Nëlfy's 7.1.5 Arcane Guide - Updated 2/14/17

[a0kalittlema0n]

I'm also curious since you posted about the mark of the claw, I know the sims show them not being a huge difference, but I wonder how having that extra haste and crate every now and then would be, a good overall 3%~ buff at random times could bode well especially if we were in our burst.

I'm also excited for the trinket list. I'm not so sure about Gul'dan's trinket being the top, but I guess we'll see when the list comes out.

[x1xruex1x]

I'm also curious since you posted about the mark of the claw, I know the sims show them not being a huge difference, but I wonder how having that extra haste and crate every now and then would be, a good overall 3%~ buff at random times could bode well especially if we were in our burst.

I'm also excited for the trinket list. I'm not so sure about Gul'dan's trinket being the top, but I guess we'll see when the list comes out.

@Nelfy,

So I've been using the Mark of the Claw since Saturday. During my EN (nrm) run on Sunday, and throughout this week I've noticed that my damage is similar to that of Satyr. It does not seem like it's better or worse than it's competition, however, I think it feels better. Kinda gives you a small burst of happiness when you see the proc during your burn phase, or when Touch of the Magi is on the target or during Mark of Aluneth.

Having that extra haste makes it just flow a bit better. The crit is nice as I feel that even when using PoM with claw up, im not wasting it, since it's the +Crit that I'm fishing for then.

I was toying around with a Temporal Flux build (not exactly a great build as of right now imo, just feels a bit lacking), but while playing with this build I noticed that the claw was more desirable feeling than the Satyr (when I checked against my ptr TF testing). Given that TF builds are all about hastily belting out those AB's.

So yea, I'd love to see if someone has any mathematical data to support the Satyr vs Claw enchants, but right now I'm feeling like it's up to the end-user. If you prefer straight +Dam, go Satyr. If you feel you can combo it well and possibly pull more damage, then go Claw. If you're not utilizing the buff during key times, then I'd say Satyr would trump it.

[yarafx1]

I'd also like to see the comparison again Train Soldier as well, just what difference the flat 600 mastery would be providing vs a damage proc or a haste/crit proc.

[x1xruex1x]

I'd also like to see the comparison again Train Soldier as well, just what difference the flat 600 mastery would be providing vs a damage proc or a haste/crit proc.

@Yarafx1,

I had considered that one for a little bit of time. It sounds like a good choice, but I kept seeing all over "Mastery takes more rating to = 1% for damage than the rest of the stats so it's not as valuable as Crit/Haste/Vers" *not an exact quote, but a quick synopsis of what I've seen.

I'm currently trying to find out break points for haste (Nelfy just supplied the link so I'll check it later tonight when I get home), and a piece of data that says how much Mastery Rating = Mana Pool, Mana Regen, and Damage.

If I recall, 400 Mastery = 1% as per WoWhead via Blizzard's 7.1.5 patch notes or something like that.
However, there's no indication for Mages (Arcane) what that 400 affects.

Is it: 400 = +1% Mana Pool?
Is it: 400 = +1% Mana Regen?
Is it: 400 = +1% Damage?

This is something that I need to find out, once I do, I can better judge how good the Trained Soldier enchant is.

If it's just 400 = +1% damage, that's just +1.5%, not a huge amount.
If it's like 900 = +1% damage, then hell no (I know this is NOT the case, but just bounding off of Versa as an example).

Given the below, I can say that the Claw gives 2.66% haste and 2.5% Crit.
Critical Strike: 400 rating is equal to 1% for the stat.
Haste: 375 rating is equal to 1% for the stat.

My stats are roughly 35% Crit, 20% Haste, 31% Mastery, 2% Vers.

If I get a Claw proc, plus TW/Hero during my burn phase, that puts me up to near 55% haste, and closer to 38% crit.
These aren't EXACT figures as I'm not at my game pc right now (at work), but it gives an idea where I'm looking at this.

I want to get the most bang for my buck. Getting both Haste and Crit to me seems to outdo the Mastery since the mana regen and mana pool don't really do much for me right now. I have 2 equipment sets, one that has me at the above numbers, and one that has me at 25%~ Crit, 13%~ Haste, 51% Mastery, and 2% Vers. Honestly, I'm just not feeling it. It's slow, doesn't seem to put out as much damage, and I struggle to get through my mana during burn phases, so I'm always missing the AP Evo lineup for cooldowns.

Maybe I'm just screwin that Mastery build up or so, but I just don't like the feel.

I could say this tho. If you're super low on mastery and super high on Crit/Haste, then the neck piece might be more appetizing, as I've always felt crit (while nice) doesn't need to be higher than 40% unless you're Fire or Frost,... or playing Diablo 3... wait... not even that. 40-45% in Diablo 3 is just right.

It's nice to be up higher as it means more often, but sometimes you still need to have that constant damage. So yea, if you're really high on Crit/Haste, maybe take the enchant.


Either way, my core inquiry stands, if I can get ahold of the mastery rating per item of mastery attribute, that'd help answer all this.


Sorry for the ramble, just hope it helps.

[Timelorde]

I'd also like to see the comparison again Train Soldier as well, just what difference the flat 600 mastery would be providing vs a damage proc or a haste/crit proc.

@Yarafx1,

I had considered that one for a little bit of time. It sounds like a good choice, but I kept seeing all over "Mastery takes more rating to = 1% for damage than the rest of the stats so it's not as valuable as Crit/Haste/Vers" *not an exact quote, but a quick synopsis of what I've seen.

I'm currently trying to find out break points for haste (Nelfy just supplied the link so I'll check it later tonight when I get home), and a piece of data that says how much Mastery Rating = Mana Pool, Mana Regen, and Damage.

If I recall, 400 Mastery = 1% as per WoWhead via Blizzard's 7.1.5 patch notes or something like that.
However, there's no indication for Mages (Arcane) what that 400 affects.

Is it: 400 = +1% Mana Pool?
Is it: 400 = +1% Mana Regen?
Is it: 400 = +1% Damage?

This is something that I need to find out, once I do, I can better judge how good the Trained Soldier enchant is.

If it's just 400 = +1% damage, that's just +1.5%, not a huge amount.
If it's like 900 = +1% damage, then hell no (I know this is NOT the case, but just bounding off of Versa as an example).

Given the below, I can say that the Claw gives 2.66% haste and 2.5% Crit.
Critical Strike: 400 rating is equal to 1% for the stat.
Haste: 375 rating is equal to 1% for the stat.

My stats are roughly 35% Crit, 20% Haste, 31% Mastery, 2% Vers.

If I get a Claw proc, plus TW/Hero during my burn phase, that puts me up to near 55% haste, and closer to 38% crit.
These aren't EXACT figures as I'm not at my game pc right now (at work), but it gives an idea where I'm looking at this.

I want to get the most bang for my buck. Getting both Haste and Crit to me seems to outdo the Mastery since the mana regen and mana pool don't really do much for me right now. I have 2 equipment sets, one that has me at the above numbers, and one that has me at 25%~ Crit, 13%~ Haste, 51% Mastery, and 2% Vers. Honestly, I'm just not feeling it. It's slow, doesn't seem to put out as much damage, and I struggle to get through my mana during burn phases, so I'm always missing the AP Evo lineup for cooldowns.

Maybe I'm just screwin that Mastery build up or so, but I just don't like the feel.

I could say this tho. If you're super low on mastery and super high on Crit/Haste, then the neck piece might be more appetizing, as I've always felt crit (while nice) doesn't need to be higher than 40% unless you're Fire or Frost,... or playing Diablo 3... wait... not even that. 40-45% in Diablo 3 is just right.

It's nice to be up higher as it means more often, but sometimes you still need to have that constant damage. So yea, if you're really high on Crit/Haste, maybe take the enchant.


Either way, my core inquiry stands, if I can get ahold of the mastery rating per item of mastery attribute, that'd help answer all this.


Sorry for the ramble, just hope it helps.

This is what I read from another post:
The amount of mastery it requires to gain 1% damage is higher than the amount of versatility it requires.

4-charge AB with 30% mastery is 192%*(1+.75*4) = 768%
4-charge AB with 31% mastery is 192%*(1+.755*4)=771.84%
4-charge AB with 32% mastery is 192%*(1+.76*4) = 775.68%

However:

4-charge AB with 30% mastery, 1% vers is 192%(1+.75*4)*1.01=775.68%

2% mastery = 666 mastery
1% vers = 475 versatility.

Additionally, versatility affects all damage, mastery only affects charge-based damage. This includes MoA dot damage (which is more than 50% of MoA's value), 0-charge AB/AE, Arcane Orb, hidden satyr, and deadly grace.

Which is why vers is sought after once you hit around 30% mastery. At least what my stat weights are saying

[jimmyo]

This is what I read from another post:
The amount of mastery it requires to gain 1% damage is higher than the amount of versatility it requires.

4-charge AB with 30% mastery is 192%*(1+.75*4) = 768%
4-charge AB with 31% mastery is 192%*(1+.755*4)=771.84%
4-charge AB with 32% mastery is 192%*(1+.76*4) = 775.68%

However:

4-charge AB with 30% mastery, 1% vers is 192%(1+.75*4)*1.01=775.68%

2% mastery = 666 mastery
1% vers = 475 versatility.

Additionally, versatility affects all damage, mastery only affects charge-based damage. This includes MoA dot damage (which is more than 50% of MoA's value), 0-charge AB/AE, Arcane Orb, hidden satyr, and deadly grace.

Which is why vers is sought after once you hit around 30% mastery. At least what my stat weights are saying

Since that C&P is my algebra, just thought I'd clarify where the numbers came from.

.75*4 is the bonus damage given per arcane charge at 30% mastery (60% base + 30%/2). I used 30% simply because it was a nice round figure that also tends to be similar to the amount many people are running. It had nothing to do with a break point at which vers outscales mastery. 30% mastery just seems to be the point most people find that they can maintain their rotation without going oom, hence people not going far beyond that.

That post also only reflects on the value of Versatility per cast, not per mana bar. Mastery obviously improves your ability to remain at 4-charges between Evocations. However, there is no really great way to calculate how much mastery is the "right" amount. It really depends on how your good mana throttling is. With the high amount of movement in Nighthold, I believe that Mastery is even more devalued than it was when 7.1.5 first dropped. The 2P furthers the devaluation even more, as does the four Arcane-specific legendaries (specifically Helm/Legs/Bracers).

[x1xruex1x]

awesome details.

but um, what's the amount of Mastery Rating needed to get a +1% to the damage portion of the stat?
I just want to know so I can detail it in my guide and have it for reference on gear.

[x1xruex1x]

@Nelfy,

Oh, so just a quick thing about the Mark of the Claw. So it's about a 2.5/2.66% increase for Crit/Haste respectively.
Definitely a nice little boost, but I'm using it more for the crit than anything.

However, I've started coupling it with Sephuz's Secret (or my secondary TW when I use Shard of the Exodar).
Using it w/ Sephuz's I manage to get these stats: 39% Crit / 53% Haste / 31% Mastery / 2% Versatility
Prior to that, I sit around 35/20/31/2 for my stats.

In testing, and toying around with it, I feel like if you can maintain a consistent Sephuz's proc every 30 seconds or close within, you can start utilizing Nether Tempest. It felt like it was doing proper damage again, and in a testing, I was holding fast between 425-470k dps ranging.

So yea, I think there's something to be had by Mark of the Claw. But you gotta work it into your spells properly. Not utilizing it when it's up, or just casting regularly without regard to it, just kinda wastes it. While Satyr is constant and not-thinking so you don't need to worry about it.

Hopefully this helps.

I was toying with it a lot during Skorpyron and was having fun w/ it there. Just didn't have a WeakAura to tell me the internal timer on it so I could bank my frost nova properly.

[a0kalittlema0n]

It turns out that Mark of the Claw is BiS for other classes, so I assume it's competitive for us. I personally like running it since I like to min/max my choices mid fight.

[Gruks]

Hi - one question:
Do You use PoM on every CD, or do You wait for AP?

[x1xruex1x]

Hi - one question:
Do You use PoM on every CD, or do You wait for AP?

@Gruks,

I'll try to be useful

Typically if PoM is banked until AP, it allows for more AB's into that AP period. So that's the goal being aimed for in most scenarios. Granted there are instances where you need immediate burst and just gotta pour in what you can (maybe Skorp's expose if you screwed up your AP cd). So yea,.. typically bank it for AP and AP alone, only utilizing outside on an as-needed basis.

back to you Nelfy for logic, reason, and correction on any inaccuracies

[a0kalittlema0n]

Nah you nailed it on the head. I always save it for AP especially when running Overpowered. The only instances where I would desync it is if we need an add to die within seconds/damage checks if we're hitting certain walls in DPS.