing 260 to 280k on dummies without buffs or bloodlust (100m damage test)
This is my dps strategy:
1. 4AB > single RoP LQburn until oom > evo
2. 2nd RoP MQ burn + 3rd RoP AP burn
3. 2+1 until evo is close to ready
4. Burn mana > evo (around 10Q, depending on procs )
5. Repeat 2~4

Am I doing it wrong?
@Danieltang34,

I'm not super familiar with the belt, if I recall it's like % mana regen over 15 sec when you're below 40% mana?

If that's the case, I'd personally suggest this:

4AB > RoP > AP > LQ Burn til oom (using both RoP's during this phase) > Continue a medium burn until 60% (but with the belt, I'd drop to 40% to trigger the 15sec buff), then immediately go to Throttle, and once you hit around 70-80% I'd burn to 40% and then repeat.

Once AP is near available, get up to 80% then blow AP/RoP together as a HQ burn.

TL;DR -- Normal burn phase, but with belt, go to the % that triggers effect, then use that to help get you to near 80%, then burn it back down to the % trigger (based on internal cooldown). Repeat until proper HQ burn.

I hope this is helpful, but I don't have the belt, so please take this with a serious grain of salt.
Throttling doesn't work out too well for me, I'm not sure whether it's the gear or my execution
By using the LQ MQ conserve rotation I can pull simmed dps or even higher with good RNG(270~300k), but when I try to throttle i just get 250~270k dps which is consistently lower (I start bursting at 42)

The higher burst just doesn't seem to offset the loss while throttling, is LQ HQ supposed to do more dps when executed correctly?
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.1 - Updated: 11/02/2016

Unread postby Integ Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:15 am

have you guys ever tried juggling targets with NT on cleave fights or adds fight to work around the reduced chance to proc NT on same target ?
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Kythos
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.1 - Updated: 11/02/2016

Unread postby Kythos Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:36 am

@integ

When there is 4 or more adds I tend to "get in there" and AE spam then AE barrage rotation s when my mana is low.

With 2 or 3 adds, example Cen. In EN, I can see juggling between adds with NT and AMs to build Q stacks and save mana for burning main boss.

WoP and AM proc chance relics would be ideal.

If anyone has tested this, have logs, or support this theory please advise.
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.1 - Updated: 11/02/2016

Unread postby x1xruex1x Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:53 pm

@integ

When there is 4 or more adds I tend to "get in there" and AE spam then AE barrage rotation s when my mana is low.

With 2 or 3 adds, example Cen. In EN, I can see juggling between adds with NT and AMs to build Q stacks and save mana for burning main boss.

WoP and AM proc chance relics would be ideal.

If anyone has tested this, have logs, or support this theory please advise.
@Kythos,

I haven't tested this exact theory, but I have done bouncing between targets frequently when in dungeons. No logs yet, but I can start recording for that and provide what I can.

Essentially, in groups of 3-4 adds I'll go ahead and NT one target that's being focused by others, then just do AE spam to 4 AC stacks, then Refresh NT onto another target, then ABarr to clear.

Repeat AE spam til 4 AC, Refresh NT on another > ABarr clear.

It works well enough for me, but just doing straight AE spamming tends to produce a bit more damage output in my opinion, without clearing at all. During which you can toss on NT as it falls off.

I have tried the Abarr clearing because of Arcane Rebound.
~Rue~
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Vorrum
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.1 - Updated: 11/02/2016

Unread postby Vorrum Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:57 pm

@integ

When there is 4 or more adds I tend to "get in there" and AE spam then AE barrage rotation s when my mana is low.

With 2 or 3 adds, example Cen. In EN, I can see juggling between adds with NT and AMs to build Q stacks and save mana for burning main boss.

WoP and AM proc chance relics would be ideal.

If anyone has tested this, have logs, or support this theory please advise.
@Kythos,

I haven't tested this exact theory, but I have done bouncing between targets frequently when in dungeons. No logs yet, but I can start recording for that and provide what I can.

Essentially, in groups of 3-4 adds I'll go ahead and NT one target that's being focused by others, then just do AE spam to 4 AC stacks, then Refresh NT onto another target, then ABarr to clear.

Repeat AE spam til 4 AC, Refresh NT on another > ABarr clear.

It works well enough for me, but just doing straight AE spamming tends to produce a bit more damage output in my opinion, without clearing at all. During which you can toss on NT as it falls off.

I have tried the Abarr clearing because of Arcane Rebound.
Abarr clearing at 4 stacks of AC is the best dps option in M+.

I'd be very interested in some literature on when AE is better for dps than using AB. We already know it is better mana, the question remaining is when is better for damage? 2 or 3 mobs? If 2, that'd be amazing - but unlikely.
Pkm
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.1 - Updated: 11/02/2016

Unread postby Pkm Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:34 pm

I think it depends on exactly how many mobs are present. On pulls of 3-4 arcane barrage explosion is ok damage, but it scales really good with a lot of mobs quite like living bomb.
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Re: Arcane Mage - PvE - 7.1 - Updated: 11/02/2016

Unread postby danieltang34 Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:43 am

@integ

When there is 4 or more adds I tend to "get in there" and AE spam then AE barrage rotation s when my mana is low.

With 2 or 3 adds, example Cen. In EN, I can see juggling between adds with NT and AMs to build Q stacks and save mana for burning main boss.

WoP and AM proc chance relics would be ideal.

If anyone has tested this, have logs, or support this theory please advise.
@Kythos,

I haven't tested this exact theory, but I have done bouncing between targets frequently when in dungeons. No logs yet, but I can start recording for that and provide what I can.

Essentially, in groups of 3-4 adds I'll go ahead and NT one target that's being focused by others, then just do AE spam to 4 AC stacks, then Refresh NT onto another target, then ABarr to clear.

Repeat AE spam til 4 AC, Refresh NT on another > ABarr clear.

It works well enough for me, but just doing straight AE spamming tends to produce a bit more damage output in my opinion, without clearing at all. During which you can toss on NT as it falls off.

I have tried the Abarr clearing because of Arcane Rebound.
Abarr clearing at 4 stacks of AC is the best dps option in M+.

I'd be very interested in some literature on when AE is better for dps than using AB. We already know it is better mana, the question remaining is when is better for damage? 2 or 3 mobs? If 2, that'd be amazing - but unlikely.
AE spam always gave me more dps even on 4~5 target, I only abarr when I want to conserve mana

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