Mystic Kilt 7.1.5: Raids and Keystones

[Conatus78]

This guide is my hypothesis on what the best Mystic Kilt rotation is, and I'll be changing it constantly as I work out the kinks. I don't believe this guide is anywhere close to the quality of Nelfy's, Rue's, Frosted's, or others. But there is a dearth of Mystic Kilt guides right now, so I'm offering this as a starting point for other kilt wearers until something better comes along. Comments/criticisms welcome. I believe this is my first attempt at a WoW guide. My apologies if it is unclear.

Special thanks to Nelfy for getting me started on my own arcane investigation and writing an amazing analysis for me on my use of the kilt in 7.1

My other legendary is Bolvar's Final Stand. Let's not talk about Bolvar's Final Stand.

I'm currently at iLevel 885, 5/7 M EN, with a 22 crit, 16 hast, 39 mastery build.

I'm not recommending these stats. My guess is that I could lose some mastery and gain some haste and be more efficient, though mastery should still be the top stat. Currently, my third MoA is coming off cooldown just before my second evocate, because it took so long to get to 0 mana and use the first evocate during the opening phase.

Talents:
15: Amplification, although I haven't tested this.
30: Slipstream- I am loving this talent. So much more mobility than Ice Floes.
45: RoP- still untested
60: Charged Up- Not thoroughly tested for DPS, but mechanically it works very well with Kilt.
75: Chronoshift, for mechanical reasons
90: Erosion, because I'm not a dotting warlock
100: Overpowered, because it is overpowered

Charged Up:
In 7.1.5, it's been noted by lots of other arcane mages that charged up is competitive with supernova. Taking CU can change DPS patterns significantly. With Supernova in 7.1, my DPS would peak around 10 seconds, after building up 4 arcane charges, NT, SN, MoA, RoP, and AP. With CU, you'll be peaking in just a few seconds, and the initial burst is amazing. However, sustained single target will be much lower.

The most important mechanic about CU and Kilt is that CU is a mana recovery tool. Almost always, when CU is 1 second away from coming off cooldown, cast barrage, then charged up. This is a 12% mana recovery, so it should only be done when around 80% or lower mana. One goal is to make sure that you're around 80% or lower when CU comes off cooldown.

Arcane Missiles:
Before AP comes off cooldown, you want to expend as many AM procs as possible, saving only what you need if the fight is move intensive. You don't want to cast AM during AP thanks to the amazing mana savings than 7.1.5 overpowered brings.

The stage cycle goes like this:
1. Opening-evocate
2. MoA/PoM/RoP mini-burn (1 minute) Should be around 70% mana when this stage begins.
3. Kilt Regeneration (1-2 cycles of 4xAB, ABarr).
4. AP mini-burn (Mana may hit bottom before Evocate is up, depending on gear. Apply a Kilt Regen cycle if this applies.) (1:30 minute mark). Should be around 30%-50% mana when this stage begins, with 0-1 arcane missile procs.
5. Evocate
6. MoA/PoM/RoP mini-burn (2 minute mark)
7. Kilt Regeneration
8. MoA/PoM/RoP/AP major burn (3 minute mark)
9. Return to 3

Stages:

Opening/Major Burn Phase

1 second prior to pull, pre-pot
AFTER pull, use charged up. You'll lose any charges you have when the boss is pulled, so this is critical.
Presence of Mind
Mark of Aluneth
Rune of Power
Arcane Power- [During AP, cast as many Arcane Blasts as possible, always. Only cast Arcane Missile if at three stacks]
2xPoM Arcane Blasts
Then spam Arcane Blasts, until there are less than 2 seconds on RoP. Then, use a charge of arcane missiles if you have it.
Second Rune of Power, right on the heals of the first.
Continue arcane blast burn until AP runs out-- you'll only have 1 or 2 casts during the second RoP, depending on haste.
-When AP runs out, there will be about 10 seconds left on the second RoP. If the fight is move intensive, make sure to keep an AM proc or two saved. Otherwise, go ahead and burn them.

Evocate:

At 90% mana after evocate, cast Arcane Blast until 80%. Cast Barrage, then charged up. Although you want to use charged up as much as possible, there is not sense in using it if it comes off cooldown right before evocate. Save it until after.


MoA/PoM/RoP mini-burn.

Summary:
MoA/PoM/RoP mini-burn.
Shift to recover using 4 stacks and barrage. Then shift to second AP Burn.

You've just gotten to 90% mane after an evocate with 4 charges of Arcane Blast. You haven't cast barrage yet. CU will probably just become available. MoA, PoM, and RoP are coming up in a moment. Your goal now is to use these cooldowns as efficiently as possible in a mini-burn phase, but make sure you have about 40% mana before AP comes off cooldown.



Kilt Regeration

The MoA burn phase is over, the second AP is coming up in about 15 seconds. If you keep burning, there won't be enough mana for AP. So do one or two rotations of 4xAB, ABarr to build mana up again. When there are 8 seconds left before the next major cooldown, cast ABarr at 4 stacks, then build up to 4 again.

AP burn:

RoP/AP. Use only one charge of RoP-- you'll want to have two up for the major burn phase.
One great thing about Overpowered is that even at 20% mana, you can cast RoP/MoA, spam AB, and still have enough mana to get through an AP mini-burn. After this, however, there may be some time before evocate is up again. Fortunately, with Kilt, you can use an efficient Kilt Regeneration phase to sustain DPS until evocate comes off cooldown again.


Final Note: For maximum DPS, it is important to keep everything tight, using the major cooldowns (RoP, MoA, PoM, AP, and evocate) right when they come up and in the right order. These work together like clockwork. Charged Up should also be used as much as possible, but at least it won't mess with the rotation if it is used a little bit late.

[Grazer]

Thanks for the Guide, I think you did well for your first guide.

Your descriptions match how Arcane plays out for me (have Kilt+boots). There is just one thing I would like to point out. If I recall correctly, it hasn't actually been proven that it's a dps gain to dump missiles before OP-AP. The thing is: Yes, you don't save much mana compared to AB during AP. But especially with Amplification, AM is doing much more damage than AB, so the +70% from OP and the 40% from RoP (they would be cast outside of both otherwise) is a higher damage increase for the harder hitting AM.

I hope I could make my point clear. In my opinion, it's not safe to state "dump AM before AP".

[Conatus78]

Thanks for the feedback, Grazer. Yes, your point is completely clear, and interesting. I plan to do a lot of empirical testing this weekend and I'll definitely work that into the mix too.

[Exton]

Great guide @Conatus...

I also have Kilt/Chest...the reason I know this is a great guide is because it is basically a confirmation of the talents/stat weights/rotation (slight tweaking) I've been using with very effective results.

My biggest problem now is a luxury problem. CU or Resonance in Mythic+? Both are excellent Kilt talents. I'm thinking that the those two talents will vary in effectiveness from instance to instance.

Please continue to post observations.

[Conatus78]

Thanks, Exton!

I wonder about the CU vs Resonance choice too. I agree it will be based on keystone level and affixes. My suspicion was that Charged Up would be better on lower-level keystones (getting about one additional barrage in per trash pack), but after trying it this morning in a few Maws 2 & 5, I still think resonance is the better choice. I should say I've been doing a ton of keystones with the kilt, but only recently started experimenting with charged up. Maybe I'll change my mind.

Why resonance?
With a 4-6xAE + Resonated Barrage rotation, we can do amazing dps on large groups of mobs, which is what we want to focus on building toward in keystones. Plus, with the kilt, we are preserving a lot of mana on the mobs. This is good, because you don't want to need to drink or evocate before starting boss fights.

Fighting groups of 2 is our weakest situation, since our resonated barrage increases in power exponentially the more mobs we're fighting, up to 5. For groups of 2, I've found single targeting one mob generally works best, using barrage to cleave. I've never shined on 2 though. Things even out a bit more at 3, and at 4 we are strong again.

Depending on the speed of progression, we can use about one RoP per mob fight too, which is so great combined with a resonated barrage.

Other Keystone Talents: Rune of Power and Overpowered

The most dangerous fights in keystones aren't bosses. The most dangerous fights in keystones are a few trash packs. It is best to be as powerful as possible during those fights. This is especially true for higher keystones, where challenging packs (and sometimes bosses) act as hurdles for the group that can sometimes prevent progression.

Both Incanter's and AO are talents that provide more consistently available for the entire run. RoP and OP provide a spike of power with longer cooldowns to their competitors.

Arcane Orb provides a similar benefit to Charged Up. After a few runs with AO, I still believe OP is far more preferable. It provides amazing benefits during both trash packs and boss fights when needed most. AO seems to provide too much help when I don't need it, and not enough help when I need it.

RoP vs Incanter's Flow:
With two charges of RoP on a 40 second cooldown, we have an average of 20 seconds per RoP. Depending on the keystone level and the group's gear, this is about 1 RoP for about 60% trash packs, and trash packs often don't stay up for much longer than 10 seconds. That means with experience and foresight, you can have the 40% RoP buff for almost the entire fight with RoP, or the fluctuating 4%-20% buff of Incanter's for the duration of every fight. In my experience, RoP wins every time.

When dropping RoP, move a little to the left or right. If targeted by a ground effect, this will give a bit more room for maneuvering without leaving the RoP goodness.

Banking 1-2 Arcane Missiles:

Even if it is a DPS loss on paper, bank 1-2 missiles if talented into Slipstream. The mobility this provides is amazing, and ultimately allows for more casting time. Obviously, this will depend on fight mechanics.

Keystone Pack Strats:

For each trash pack, unless its right before a boss, drop RoP, AEx4-5, ABarr, AEx4-5, etc.

When a trash pack has a high-priority target, and if it is not right before a boss fight, use PoM+MoA+RoP, and sometimes AP (depending on whether it is needed more for the next few fights).

On especially large trash packs, use RoP, AEx4, AP, AEx2-4, barrage, repeat.


I started writing some notes about affixes, but the kilt doesn't really change anything as far as I can tell.

[Jhazz]

I'm not sure about your opener. I have kilt and bracers, but I'd still pre-pot at 2 and precast blast, then CU from 1->4.

[Exton]

Thanks again @Conatus.

Solid approach to mythic+ for the arcane mage. I agree slipstream is the go to talent. The added mobility of charging forward with Arcane Missiles blazing more than makes up for Shimmer.

Side note: This is particularly effective throughout EoA and DHT 3rd Boss.

What I'm learning through experience is that switching talents from instance to instance and raid to raid is a necessity. I just returned from Cata where talents were largely a static affair. I don't suppose there is a breakdown of recommended talents based on instance out there? Are there any fights where IF is definitely superior?

[Conatus78]

I'm not sure about your opener. I have kilt and bracers, but I'd still pre-pot at 2 and precast blast, then CU from 1->4.

That makes sense, although it looks like it only adds a single 1-charge Arcane Blast to the first moments of the fight while slightly delaying the rest of the rotation.

[Conatus78]

I don't suppose there is a breakdown of recommended talents based on instance out there? Are there any fights where IF is definitely superior?

That's a good question. I find that the only thing I'm switching right now is CU for raids and some keystones, and Resonance for most keystones. I know there are particular difficult fights where I might prefer one talent, and maybe those fights define an instance in the sense that they require much more preparation than other fights. Dungeon affixes are a much bigger determining factor: with Enraging, you absolutely do not want to AOE everyone down together, so AOE focused talents lose out to single-target talents, and I'll definitely choose CU for those weeks. Bolstering, on the other hand, places special emphasis on evenly knocking down mobs, with some ability to single-target in case the group accidentally allows 5 bolstering buffs on an especially difficult trash mob.

As for IF, I think it may be the better talent only when still learning the fight. But eventually, its important to learn the patterns of movement and probable (if not certain) safe zones to drop a RoP. I remember arguing in another post that IF is just better for Mythic Il'Gynoth, numbers be damned. But after my guild wiped on that, literally 60 or more times, I knew that fight so well that RoP was easily the better talent.

But maybe for even more movement-intensive fights where ground effects are much more random, I'll prefer IF.

Of course, changing talents for particular raid bosses is still important for challenging content. Against Odyn and Guarm, CU is the better choice for kilted mages, but I prefer Resonance for Helya.

[Jhazz]

I'm not sure about your opener. I have kilt and bracers, but I'd still pre-pot at 2 and precast blast, then CU from 1->4.

That makes sense, although it looks like it only adds a single 1-charge Arcane Blast to the first moments of the fight while slightly delaying the rest of the rotation.

In terms of the fight though, it's essentially a free PoM Arcane Blast as the cast time is all pre-engagement. Damage is damage. How would it delay your rotation exactly? Pre-cast Blast into an instant CU is no more time-consuming than waiting a half second to make sure the boss has been engaged before you CU.

[Urca]

Hi there, im sorry to say that i disagree with most of what you said (of course, i could be 100% wrong).

First of all, im a 7/7M Raider, switched from bommkin to Arcane Mage for nighthold. Right now im at 887ilvl probably 890 tomorrow when i get to use my second legendary.
26.51% Crit 16.20% Haste 26.30% Mastery 9.34% Versa 35 Traits
My mage: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/i ... rca/simple" target="_blank
My druid: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/i ... rne/simple" target="_blank

So, to start things off. You say that mastery should be our top stat when every single sim i ran since 7.1.5 shows that mastery is our worst stat with haste.
Luckily enough, yesterday i got my Kilt, the second i simmed my char again, haste became more valuable than int (thats probably because of how low my haste was) and mastery became even worst.
Where did you get that stat priority from? Am i the only one that has haste as top stat on sims after getting his kilt? With mastery being the worst stat?
(Haste being the best stat would be similar to WoD stats where haste was amazing because you could cycle quicker on 90% mana which was needed back then)

I see you comparing CU with SN, when sims say that Res is the best single target talent, getting even better with every single add the fight gets.

You are suggesting not to pre cast on our opener, when you could saftley pre cast MoA (only if you have CU), which would not only be a dps increase, but at the same time, every tick stacks erosion, so that makes your burst even better.

You recommend casting the second RoP after the first one, that would be during our AP, if you cant get 3 AB off (during AP after RoP) its a dps loss, considering you are doing 2AB and 1 RP
If AB = 1kk dmg
2AB+RoP = 2.8kk while 3AB = 3kk (crit may change this but i dont like playing my spec based on lucky crits)


Ive only done like 3 normal NH fights with the kilt, and 10 min target dummy practice and from what ive seen, Charged Up is not necesary at all. I never run out of mana, even being really greedy.

I just burn all my mana on burst (With 2 RoP), then evocate back to 90%~(3 ticks), RoP again, burn all my mana and Barrage, and then do the typical WoD conservation rotation, 4AB->dump AM->Barrage. And as long as i keep on doing that my mana will keep on getting higher depending on AM procs (which will go up with 2set bonus). And as long as i am at 30% for the next AP (easily achived doing what i said before), i burn during AP, then go back to WoD Conservation, when Evo is coming off CD (which will be even faster with 4Set) i just burn to 0 and evo back again.

And while doing this, i dont think that the mana advantage you get from casting AB during AP is worth it, considering you will never run out of mana.

For what ive seen, im generally playing at around 30% mana. Making sure i can burst, and casting as many 4 charges AM as possible.

I dont know what you guys think about it, i will be testing this on Heroic NH tonight and will let you know how it went.

All stated above is beased on raiding, didnt have time to compare Arcane benefits vs Fire on m+.

Appriciate any feedback.

[Conatus78]

Hi there, im sorry to say that i disagree with most of what you said (of course, i could be 100% wrong).

I actually love disagreement-- its how I learn! As I said in the original post, I only offered my guide as a basis for improvement. And you make a lot of great points that I'll try out. Especially the point about pre-casting Mark of Aluneth. Of course that makes sense!

[Urca]

Hi there, im sorry to say that i disagree with most of what you said (of course, i could be 100% wrong).

I actually love disagreement-- its how I learn! As I said in the original post, I only offered my guide as a basis for improvement. And you make a lot of great points that I'll try out. Especially the point about pre-casting Mark of Aluneth. Of course that makes sense!

Good to know! I will try CU on trilliax and krosus this week but CU seems to be a 1.5% dps inc on sims so i dont think that a harder talent will be more viable on mythic for such a little reward.

[Cob]

Hi there, im sorry to say that i disagree with most of what you said (of course, i could be 100% wrong).

I actually love disagreement-- its how I learn! As I said in the original post, I only offered my guide as a basis for improvement. And you make a lot of great points that I'll try out. Especially the point about pre-casting Mark of Aluneth. Of course that makes sense!

Great post by both of you 2, but i'll have to agree with Urca with most of what he said. i ran NH normal last night with 5/10 kills , don;t think i did great or horrible , but CU seems to serve more of an opener than rotational , and i can't see it as a mana conserve talent unless you get an AM proc. think i will go with Reso next raid.
Stat wise , Mastery didn't help me that much from experience point of view , and i really think Versatility=crit is what i should optimize for , while haste comes just close after those 2 because of NH aoe nature.

[Nazgool]

The benefit of CU as an opener w MoA is rather significant for dps the only downside is no to low missile procs if u get a magi proc during first ap burn. But beyond that getting ap on cool down quicker is huge on some fights. Take a scorp for example. Ur ap will be back up in time for chit plate falling off. Chromatic anomaly same thing ap is back up in time for the dmg buff. Spellblade ap comes up in time for the frost adds and is then synced w every add phase. CU has many good uses outside just the opener and syncing. Including during mini burns w MoA rop pom. I have tried both and on most fights I almost always wish I just had CU instead of the minor boost to barr w resonance. Neither is bad but I prefer the sync of ap w certain aspects of fights that CU gives me esp being a kilt user

[Nazgool]

I should have the vods of our heroic splits from last night on my channel. And you can see where it synced well during fights because of CU. http://Www.twitch.tv/sprytitan05" target="_blank

We will be going back into NH tonight and try to clear tich and maybe a few more before combining grps for gul'Dan (if we can't split him)

[Zimblebun]

Curious what other Kilt-owners would choose for a second legendary from a pool of Cord of Infinity, Sephuz's Secret, Belo'vir's Final Stand, and Prydaz.

[Tipsey]

Curious what other Kilt-owners would choose for a second legendary from a pool of Cord of Infinity, Sephuz's Secret, Belo'vir's Final Stand, and Prydaz.

Of those options I would choose either sephuz or prydaz depending on the opportunity to proc sephuz. If there is a ton of spike damage in the encounter the prydaz shield may be invaluable to your healers mana pool as well and thats on top of the beefy statstick that prydaz already is.

[Aghanism]

Hi there, im sorry to say that i disagree with most of what you said (of course, i could be 100% wrong).

First of all, im a 7/7M Raider, switched from bommkin to Arcane Mage for nighthold. Right now im at 887ilvl probably 890 tomorrow when i get to use my second legendary.
26.51% Crit 16.20% Haste 26.30% Mastery 9.34% Versa 35 Traits
My mage: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/i ... rca/simple" target="_blank
My druid: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/i ... rne/simple" target="_blank

So, to start things off. You say that mastery should be our top stat when every single sim i ran since 7.1.5 shows that mastery is our worst stat with haste.
Luckily enough, yesterday i got my Kilt, the second i simmed my char again, haste became more valuable than int (thats probably because of how low my haste was) and mastery became even worst.
Where did you get that stat priority from? Am i the only one that has haste as top stat on sims after getting his kilt? With mastery being the worst stat?
(Haste being the best stat would be similar to WoD stats where haste was amazing because you could cycle quicker on 90% mana which was needed back then)

I see you comparing CU with SN, when sims say that Res is the best single target talent, getting even better with every single add the fight gets.

You are suggesting not to pre cast on our opener, when you could saftley pre cast MoA (only if you have CU), which would not only be a dps increase, but at the same time, every tick stacks erosion, so that makes your burst even better.

You recommend casting the second RoP after the first one, that would be during our AP, if you cant get 3 AB off (during AP after RoP) its a dps loss, considering you are doing 2AB and 1 RP
If AB = 1kk dmg
2AB+RoP = 2.8kk while 3AB = 3kk (crit may change this but i dont like playing my spec based on lucky crits)


Ive only done like 3 normal NH fights with the kilt, and 10 min target dummy practice and from what ive seen, Charged Up is not necesary at all. I never run out of mana, even being really greedy.

I just burn all my mana on burst (With 2 RoP), then evocate back to 90%~(3 ticks), RoP again, burn all my mana and Barrage, and then do the typical WoD conservation rotation, 4AB->dump AM->Barrage. And as long as i keep on doing that my mana will keep on getting higher depending on AM procs (which will go up with 2set bonus). And as long as i am at 30% for the next AP (easily achived doing what i said before), i burn during AP, then go back to WoD Conservation, when Evo is coming off CD (which will be even faster with 4Set) i just burn to 0 and evo back again.

And while doing this, i dont think that the mana advantage you get from casting AB during AP is worth it, considering you will never run out of mana.

For what ive seen, im generally playing at around 30% mana. Making sure i can burst, and casting as many 4 charges AM as possible.

I dont know what you guys think about it, i will be testing this on Heroic NH tonight and will let you know how it went.

All stated above is beased on raiding, didnt have time to compare Arcane benefits vs Fire on m+.

Appriciate any feedback.

ABr->CU gives you solid 12% mana back, enough for more than 1 AB, i.e a free AB and 46% (with set 2, no AM chance relic) for AM proc and 23% chance for AM proc of AM which is longer up time on 4 charges. I believe that gives more dps than 25% ABr dmg inc on ST.
Sorry for bad English

[Xelian]

Contrary to what other people simc says when I simc my character I ended up with a much higher DPS output when I used CU compared to Resonance. Like 40k or something like that on a Patchwerk sim. On a Heavy add cleaving sim Resonance showed like 3-4k more which is literally marginal especially with the bigger control over the fight CU gives you compared to Resonance.