2017.1.24 Upcoming Changes

[Tritiac]

Will these changes make is favor mastery even more now so we can keep the damage up during the conserve window?

[mythaelar]

Let me know if I'm playing suboptimally by doing this but on fights like Tichondrius where I'm regularly on add duty I spend a lot of time sitting on AP with it off cool down because I'm spamming AE + AB on the adds(at least until the priority adds come out). If that's a DPS loss please let me know, but if that's correct then this buff is actually really good in those situations compared to single target situations.

[Kypes]

Will these changes make is favor mastery even more now so we can keep the damage up during the conserve window?

without doing any research or mathematics:
You can be right. If we focus more on mastery it might be possible to get to 3 charges during conserve and therefore dealing m,ore damage. Looking forward to some mathematics/sims

[Nikodemus]

So I wonder if anyone else has run any sims with the hotfixes? I simmed my own character (886 ilvl, TW ring, kilt, shit trinkets, shit artifact) and my dps on a 4,5 minute fight went from 552k to 560k, or a 1.4% increase. I think it's pretty funny for blizzard to say arcane numbers are lacking a bit and then go for a 1,4% buff. Seems like a trick to keep people quiet when in their opinion the numbers were fine to begin with.

[Antondias]

With the 10% reduction to OP, does this change MoA usage? Use on CD or still hold it for AP?
Nerf to Amplification, does this make Arcane Familiar more viable for AoE fights? Seeing as it increases MoA dmg?

[jimmyo]

Nerf to Amplification, does this make Arcane Familiar more viable for AoE fights? Seeing as it increases MoA dmg?

I'm skeptical that the Amplication nerf will have a significant enough of an impact to make AF viable on fights. MoA's power decreased greatly with the 7.1.5 stat/talent changes. Mastery scales slower, and we also need far less of it now that quickening is gone.

At 42k intel and 32% mastery (my current figures) MoA's explosion represents approximately 41.8% of MoA's damage (271k of 647k). With AF, your'e only increasing the total of MoA's damage by 4% (298k of 674k from the explosion).

The cost of that 4% increase to MoA is a substantial loss of priority target damage. Consider that both Skorpyron and Chronomatic have bonus damage taken phases. Orbs on Ticho serves the same purpose. Spellblade has burst cleave phases, but the majority of the fight is single target.

The following sims were run without the 1/24 changes, but I do believe they are fairly instructive none-the-less. These were run with my current gear: 43 traits, 2pc bonus, 42,006 intel, 6504 crit, 6647 haste, 7500 mastery, 4092 vers, 880 Whispers, 0 dps legends (Prydaz + Belo'vir, sadly are all I have)

7minute (10% variance) Hectic Add Cleave (the majority of NH probably fits this model better)


In that AF sim, MoA's explosion represents just 1.5% of the total damage, and AM represents 17.3%.
In the Amp (marked as Jimmies) sim, MoA's explosion represents just 1.4% of the total damage, and AM represents 19.4%.

Losing 3% on Amp's bonus when you're also getting +5% on AM base damage is likely to have only a minor effect in this scenario.

7minute (10% variance) Beastlord (Skorp fits this model pretty well).


Here, in the AF sim, MoA explosion represents 6.2% of total damage, but AM represents 16.7%
In the Jimmies (Amp) sim, MoA explosion represents 5.5% of total damage, and AM represents 18.8%

AF is already competitive on overall damage, but it is so far behind on the priority damage that it's not worth it. For AF to be the go-to choice in NH mythic, it would need to be higher overall damage and highly competitive priority target damage (especially with the bonus damage taken by Skorp, Chrono, and Ticho). A 3% nerf to Amplification, when countered by a 5% buff to AM base damage is unlikely to close that gap.


Now, it's perfectly possible that different gear and the 1/24 hotfixes will yield different results. But at the moment, I'm skeptical that AF would be the way to go for any fight in NH.

[Kythos]

my impression.

they normalized the damage in the talent tree. We can now pick the talents we want for each boss fights and not get stuck in the '1 tree or dps loss' frame of mind.

rule of thumb?

ST - AMP
cleave - Orb? pairs well IF (mythic +)
AOE - aFam +AE spam --- OP or Orb?

[gurudox]

I'm not going to complain about a 1% buff, but it is a bit of a bummer that our burst was brought down. I honestly feel like bursting during crucial moments of an encounter is where arcane really shines. I'm not so worried about conserve damage, since we're always going to fall behind there due to the way the spec plays by design.

[Vynestra]

Arcane
Increased the damage of most Arcane spells and abilities by 8%. (Arcane Barrage, Arcane Blast, Arcane Explosion, Arcane Missiles, Arcane Orb, Nether Tempest, Supernova)
Overpowered now increases the damage and mana cost bonuses of Arcane Power to 60% (down from 70%).
Amplification now increases Arcane Missiles damage by 12% (down from 15%).
Designer Notes: Arcane has been doing well in 7.1.5, but its numbers are lacking a bit. We're giving them an across-the-board damage buff, but tempering that with small reductions to a couple new talents that are proving to be too strong.


Just updating -- Arcane will be getting an 8% baseline buff up from 5%, with the same talent nerfs.

What was a 1% buff seems to be much higher, these are the sims that Frosted posted in Discord ***These are Frosted's not mine, def not taking credit***



That is live, then 5% then 8%...So looks like ~4% buff.

Also our AoE just gets a flat 8%.

[Asara]

So complaining about it on the forums like all the hunters really works haha

[Deplaziert]

First post, so hi everyone

I'm not much of a theorycrafter myself but have seen some awesome work here over the last couple of months! My question is, with these new 8% changes, will Nether Tempest and Supernova be good again?

[Arindiel]

I am not so sure that just adding +x% more damage to arcane spells will solve our problems.I welcome any buff but this one doesnt seem enough.They way i see things Fire should be the king of cleave/aoe with medium ST capabilities,Frost should be good but not top in both ST and cleave/aoe fights and Arcane should be the king of ST fights with medium cleave.
The way it is now we are not even close to topping ST fights and we have close to 0 cleave capabilities(far away from medium).I aint talking about fights like Skorpyron(where you spam AE)but like fights like Guldan where 2-3adds with many hp are up at the same time.In those fights we have close to 0cleave.
What i would do if i was working for blizzard as arcane mage designer would be to buff erosion even more for ST fights AND also make Unstable Magic 25% to proc and also proc with arcane missiles and not only AB.I feel that most people dont use Unstable Magic because half of the fight they spend casting arcane missiles and not AB(which procs UM).
If that change would also make the new UM that i proposed better than erosion for ST fights as well they could just state that that primary target doesnt get that +50% extra damage but only the nearby targets do.
I dont expect to see much improvement with this 8% buff(which is actually lower with the nerf on OP and Amplification)but i would love them to give us some cleave as well because more than half of the fights in NH(and maybe 7.2 raid)are made for "cleave friendly"classes.
Sorry for the long post

[Graytree]

Arcane is not bad at cleave, arcane is bad at specifically two targets. Once you hit three targets it becomes optimal to spam AE in burn phase, or AE x4 or x5 and abarr in conserve phase. Excellent damage at 3+ targets.

[Nissinn]

Arcane is not bad at cleave, arcane is bad at specifically two targets. Once you hit three targets it becomes optimal to spam AE in burn phase, or AE x4 or x5 and abarr in conserve phase. Excellent damage at 3+ targets.

Arcane is great at 3 targets which is the breakpoint for AE taking over AB in damage. Unfortunately this also turns us into a melee class having to jump around next to the boss as a cloth wearer.

[haze]

Mastery went from my worst stat to my best after todays patch.

Edit- Is there any quick way to sim all talent combinations?

[Kythos]

Haze, check out the latest sims once they are out, Mastery is back baaaybe! (unless you have Mystic kilt)

[Deckzor]

Simmed Patchwork 612k live. With the changes i sim 676k.

Over 10% increase, i like that.

Mastery still worst stat(but i have Kilt).

[mythaelar]

Mastery is still my worst stat with the kilt, but it has almost doubled in value.

[Mage]

Simmed Patchwork 612k live. With the changes i sim 676k.

Over 10% increase, i like that.

Interesting how a 5% buff sims 10% for you.
I went from 609k to 620k with my simcraft settings/fight length, which is surprising.

[seoh]

Simmed Patchwork 612k live. With the changes i sim 676k.

Over 10% increase, i like that.

Interesting how a 5% buff sims 10% for you.
I went from 609k to 620k with my simcraft settings/fight length, which is surprising.

I had a similar result (609k to 624k). What happened to your mastery weight? I saw in another thread people said it was king, but it is still my third stat (shard/kjbw).