[TC] Chasing BIS: 2T16H+3HWF or 4T16H?

[Mejn]

Is this worth trying if u run 4 set and u go 14242 haste ? Or just with 2 set ?

My bad didn't see it. Thx

[BioBall]

Is this worth trying if u run 4 set and u go 14242 haste ? Or just with 2 set ?

I suspect this answers the question:

Mastery is clearly stronger than haste with the 4T16H profile, and gunning for 14242 haste is a clear loss. This is significant, as we will find out later.

[Trustbucket]

By the way, why wouldn't you use the jugg haste mastery legs for the 2pc build? If you're going to be swapping mastery into haste anyway it wouldn't matter to lose the mastery on hands/ shoulders for increased stats.

...

...

... . I think you might be on to something!

The traditional 2T16H has always been about maximizing mastery, which explains the decision of switching tier pieces with haste for off-set pieces with mastery. This also created the annoying issue of having too much hit from the hit/mastery shoulders, and potentially needing to use undesirable int gems.

There are no haste/mastery shoulders or haste/mastery gloves. What would be the third piece?

Yeah I hadn't taken into account the set you used for your profiles previously because I have never been able to do the 2pc build until now (I swap between fire and arcane) and it just made sense because using jugg legs you are trading crit for haste (with increased stats) where the other pieces in question trade haste for mastery or crit/haste for hit/mastery. I would think, however, that using the protectors shoulders would be an increase over fusespark gloves because the gloves gives extra crit and if you can get to 15% hit while not using int gems there would be more total haste and mastery combined at the cost of crit.

Hard to explain but I would think shoulders would be better than gloves, unless you have bad off-pieces with hit or if you still have too much hit to reforge out of with using shoulders over gloves.

[Trustbucket]

Yeah so I checked it quick in AMR, you can get to 15.08% haste by using 3 int/mastery gems. I'll sim the two different options later maybe when my head doesn't hurt so much. No guarantees though since I use hit mastery bracers so I will be going with the fusespark gloves by default.

[Spirillum]

For my 2P set I've been trying to get the Norushen shoulders over the Fallen Protectors ones. They have less mastery but better sockets and a crit secondary.

I have HWF Siegecrafter gloves and HWF Garrosh helm (my 4P offpiece).

[Dutchmagoz]

Quick point, both of your gearsets link to the same build. Both are 4pc.

[Vatti]

Logs from last raid: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/3RwbFMqcY9Z2KNgz" target="_blank

Similar numbers being pulled when using the legs as an offset but of course a sample size of one raid in the RPPM era isn't substantial.

[Komma]

Logs from last raid: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/3RwbFMqcY9Z2KNgz" target="_blank

Similar numbers being pulled when using the legs as an offset but of course a sample size of one raid in the RPPM era isn't substantial.

Ouch. Another failed attempt at surviving through Dark Shamans. I think you're going a bit too ham with those walls and foul slimes landing on you...oh well!

[Vatti]

Logs from last raid: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/3RwbFMqcY9Z2KNgz" target="_blank

Similar numbers being pulled when using the legs as an offset but of course a sample size of one raid in the RPPM era isn't substantial.

Ouch. Another failed attempt at surviving through Dark Shamans. I think you're going a bit too ham with those walls and foul slimes landing on you...oh well!

I blame the tank. Kappa.

[Swordz]

@Vatti:

Was this past clear the first time you were testing Frost Armour or had you used that in the past with 4T16H as well?

[Vatti]

@Vatti:

Was this past clear the first time you were testing Frost Armour or had you used that in the past with 4T16H as well?

Did a 4PT16 FA two weeks ago, Head/Gloves/Shoulders offset FA one week ago and Head/Legs/Gloves offset FA this week.

[Hotpots]

I'm still a bit sceptical on some fights with 4p & 2P on some fights. I'd feel 4p is best on encounters like Iron Jugg, Malkorok and possibly Thok? But I feel 4p could possibly be decent due to the 4p having some sort of RNG factor similar to trinkets (15% chance to not consume missles). So if RNG is in your favour then big deeps can be made.

However on a debateable fight like Shamans and with quick kill times, its all about the burst right? And with 4 NTs flying about the place on the opener with 2P, damage burst is going to be insanely high. The only situation I feel the 2P would be inferior is if you get insanely lucky procs on your 4P and manage to sustain yourself @ 4 arcane charges for your full duration of trinkets or even longer (30 - 40secs, which has happened to me once or twice when I used 4P).

So all in all I assume you can produce some record breaking DPS if you get high uptime on your 4set and the 2P is a safer option as you are losing 2000 static mastery with 4P

[Komma]

I'm still a bit sceptical on some fights with 4p & 2P on some fights. I'd feel 4p is best on encounters like Iron Jugg, Malkorok and possibly Thok? But I feel 4p could possibly be decent due to the 4p having some sort of RNG factor similar to trinkets (15% chance to not consume missles). So if RNG is in your favour then big deeps can be made.

However on a debateable fight like Shamans and with quick kill times, its all about the burst right? And with 4 NTs flying about the place on the opener with 2P, damage burst is going to be insanely high. The only situation I feel the 2P would be inferior is if you get insanely lucky procs on your 4P and manage to sustain yourself @ 4 arcane charges for your full duration of trinkets or even longer (30 - 40secs, which has happened to me once or twice when I used 4P).

So all in all I assume you can produce some record breaking DPS if you get high uptime on your 4set and the 2P is a safer option as you are losing 2000 static mastery with 4P

I'm actually a little bit confused what you are trying to say. I think you're trying to talk about the damage ranges. It's a little bit harder to evaluate say, "which setup has better numbers if confined to the top 10% of RNG", but I guess this is relevant for folks who are trying to for top 10 ranks. I don't think this changes the conclusion too much - RNG can be great for either setup. With 4T16 you can get lucky chain 15% procs, but with 2T16 you can have just as much luck by getting a lot of AM procs.

Ultimately the two sets are just really close, and there isn't too much of a point comparing specifics. The top ranks are made by playing well, favorable strats and lucky RNG, and these tiny gear changes make much less of an impact.

[Hotpots]

I'm still a bit sceptical on some fights with 4p & 2P on some fights. I'd feel 4p is best on encounters like Iron Jugg, Malkorok and possibly Thok? But I feel 4p could possibly be decent due to the 4p having some sort of RNG factor similar to trinkets (15% chance to not consume missles). So if RNG is in your favour then big deeps can be made.

However on a debateable fight like Shamans and with quick kill times, its all about the burst right? And with 4 NTs flying about the place on the opener with 2P, damage burst is going to be insanely high. The only situation I feel the 2P would be inferior is if you get insanely lucky procs on your 4P and manage to sustain yourself @ 4 arcane charges for your full duration of trinkets or even longer (30 - 40secs, which has happened to me once or twice when I used 4P).

So all in all I assume you can produce some record breaking DPS if you get high uptime on your 4set and the 2P is a safer option as you are losing 2000 static mastery with 4P

I'm actually a little bit confused what you are trying to say. I think you're trying to talk about the damage ranges. It's a little bit harder to evaluate say, "which setup has better numbers if confined to the top 10% of RNG", but I guess this is relevant for folks who are trying to for top 10 ranks. I don't think this changes the conclusion too much - RNG can be great for either setup. With 4T16 you can get lucky chain 15% procs, but with 2T16 you can have just as much luck by getting a lot of AM procs.

Ultimately the two sets are just really close, and there isn't too much of a point comparing specifics. The top ranks are made by playing well, favorable strats and lucky RNG, and these tiny gear changes make much less of an impact.

Well with 4P you are able to get lucky with AM procs and 4 set procs (2 RNG factors), where as with the 2set there is only 1 RNG factor. Which is why I said the 2P is a safer option although the 4P has a better chance of producing insane deeps. Obviously I'm discussing this amongst the goal of high ranks, not progress DPS. Ofcourse High DPS is due to how the player performs but obviously another BIG factor is insanely good RNG such as 45% uptime on toxic and a good uptime on missles. So therefore I feel 2P and 4P is a big factor in Arcane Mage DPS. That is what I was meant, sorry I confused you

[Trustbucket]

for the 14242 build, would it be better to be slightly under the haste cap or over by over 100? I would assume under since it seems after the haste cap the value will be much less but I'm just making sure there is no hidden benefit to being over 14242. Haven't seen any BPs under any conditions at around the 14242 but who knows?

[Komma]

Questions of 100-200 haste seem pretty hard to answer without exact profiles and sims. You'd probably get the best answer by running a reforge plot yourself.

Theory-wise though, 14242 is mainly because of the GCD for NT. Since the only other GCD spell is ABar which doesn't get used that often, I wouldn't expect things to change too wildly. The next significant rating number would be 15697, where AB/AM GCD cap with the meta gem. That's well beyond where we should be going though.

[Vatti]

Late update.

I stayed alive on dark shamans and improved my Jugg and Malk logs. Feel free to take a look:

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NbBnL2d8rxfvQYm1#" target="_blank

Still love the build. Running Head/Legs/Gloves atm.

[Swordz]

Without access to HWF pieces for the 2set, would it be wise to run Frost Armour + higher haste build simply with the 4 set?

[Trustbucket]

Late update.

I stayed alive on dark shamans and improved my Jugg and Malk logs. Feel free to take a look:

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NbBnL2d8rxfvQYm1#" target="_blank

Still love the build. Running Head/Legs/Gloves atm.

So jealous of your kill times.

[Vatti]

Late update.

I stayed alive on dark shamans and improved my Jugg and Malk logs. Feel free to take a look:

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NbBnL2d8rxfvQYm1#" target="_blank

Still love the build. Running Head/Legs/Gloves atm.

So jealous of your kill times.

we bring all mains every first week of the month to freshen things up.
will prolly be playing my monk unless on that raid now tho