7.1.5 - Arcane Mage Guide - Updated: 02-16-2017

[jimmyo]

Did we settle on an answer as to using Arcane Missiles sub-3-stacks during Arcane Power with OP?

[x1xruex1x]

@Aeonsil,

Effina has a trinket comparison sheet, they tend to keep it up to date, I don't know if it's updated as of yet for 7.1.5 but when 7.1 hit it updated very very soon after. It's linked on the OP that I made on this thread at the top of the post.

_________________

@Jimmyo,

I don't think I've seen anything that declares AM sub 3AC stacks with AP while using OP. Personally, given if you should choose amplification in T15 talents, I'd think you'd want to ensure a launching of Am with 4 stacks of AC only. Since it'd be +15% damage per AC stack to AM. However, I'm still at work, so I haven't had the opportunity to really play with the live variant yet. When I was playing on PTR, that's how I did and it was fairly well off. I mean, during AP you should already be loaded with 4 AC's. I guess if you were to blow out the AC using ABarr and don't have CU available, then it'd be a downer, but if you're at 3 AM stacks, but not maxed on AC, then I'd say there's no harm in blowing 1 out just to ensure you're not capped and proc another, but it's a roll of the dice honestly.

If i didn't capture what your inquiry was though, please correct me

[jimmyo]

@Jimmyo,

I don't think I've seen anything that declares AM sub 3AC stacks with AP while using OP. Personally, given if you should choose amplification in T15 talents, I'd think you'd want to ensure a launching of Am with 4 stacks of AC only. Since it'd be +15% damage per AC stack to AM. However, I'm still at work, so I haven't had the opportunity to really play with the live variant yet. When I was playing on PTR, that's how I did and it was fairly well off. I mean, during AP you should already be loaded with 4 AC's. I guess if you were to blow out the AC using ABarr and don't have CU available, then it'd be a downer, but if you're at 3 AM stacks, but not maxed on AC, then I'd say there's no harm in blowing 1 out just to ensure you're not capped and proc another, but it's a roll of the dice honestly.

If i didn't capture what your inquiry was though, please correct me

by sub-3stacks, I meant sub-3stacks of AM. There were some arguments over whether we should be using Arcane Missiles in Overpowered Arcane Power. So with Amp/OP, do we spam Arcane Blast during AP (unless we have 3 stacks of AM) or do we expend our AM?

[x1xruex1x]

@Jimmyo,
...
If i didn't capture what your inquiry was though, please correct me

by sub-3stacks, I meant sub-3stacks of AM. There were some arguments over whether we should be using Arcane Missiles in Overpowered Arcane Power. So with Amp/OP, do we spam Arcane Blast during AP (unless we have 3 stacks of AM) or do we expend our AM?

Gotcha. Well it's something I'm experimenting with now after having read your post here.
So testing to see about using AB til 3-AM then clear then back to AB will be something I test out during raid friday most likely. However, I want to test it through the week when i can (just a busy week in general).

I've had good success using the AM>AB>AM>AB , where AB has PoM active, weaving. I get scenarios where it procs another AM to replace the used one, and sometimes not, either way it has proven well for me.

I'm thinking if you don't weave and you go straight for AB while AP(w/OP) is active, then it's 4 stacks of AC, burn AB the entire time, and wrap w/ a PoM if you can for a quick final 2 strikes before AP ends. Only casting AM when you hit 3 stacks.

Granted, if you chose Amplification, then +15%x4 during that is a very moderate upgrade in damage to your AM, and if you chance upon that 33.33% proc even once or possibly multiple times during AP(w/OP), then I think you've got one heck of a hit on your hands as opposed to what AB can do.

Either way, gotta test this a lot more, but it's just my opinion right now. Definitely see some merit to it.

[x1xruex1x]

Ok Folks, I've updated my guide as best I can (forum site allowing). The site has been hectic to get to pages on, and when I try uploading, it fails or times out, so I lose data and have to redo (gotten to the point I work out of notepad first!).

Sorry for any typo's or BBCode errors within the OP. Overall, Arcane is feeling nice right now, and has a multitude of variants.

SvenyD recommended Resonance over Charged Up for a +25% minimum on ABarr casts which occur frequently during the conservation phase, so I'll test that out.

JimmyO recommended doing an AB burn during Arcane Power and only casting AM at 3 stack, to lend the most of the -70% cast cost to AB

So definitely a shout out to them.

Can't thank Nelfy enough for his video guides and feedback during the PTR though!

Aside of that, Effina hasn't updated their Google Sheet for Mage Trinket Comparisons to 7.1.5 as of yet, but I assume that'll take some time.

Right now, Im feeling that things like Plaguehive and Shock-Baton won't be too great for slow and steady styles, but will be better when coupled with Temporal Flux, Nether Tempest, and high Haste.

For the Overpowered build I have in my guide (as of the moment), I'm feeling Arans Ruby and Arcano Crystal will be optimal (sadly I don't have Aran's /cry)

But yea, I'm seeing a lot of good healthy conversation, it's just difficult to reply on this forum board right now because it keeps timing out. Once it calms down, I'll rewrite my guide to be easier to follow along with.

I'm also feeling that this weekend I'll work on a video guide to go over it verbally, and lend my opinions and insight to the other builds, until I get a formal video on those and proper testings done.

[Kythos]

Super excited about the changes, wait for all the FoTM mages to come over to the arcane xD

Only did a couple Mythic+ and Heroic EN last night, felt much stronger and yet felt very sloppy at the same time.

the easiest way I can describe how i feel about Arcane now is it feels flexible. --- my warlock guidie would ask for a summon every other boss in EN, as he switched between talent focuses, we now can do the same.

more feedback after i get to play more.

P.S. Rue!! got me Rhonin's last night /flex

[Solidpat]

Super excited about the changes, wait for all the FoTM mages to come over to the arcane xD

Only did a couple Mythic+ and Heroic EN last night, felt much stronger and yet felt very sloppy at the same time.

the easiest way I can describe how i feel about Arcane now is it feels flexible. --- my warlock guidie would ask for a summon every other boss in EN, as he switched between talent focuses, we now can do the same.

more feedback after i get to play more.

P.S. Rue!! got me Rhonin's last night /flex

Kythos, I'm glad to see that you got your bracers! Maybe now you will be able to keep up with my parse?

[Ataraxey]

JimmyO recommended doing an AB burn during Arcane Power and only casting AM at 3 stack, to lend the most of the -70% cast cost to AB

I got my Arcane arti to 40 yesterday and did about 10-15 M+s with it and it really seems like casting AM at all during AP is a big dps loss.

Spamming AB by itself during AP seems to do a TON more overall damage.

I've been just spamming AB and when AP finishes then use all 3 of my missiles, and then any others that proc until I go OOM.

Also, opening with charged up and then using it during each AP Phase seems to be a great way to guarantee an instant burn start. I've also been saving MoA/PoM for each AP phase.

Full disclosure: I have Kilt, so my mana issues are a bit non existant and my mastery is much lower than normal (~17%).

[Kintoun]

Spamming AB by itself during AP seems to do a TON more overall damage.

Something is weird here.

AB is 192.4% sp and 2.25s cast. Base is 85.5% sp/sec
AM is 5*44.3% sp and 2s cast. Base is 110.75% sp/sec

AB has the following mods from traits. Blasting Rod 6%,
AM has the following mods from traits. Rule of Threes, Aegwynns Fury 6%
AM also has Amplification from talents. +15% more per AC.
AB has Touch of the Magi.

Even by eyeballing you can see AM does more damage than AB. So why does everyone keep saying bank AM procs during RoP/AP and focus on spamming AB?

[Samath]

Even by eyeballing you can see AM does more damage than AB. So why does everyone keep saying bank AM procs during RoP/AP and focus on spamming AB?

You only bank them during AP ( with OP ), where spamming AB ( if not at 3 AM charges ) is the most mana efficient thing to do.
During regular RoP, AM > AB for the reasons you said.

[Kintoun]

Something else I see mentioned a lot is comparing Resonance usage to AE spam. Which is higher DPS?

We'll assume AE spam has Charged Up talent so no ramp up time.
AE is 75% sp + 60% per AC. AE has traits for 10% more dmg (Arcane Purification).
(75% + 4x60%) x 1.10 = 346.5% sp
1.5s GCD cast time and scales linearly with amount of targets.
AE spam is NumTargets*231% sp/sec
231% sp/sec for 1 target
462% sp/sec for 2 targets
693% sp/sec for 3 targets
924% sp/sec for 4 targets

AEx4 + ABarr
Abarr is 130% sp + 60% per AC + Arcane Rebound trait.
Arcane Rebound is 200% sp in an area off primary target
(75% + 0x60%) x 1.10 = 82.5% sp
(75% + 1x60%) x 1.10 = 148.5% sp
(75% + 2x60%) x 1.10 = 214.5% sp
(75% + 3x60%) x 1.10 = 280.5% sp
ABarr
130% + 4x60% = 370% sp to primary target
Resonance = (1 + NumTargets*0.25) * 370%
+ 50% sp ABarr dmg to secondary targets

Arcane Rebound
200% to all
1 full Resonance cycle is 82.5%*NumTargets + 148.5%*NumTargets + 214.5%*NumTargets + 280.5%*NumTargets + (1 + NumTargets*0.25)*370% + NumTargets*(1 + NumTargets*0.25)*370%*0.5 + NumTargets*200%
Time spent casting is 5x1.5sGCD = 7.5
Resonance cycles are
(726 + 462.5 + 231.25 + 200) 216.4% sp/sec for 1 target
(726*2 + 555 + 277.5*2 + 200*2) 394.9% sp/sec for 2 targets
(726*3 + 647.5 + 323.75*3 + 200*3) 586.2% sp/sec for 3 targets
(726*4 + 740 + 370*4 + 200*4) 789.9% sp/sec for 4 targets

TLDR; AE spam is better than using Resonance when mana doesn't matter.

[Kintoun]

Even by eyeballing you can see AM does more damage than AB. So why does everyone keep saying bank AM procs during RoP/AP and focus on spamming AB?

You only bank them during AP ( with OP ), where spamming AB ( if not at 3 AM charges ) is the most mana efficient thing to do.
During regular RoP, AM > AB for the reasons you said.

Ah ok. So if mana matters, bank those AMs but don't cap at 3. If mana doesn't matter (short fights, end of a raid boss, good mana saving legos) spend those AM procs ASAP.

[Ataraxey]

Ah ok. So if mana matters, bank those AMs but don't cap at 3. If mana doesn't matter (short fights, end of a raid boss, good mana saving legos) spend those AM procs ASAP.

I'm specifically talking about spamming AB during Arcane Power w/ OP.

Even when I have 3 AM's, I tend to do more damage if I just keep spamming AB and ignore the AMs until Arcane Power ends. Then I use all 3 Ams and use the rest as they proc.

[Joban]

I'm specifically talking about spamming AB during Arcane Power w/ OP.

Even when I have 3 AM's, I tend to do more damage if I just keep spamming AB and ignore the AMs until Arcane Power ends. Then I use all 3 Ams and use the rest as they proc.

Maybe you got lucky with crits one time. Or unlucky with AM crits another time. The math is pretty basic and posted above. You're only casting AB during AP because of the mana efficiency, which pays off later in the fight. Missiles are by far your biggest DPET.

[Kypes]

Hey,

to begin with: Thank you very much for the guide. I have been waiting to play arcane since launch.

I tried the spec for the first time yesterday and had about an hour of preperation before the raid (EN mythic). Therefore I do make ALOT of mistakes and screw my burning phase (...MoA->RoP->AP->Evo->gg)

But I have one strange feeling about arcane:
If I look at sim results arcane should perform about 10% more DPS than fire. I can understand that this is only on paper and highly dependant on the boss fight. However if I look at logs in the 90th percentile I see fire clearly ahead of arcane (even on Ursoc or Nythendra).

Is fire just better than arcane after all? I have a few explanations though:

1. People are just way more used to play fire than arcane therefore they didnt switch / played arcane sub optimal
2. People at 90th percentile had the bracers and got lucky on the fight

I do have the fire bracers aswell and simcraft tells me fire and arcane do equally damage for me. But I just want to play arcane. Hoping I wont regret this during Nighthold. I have to say I dont have any arcane legendaries right now.

The other fire mage in my guild did more damage than me on almost every boss where we performed the same when we both were fire prior 7.1.5

tldr:
Does arcane deal more or at least equal damage than fire?

[Xinder]

Hey,

to begin with: Thank you very much for the guide. I have been waiting to play arcane since launch.

I tried the spec for the first time yesterday and had about an hour of preperation before the raid (EN mythic). Therefore I do make ALOT of mistakes and screw my burning phase (...MoA->RoP->AP->Evo->gg)

But I have one strange feeling about arcane:
If I look at sim results arcane should perform about 10% more DPS than fire. I can understand that this is only on paper and highly dependant on the boss fight. However if I look at logs in the 90th percentile I see fire clearly ahead of arcane (even on Ursoc or Nythendra).

Is fire just better than arcane after all? I have a few explanations though:

1. People are just way more used to play fire than arcane therefore they didnt switch / played arcane sub optimal
2. People at 90th percentile had the bracers and got lucky on the fight

I do have the fire bracers aswell and simcraft tells me fire and arcane do equally damage for me. But I just want to play arcane. Hoping I wont regret this during Nighthold. I have to say I dont have any arcane legendaries right now.

The other fire mage in my guild did more damage than me on almost every boss where we performed the same when we both were fire prior 7.1.5

tldr:
Does arcane deal more or at least equal damage than fire?

I feel like you've answered your own question. Every top Fire parse I've seen so far has the fire bracers. If you don't have the fire bracers you're gonna be very behind someone playing one of the other two specs as well as you would play fire. Secondly, as you point out you had 1hr of prep to play a spec after playing fire for all of Legion so far. Of course you'll be beat by your fire mage guildie with the bracers. As you pointed out for yourself with the bracers you sim close to how you sim for arcane. So even if you played Arcane well, which as you admit you didn't, you would have maybe beat him slightly or been neck and neck or at least would have lost to him less if he has better gear.

[x1xruex1x]

So I'm seeing a few alternate styles which are peaking curiosity.
Just want to recap them here, and I'll be testing them through the week. Although some of these are showing promise even before my testing ^_^ which I absolutely love seeing happen.

Overpowered w/ AB spam -- So it would seem that persons are testing this out and finding that while AP is active, it's actually better to focus in on strictly casting AB during this time frame. As for whether RoP's function, it would seem that you lead in with a PoM > RoP > AP > AB til end of AP. I'm assuming guessing this is to ensure you get the most out of your AB's during it, as they have -70% mana cost throughout if you're using Overpowered. I had originally thought weaving AM > AB > AM > AB (by use of PoM) then just casting AB's would be the better of the two, but I need to sit down and truly test this one.

Mirror Images v. Rune of Power v. Incanter's Flow -- I'm gathering that RoP may finally be dethroned or at least brought down to a competitive level with the other two choices. Mirror Images is just a cast it and forget it style cooldown, and given that Quickening never affected them, they were a poor pick. Now (if you're using the OP builds), it seems to be a real contender, especially on the fact it's straight +Dam, with no location management or buff management which leaves you available for other things and less worry. RoP still seems to give you some severe burn potential though. In short fights (I'd say less than 2.5 minutes), I think you can get more DPS output w/ RoP than Mirror Images possibly, and I really need to test this out to see which wins. Incanter's Flow still is just overall good for high moving fights but depending how you play and how well you track it, I think it could give you potentially more +Dam uptime than the others, but at the cost of management.

Resonance v. Charged Up -- It would really seem that this may be situational, and tied more to whether you have a legendary kilt or not. CU definitely pairs with the kilt without any contention from myself and others. However, it was brought to my attention that Resonance has a straight +25% damage increase base, as you're always hitting at least 1 target. I think I was comparing it against the Rebound talent where you MUST hit 2 for it to be worthwhile. Kept reading that as being the same case with Res til just the other night. I'm currently playing with this, and I feel a slight difference. Conserve phases are just as smooth w/ Res as they would be with CU. About the only difference is if I get a TotM proc, CU allows me to ensure I get a heavy hit tossed in and then I can carry out as normal. Whereas Res is just static. Pro and con to both, but I think they meet pretty closely based on playstyle. I could be wrong tho, so let me know what ya'll think.


Overall, I'll just say that I'm extremely excited for all of these choices. It's got the community rolling with ideas, and theorycrafting and log sharing so far. We've got a lot of fresh faces in here, as well as a lot of previous thought provokers.

Let's keep the conversations going everyone ^_^

Personally, I'm hoping to make a guide update each week at the minimum to have any new variants found and concurred upon.

I want to ask each of you the following, and if you can, reply with them in 1 post.

• What is your favorite talent build in 7.1.5 so far?
• Can you post screenshots of your talents & character sheet?
• What is your rotation like?
• Does it require a specific legendary?
• What's your DPS like in a roughly 5-minute fight?

I really want to see what each person has to say about this, and please, don't be shy. If you choose a weird talent that seems out of place, just tell us why ^_^ Heck, I choose ice ward because I just personally like having 2 frost novae available.

After we get a few responses, if it's all the same to you all, I want to go ahead and incorporate them into the original post I made. I'll be sure to note your Altered-Time name, or if you prefer, your character name, or whatever you want to be called. I know it's not like we all have a unique build that no one has ever thought of, but for the purposes of this thread, lets do a shout out to those who share ^_^

Aside of all that, I'll be running ToV Normal on Friday, and I'll be logging myself during it to compare against my previous endeavors in there. Hopefully it'll show promise, and either way I'll share the logs here once I'm done uploading them ^_^

Be good everyone, and keep on maging!

*oh, did they change our food again to mana buns? they didnt' work with my premade macro for auto-eating on a push, since they were different between solo and group content, but now it seems like it's just mana bun.

[Pkm]

Just wondering if I'm reading this right, you don't always abx4 in conserve phase? Only to stay above 70% mana? If it means staying above that then abx2 barrage is fine to do?

[jimmyo]

So I originally posed AB spam during Overpowered Arcane Power as a question, not a suggestion. However, after a number of tests and actual boss pulls, I do believe that the mana cost reduction is more significant than the damage of Arcane Missiles ASSUMING that the fight will last beyond your current mana pool (if it's late enough in the fight that mana isn't a concern, arcane misssile as much as possible).

However, a full on AB spam to 3 stacks risks DPS reducing munching. For example, if you Arcane Barrage to 3, but have already queued an arcane barrage, you will lose an Arcane Missile. Thus, I believe the correct answer is that you should use AM with 2 stacks, but not with 1 during Overpowered. The mana reduction on Arcane Blast during Overpowered is more valuable than the DPET, but you should under no circumstance risk munching AM procs. When you reach 2 stacks of AM, a weaved AB -> AM -> AB will protect you from munching an arcane missiles.

The APL on Simcraft also follows this logic. It will use AM during burn phase at 2 stacks no matter what; however it will only use a 1-stack of AM if an Overpowered Arcane Power (it does use 1-stack AM during AP with both Temporal Flux and Arcane Orb. I will play with the APL to see what happens if I change that).


My burn phase thus, has turned into the following:

Initial burn phase
MoA -> RoP -> AP
Arcane Blast Spam unless 2-stacks of AM (if 2-stacks, AB -> AM -> AB until down to 1-stack).
PoM AB during last 3 seconds of RoP

Secondary burn phase
After AP expires, dump all arcane Missiles
AB to 2-stacks of Arcane Missiles, drop 2nd RoP.
AB -> Arcane Missile dump

Concluding Burn
AB spam to sub 10% for evocation.
Evocate
AB once if 1 AM remaing, twice if 2 or 3 remain
AM dump
Barrage and start Conserve


________________________________

Regarding Mirror v. RoP v. IF

I personally hate RoP, but it is unquestionably better than the other two options.

Mirrors works well with Fire because it and Combustion have the same CD (assuming no kindling). It works well with Frost because they can keep up Icy Veins 100% of the time, and even if it drops off, it'll often line up. Mirrors however does not have the same CD as AP, which means that other than the first AP and 5th AP, you won't get the +damage. On a 2-minute pull, it does roughly equal damage to RoP. The longer the pull goes, the more RoP takes the lead.

IF is often touted as being movement friendly. I disagree. Most fights allow you to have 10-seconds of uninterrupted damage time, assuming you are familiar with the mechanics of the fight. RoP allows you to utilize those 10 seconds better. IF is weaker than RoP in a perfect environment, and as long as you know the fight and use RoP in safe windows you are better off maximizing damage in those windows. The better argument for IF is that it's nice while *leraning* a fight since you can ignore it.

Oh, and at 877 IF was within 2% of RoP on patchwerk for me. After some nice drops from mythic Odyn/Guarm tonight, it's 6% behind RoP at 884. RoP is scaling better.

[tadeqt]

Great posts all around here, personally I have a question after reading all your contributions.

How are we using RoP after the first evocation? I'd guess we are doing mini burns for this, syncing it with MoA and saving up 2 or more missiles procs?