2017.1.24 Upcoming Changes

[timmywitt]

~EDITS~

From MMO Champion:

Arcane

- Increased the damage of most Arcane spells and abilities by ~8%~. (Arcane Barrage, Arcane Blast, Arcane Explosion, Arcane Missiles, Arcane Orb, Nether Tempest, Supernova)

- Overpowered now increases the damage and mana cost bonuses of Arcane Power to 60% (down from 70%).

- Amplification now increases Arcane Missiles damage by 12% (down from 15%).

Designer Notes: Arcane has been doing well in 7.1.5, but its numbers are lacking a bit. We're giving them an across-the-board damage buff, but tempering that with small reductions to a couple new talents that are proving to be too strong.

Excellent changes. Keeps our damage up while allowing more choice in the "required" talents. I hope the numbers are close enough that we can realistically choose the talents we enjoy most.

With that said, I think the newest buffs are particularly favoring to the extra ability talents: Supernova, Nether Tempest, and Arcane Orb because of low mana cost and taking GCDs away from mana heavy Arcane Blasts while still providing good damage. Nether Tempest additionally can be precast before Rune of Power/Arcane Power and maintain damage through it without affecting the spells within the window.

[Ddmagebags]

I wonder if, Mathematically speaking, if you are currently running OP, will this be an overall buff or nerf...


I'll wait to some new sims are out before I start changing up talents like crazy

[magerlol]

This is definitely a buff.

[Ddmagebags]

Well...

I'd like to see the actual numbers...I not too familiar with Base Spell Dmg vs. Dmg Multiplier talents...but the numbers being nerfed seem larger than the flat buff...

Another concern is that I don't want to have to run NT like we had to before.

[seoh]

Gonna have to see the numbers, but I'm unsure about the proactive OP nerf, given the spec and class as a whole, appears to be pretty undertuned, so far. I'm sure I am wrong, just my initial thoughts.


Edit: glad to see this change is actually a buff. I'm curious to see where this will land us tuning wise.

[Jhazz]

Apologies if this is inaccurate, but this is how I see it:

A four charge Arcane Blast on live does 192.4% of your spell power, multiplied by 3.88 = 746.51% SP.
Under the effects of Overpowered, this on live equates to 1269.07% SP.

A four charge Arcane Blast based on these changes will therefore do 746.51%SP*1.05 = 783.84% SP.
Under the effects of the new 60% Overpowered, this will equate to 1254.14% SP.

So (assuming I haven't gone wildly wrong with my math) we'll do just under 15%SP less damage during the 13-16 seconds while we're inside AP, but we'll deal 36%SP more for the 74-77seconds that we aren't.

For me personally:
123746*3.88=480134 (4C Blast on live)
480134*1.7=816227.8 (4C Blast using Overpowered on live)

480143*1.05=504140.7 (4C Blast with changes) --- 5% buff.
504140.7*1.6=806625.12 (4C Blast with changed using Overpowered) --- 1.2% nerf.

A four charge Arcane Missile on live does 5*(44.3% of spell power), multiplied by 3.88 = 19.4*(44.3% of spell power) = 859.42% SP.
Under the effects of Amplified, this on live equates to 5*(44.3% of spell power), multiplied by 4.48 = 22.4*(44.3% of spell power) = 992.32% SP.

A four charge Arcane Missile based on these changes will therefore do 5.25*(44.3% of spell power), multiplied by 3.88 = 20.37*(44.3% of spell power) = 902.39% SP.
Under the effects of new Amplified, this will equate to 5.25*(44.3% of spell power), multiplied by 4.36 = 22.89*(44.3% of spell power) = 1014.03% SP.

So (again, assuming I haven't gone widely wrong with my math) damage from Arcane Missiles using the new Amplified talent will actually be higher.

For me personally:
145160*3.88=563220.8 (4C Arcane Missiles on live)
145160*4.48=650316.8 (4C Arcane Missiles using Amplified on live)

3.88*(1.05*145160)=3.88*(152418)=591381.84 (4C Arcane Missiles based on changes) --- 5% buff
4.36*(1.05*145160)=4.36*(152418)=664542.48 (4C Arcane Missiles using Amplified based on changes) --- 2.19% buff

Everything else is a 5% buff. For Arcane Explosion especially, this is very nice.

If this is wrong and misleading information please feel free to remove / edit my comment so as to not confuse people.

[Jhazz]

Effectively, what this means is that we'll burst slightly less but sustain a higher dps than on live.

[Godmode_]

Are they kidding??

12% dmg bonus nerf in AM + OP nerf MAYBE Equals out the flat 5%

But its never a buff that anyone will noticed if it is a buff in reality anyway.

They say arcane is to weak and the changes represent no buff. LUL

[Jhazz]

Are they kidding??

12% dmg bonus nerf in AM + OP nerf MAYBE Equals out the flat 5%

But its never a buff that anyone will noticed if it is a buff in reality anyway.

They say arcane is to weak and the changes represent no buff. LUL

I mean... did you even read any of the replies in this thread before posting?

[loonatiq]

Im not sure about this... other specs like feral or dostro locks got flat dmg buffs and they say they want to buff us but they nerf us at the same time cause they nerfed talents that most use atm. Even if it will prove to be a buff % increase will be marginal so what is the point in their saying we need a buff and while we get marginal to non buff? Sure some spells got flat buff but most od our damage comes from AB and AM which got talents nerfed.

[Visk]

A four charge Arcane Blast on live does 192.4% of your spell power, multiplied by 3.88 = 746.51% SP.
Under the effects of Overpowered, this on live equates to 1269.07% SP.

A four charge Arcane Blast based on these changes will therefore do 746.51%SP*1.05 = 783.84% SP.
Under the effects of the new 60% Overpowered, this will equate to 1254.14% SP.

So (assuming I haven't gone wildly wrong with my math) we'll do just under 15%SP less damage during the 13-16 seconds while we're inside AP, but we'll deal 36%SP more for the 74-77seconds that we aren't.

For me personally:
123746*3.88=480134 (4C Blast on live)
480134*1.7=816227.8 (4C Blast using Overpowered on live)

480143*1.05=504140.7 (4C Blast with changes) --- 5% buff.
504140.7*1.6=806625.12 (4C Blast with changed using Overpowered) --- 1.2% nerf.

A four charge Arcane Missile on live does 5*(44.3% of spell power), multiplied by 3.88 = 19.4*(44.3% of spell power) = 859.42% SP.
Under the effects of Amplified, this on live equates to 5*(44.3% of spell power), multiplied by 4.48 = 22.4*(44.3% of spell power) = 992.32% SP.

A four charge Arcane Missile based on these changes will therefore do 5.25*(44.3% of spell power), multiplied by 3.88 = 20.37*(44.3% of spell power) = 902.39% SP.
Under the effects of new Amplified, this will equate to 5.25*(44.3% of spell power), multiplied by 4.36 = 22.89*(44.3% of spell power) = 1014.03% SP.

So (again, assuming I haven't gone widely wrong with my math) damage from Arcane Missiles using the new Amplified talent will actually be higher.

For me personally:
145160*3.88=563220.8 (4C Arcane Missiles on live)
145160*4.48=650316.8 (4C Arcane Missiles using Amplified on live)

3.88*(1.05*145160)=3.88*(152418)=591381.84 (4C Arcane Missiles based on changes) --- 5% buff
4.36*(1.05*145160)=4.36*(152418)=664542.48 (4C Arcane Missiles using Amplified based on changes) --- 2.19% buff

I find the math correct, but some numbers seem very odd to me. The first one that comes into mind is that you multiply for 4AC by 3.88 which means that 1 AC gives you 97% dmg bonus per charge? That is insane as I have 33% mastery and only 76% bonus dmg per charge, but we can assume a simple number mistake here or insane amount of mastery by your side.

Anyway, everything in general seems quite right to me as I got very similar results myself. Using the same build as the normal build right now with OP I see very minimal differences for AB and AM in OP

- about 10% less dmg of AB during OP (60%), but about 30% dmg buff with 4AC
- about 55% less dmg of AM during OP (60%), but about 15% dmg buff with 4AC and amplified

What I can conclude is that we should see almost no change - a bit less of a burst yet similar numbers due to the bigger numbers during conserve/mini burn phases. Therefore, I do not really see the point of this change. Maybe it will be a slight buff with the 2set bonus as we will have and use more AM during conserve/mini burn which dmg is buffed and also we will have more mini burns than conserve with the 4set bonus therefore there should be a more noticeable difference then, but that is just my speculation.

[Asara]

This makes our 2 tier set and our potential to get more damage weaker, i dont see this as a buff

correct me if im wrong, but AM is going to get a 3% damage reduction per arcane charge, and a 5% dmg buff overal. Doesnt this mean that from 2 arcane charges onward the damage is reduced...

[Visk]

This makes our 2 tier set and our potential to get more damage weaker, i dont see this as a buff

correct me if im wrong, but AM is going to get a 3% damage reduction per arcane charge, and a 5% dmg buff overal. Doesnt this mean that from 2 arcane charges onward the damage is reduced...

I disagree with the first statement. Our burst dmg during 70% OP will get weaker obviously, but this is 13-16s every 90s, therefore the burst period is followed by a good 74-77s at least of no AP period in which we have a buff. Simply put - for this 13-16s we will do a bit less dmg, yet for the other 74-77s we will do a bit more dmg. This sounds like a small buff for us as the respective less/more dmg in the different parts of our CDs are relatively small and the buff part is significantly longer time-wise.

As for your second point I believe you are not correct, but will have to do some more math onto this and I will have time for that tomorrow.

For anyone who might know - do they buff the spell as for example AB has 192.4% of SP, so do they buff it by flat 5% dmg on top -> 197.4%
or 5% from the 192,4% -> 9,62 (5% from 192.4%) => 202,02% ?
Same goes for AC - does the buff apply on top of the % dmg from the spell itself or is it % from the spell's dmg? (for example 70% dmg increase per charge leads to 192,4+70+70+70+70
OR 192,4+(70% from 192.4)+(70% from 192.4)...etc. ?
Same question for AP...?

[Ritterbecks]

- snip -

I find the math correct, but some numbers seem very odd to me. The first one that comes into mind is that you multiply for 4AC by 3.88 which means that 1 AC gives you 97% dmg bonus per charge? That is insane as I have 33% mastery and only 76% bonus dmg per charge, but we can assume a simple number mistake here or insane amount of mastery by your side.

Anyway, everything in general seems quite right to me as I got very similar results myself. Using the same build as the normal build right now with OP I see very minimal differences for AB and AM in OP

- about 10% less dmg of AB during OP (60%), but about 30% dmg buff with 4AC
- about 55% less dmg of AM during OP (60%), but about 15% dmg buff with 4AC and amplified

What I can conclude is that we should see almost no change - a bit less of a burst yet similar numbers due to the bigger numbers during conserve/mini burn phases. Therefore, I do not really see the point of this change. Maybe it will be a slight buff with the 2set bonus as we will have and use more AM during conserve/mini burn which dmg is buffed and also we will have more mini burns than conserve with the 4set bonus therefore there should be a more noticeable difference then, but that is just my speculation.

That's awfully wrong. Just believe the people who are capable of doing calculations fit for 5th graders, when you are not.

Multiplying by 1 is how much of an increase? Exactly! Zero percent.

That makes a factor of 3.88 a 288% increase, which equates to 72% bonus damage from mastery per AC. I.e. you even get buffed more than Jhazz's calculations suggested.

[Jhazz]

That's awfully wrong. Just believe the people who are capable of doing calculations fit for 5th graders, when you are not.

Multiplying by 1 is how much of an increase? Exactly! Zero percent.

That makes a factor of 3.88 a 288% increase, which equates to 72% bonus damage from mastery per AC. I.e. you even get buffed more than Jhazz's calculations suggested.

Are you saying my math is wrong? I get 72% buff per Arcane Charge. At 0 charges damage = x. At one charge damage = 1.72x. At two charges damage = 2.44x. At three charges damage = 3.16x. At four charges damage = 3.88x.

I'm not sure where you're suggesting I've gone wrong.

[Ritterbecks]

Not you. You have been right, mate.

[m3nsky]

This probably is taking Set Boni into account as I believe there is another chance of not needing ABarr once you push all your AM Procc rates or anything that prolongs the burn phase.

Setbonus, Traits, Rhonin, would have all done that, if you only need 20% Mana for AP/OP/RoP Burn Phase and you regen some back during it (since you procc AM while doing so which you will unleash afterwards) this might have been possible. OP now only reduces to 60% to counter it, assumption here.

In addition, Gul'dan Trinket and AP/OP/Lust and additional Exodar when Trinket pops again seems (on paper) seems to be ridiculous burst, also guessing here the 60% decrease and let's face it, every OP speccing Mage will go after that trinket.

With 4set Evocation comes sooner so again closer to Barrageless play (assuming ST and 2-Cleave).

----------
Also, considering the new traits available later on in the upcoming patches, one trait particularly seems WAY WAY WAY OP unless I am missunderstanding the tooltip:

Time and Space (Rank 1) (New) Arcane Explosion also casts at the last location where you cast Arcane Explosion within the last 6 sec.

Every time I hit AE, it echoes a second time, it is essentially doubling the AE for free?

Here are all the others:
Aegwynn's Fury (Rank 7) (New) Increases damage dealt by Arcane Missiles by 14%.
Aegwynn's Fury (Rank 8) (New) Increases damage dealt by Arcane Missiles by 16%.
Aegwynn's Imperative (Rank 7) (New) Increases the duration of Arcane Power by 7 sec.
Aegwynn's Imperative (Rank 8) (New) Increases the duration of Arcane Power by 8 sec.
Aegwynn's Intensity (Rank 1) (New) Increases the damage of Arcane Missiles by 3%.
Aegwynn's Intensity (Rank 2) (New) Increases the damage of Arcane Missiles by 6%.
Aegwynn's Intensity (Rank 3) (New) Increases the damage of Arcane Missiles by 9%.
Aegwynn's Intensity (Rank 4) (New) Increases the damage of Arcane Missiles by 12%.
Aegwynn's Intensity (Rank 5) (New) Increases the damage of Arcane Missiles by 15%.
Aegwynn's Intensity (Rank 6) (New) Increases the damage of Arcane Missiles by 18%.
Aegwynn's Intensity (Rank 7) (New) Increases the damage of Arcane Missiles by 21%.
Aegwynn's Intensity (Rank 8) (New) Increases the damage of Arcane Missiles by 24%.
Aegwynn's Wrath (Rank 7) (New) Increases critical strike chance by 7%.
Aegwynn's Wrath (Rank 8) (New) Increases critical strike chance by 8%.
Aluneth's Avarice (Rank 1) (New) Mark of Aluneth restores 15% maximum mana when it detonates.
Arcane Purification (Rank 7) (New) Increases damage dealt by Arcane Explosion by 23%.
Arcane Purification (Rank 8) (New) Increases damage dealt by Arcane Explosion by 26%.
Blasting Rod (Rank 7) (New) Increases damage dealt by Arcane Blast by 14%.
Blasting Rod (Rank 8) (New) Increases damage dealt by Arcane Blast by 16%.
Ethereal Sensitivity (Rank 7) (New) Spells have a 7% increased chance to activate Arcane Missiles.
Ethereal Sensitivity (Rank 8) (New) Spells have a 8% increased chance to activate Arcane Missiles.
Everywhere At Once (Rank 7) (New) Increases the window to activate Displacement by 7 sec, and reduces the cooldown of Displacement by 14 sec.
Everywhere At Once (Rank 8) (New) Increases the window to activate Displacement by 8 sec, and reduces the cooldown of Displacement by 16 sec.
Force Barrier (Rank 7) (New) Increases damage absorbed by Prismatic Barrier by 140%.
Force Barrier (Rank 8) (New) Increases damage absorbed by Prismatic Barrier by 160%.
Infinite (Rank 1) (New) Increases damage dealt by 1%. [PH]
Time and Space (Rank 1) (New) Arcane Explosion also casts at the last location where you cast Arcane Explosion within the last 6 sec.
Torrential Barrage (Rank 7) (New) Increases damage dealt by Arcane Barrage by 23%.
Torrential Barrage (Rank 8) (New) Increases damage dealt by Arcane Barrage by 26%.

[Mage]

With the damage shifting from burst to conserve, I have a feeling IF will overtake ROP on pure single target. WTB simcraft with updated numbers.

[Ellwy]

Math time:

x = base damage of Arcane Missiles
y = percentage of bonus damage per Arcane Charge Stack (e.g. for me it is 0.88 -> 0.6 from base, 0.13 from mastery and 0.15 from Amplification Talent)

AM dmg at 4 AC:
PRE CHANGES:
x * ( 1 + y*4)

AFTER CHANGES:
(substructing 0.03 from y since Amplification talent nerf AND multiplying overall dmg by 1.05 (5% buff))
[x * ( 1 + (y - 0.03)*4)] * 1.05

Lets expand those:
PRE: x +4xy
AFTER: 1.05*x*(1 + 4y - 0.12) => 1.05*x*( 0.88 + 4y) => x*( 0.924 + 4.2y)

So our unequation is: pre=> x*(1 + 4y) <> x*(0.924 + 4.2y) <= after
--we can divide both by x since x > 0
pre => 1+4y <> 0.924 +4.2y <= after
--we can substruct 1+4y from both sides
=> pre => 0 <> -0.076 +0.2y <= after
So for AFTER to be higher than PRE we need 0.2y > 0.076 => y >(0.076/0.2) => y > 0.38
Which is ALWAYS true, since y has a base 0.60 value.

OUTCOME! => AM will deal MORE DAMAGE after the changes

according to personal math on my character, AM will hit 2.23% harder after the changes.

[Visk]

- snip -

I find the math correct, but some numbers seem very odd to me. The first one that comes into mind is that you multiply for 4AC by 3.88 which means that 1 AC gives you 97% dmg bonus per charge? That is insane as I have 33% mastery and only 76% bonus dmg per charge, but we can assume a simple number mistake here or insane amount of mastery by your side.

Anyway, everything in general seems quite right to me as I got very similar results myself. Using the same build as the normal build right now with OP I see very minimal differences for AB and AM in OP

- about 10% less dmg of AB during OP (60%), but about 30% dmg buff with 4AC
- about 55% less dmg of AM during OP (60%), but about 15% dmg buff with 4AC and amplified

What I can conclude is that we should see almost no change - a bit less of a burst yet similar numbers due to the bigger numbers during conserve/mini burn phases. Therefore, I do not really see the point of this change. Maybe it will be a slight buff with the 2set bonus as we will have and use more AM during conserve/mini burn which dmg is buffed and also we will have more mini burns than conserve with the 4set bonus therefore there should be a more noticeable difference then, but that is just my speculation.

That's awfully wrong. Just believe the people who are capable of doing calculations fit for 5th graders, when you are not.

Multiplying by 1 is how much of an increase? Exactly! Zero percent.

That makes a factor of 3.88 a 288% increase, which equates to 72% bonus damage from mastery per AC. I.e. you even get buffed more than Jhazz's calculations suggested.

Instead of being a dick try to read what I said first. I have never said that his calculation is wrong just that this exact number seemed odd to me (sorry for being capable of mistakes) but that in overal I get the same results.