SimCraft Stat Weights

[StoneDog0055]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/d ... r/advanced

Now that I've completed my 4 set it seems my stat weights are messed up. What I mean is that the difference in weights between single target and AOE are completely at odds.

For a Patchwork fight SimCraft gives me:


And for an AOE fight it gives me these weights:



As you can see Haste goes from my worst stat to my best stat by a ton. This makes gearing up for NH progress a bitch. Most of the fights in NH are neither ST or AOE but a mix of both. Fights like Spellblade have a single target phase followed by an intense AOE phase.

So how does everyone value their stats ?? Go for a balance and be good in all situations ? Go all in on the AOE and accept that your shit at ST ??

Any thoughts on what to go for would be great.

P.S. While 4 set doesn't have any value according to the sims it did bump up my DPS by 15KDPS or so. More importantly, it has a smoother rotation with evo coming up more often. Deffently a QOL improvement.

[Ellwy]

From my experience and several math brought up in several posts, take into account these points:

Kilt changes everything, so since you ( and I don't have it ) I will leave it out:

Mastery: you need around 5-8 k mastery to feel comfortable with your mana pool. I would go for 5-6 in your case since you have wrists.
Haste: 7-9k haste (18% pref) for strong burst at opener and generally smoother rotation. Lots of fights require movement, and being able to land that extra AB in there is important.
Crit-Vers: Those 2 don't really have a soft cap, but it appears the best ratio for them dpswise is 2-1.
So for example 7k crit => 3.5 k vers.

4 set barely changes these things. It is bugged right now so it does not benefit us that much. I would go for higher ilvl gear rather than 4 set myself.
Check my armory if you like:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/f ... y/advanced" target="_blank

[Forrader]

4 set barely changes these things. It is bugged right now so it does not benefit us that much. I would go for higher ilvl gear rather than 4 set myself.

Hi!
Could you please provide more info or links - what kind of bug is that? What's wrong with 4pc?

[Ellwy]

4 set barely changes these things. It is bugged right now so it does not benefit us that much. I would go for higher ilvl gear rather than 4 set myself.

Hi!
Could you please provide more info or links - what kind of bug is that? What's wrong with 4pc?

There is a thread in this forum (arcane) named "Does 4pc not reduce evocation cd sometimes..? ".
Take a look, there is a small video of it showing.

[Roval]

4 set barely changes these things. It is bugged right now so it does not benefit us that much. I would go for higher ilvl gear rather than 4 set myself.

Hi!
Could you please provide more info or links - what kind of bug is that? What's wrong with 4pc?

There is a thread in this forum (arcane) named "Does 4pc not reduce evocation cd sometimes..? ".
Take a look, there is a small video of it showing.

I've noticed this sometimes as well, it's quite odd

[gurudox]

When you think about how we single target vs. how we AoE, it makes sense that our top stats will be at odds with each other. Less spellcasts on ST while maintaining charge stacks, so you want spells to hit as hard as possible, which is why vers and mastery are important. More spellcasts during AoE, with relatively low mana issues, so haste is best to reduce GCD here.

It's probably best to have two sets of gear based on the encounter, one for ST and one for AoE. If you're not up for min/maxing like this, then you should probably try to strike a balance between all the stats.

[StoneDog0055]

It's probably best to have two sets of gear based on the encounter, one for ST and one for AoE. If you're not up for min/maxing like this, then you should probably try to strike a balance between all the stats.

I have no problem running two sets of gear. One for ST fights like Krosos and one for more aoe fights like Skorpyon. The problem is fights like spellblade / tich which have phases of both. So I'll need to balance my stats between the two for these fights... just having issues finding the right balance between them.

[Xelian]

I have almost the same problem as you. Literally changing a talent or a single item shifts my best and lowest stats. At some point all my stats were worth between 12 and 13 and ended up withing simc error margin. After I got the Mystic Kilt legendary mastery dropped by about 2 points and haste went up a bit. I still don't have the 4-th set bonus but I suspect it will drop mastery again. Also from what I know Haste is a bit tricky for arcane mages. It's value increases around 18% and 24% and decrease in between. I will suggest that you simc your character after every item you get. Legendaries especially.

[a0kalittlema0n]

I'm going to give my opinion on this since I feel a bit......strongly on stat weights and the misrepresentation this APL of Arcane gives us in regards to stat weights.

Personally I run 20%+ haste generally, unless I have a huge upgrade that'll bring me below 20%

As you've stated, most of NH is AoE, with the exception of Krosus, Trilliax, and I guess Star Augur (until padding at the end). This favors haste > all since that is most beneficial to AoE (not to mention M+)

As far as ST goes, I feel haste is highly misrepresented since the APL on most sims (patchwerk) doesn't account for movement at all, so it is valuing haste less, and mastery more since we're casting 100% of the time. I feel mastery is still lower than all stats in ST, since there IS movement, which gives more time to regen mana, less actual casting time, and increases the value of haste in being able to get off casts before movement is necessary.

A giant overmagnification of this scenario would be getting the Fel Ejection on Star Augur Etraeus. You get the debuff (assuming no AMs) and you can move, cast, move, cast, move, cast but if you're haste is too low, you can't get off a cast inbetween and you're left to only AM, Abarrage, or AE, while the debuff lasts for the 4 or so seconds. Definitely suboptimal compared to casting AB inbetween.

Haste is king for us atm, with crit and vers being the main things that increase damage, and mastery being more of a comfort stat as far as mana-wise goes and changes how much of it you need depending on your legendaries.

[Haruichi]

A giant overmagnification of this scenario would be getting the Fel Ejection on Star Augur Etraeus. You get the debuff (assuming no AMs) and you can move, cast, move, cast, move, cast but if you're haste is too low, you can't get off a cast inbetween and you're left to only AM, Abarrage, or AE, while the debuff lasts for the 4 or so seconds. Definitely suboptimal compared to casting AB inbetween.

This, to the point, was my experience on our last Augur kill. I've never been at 20% haste, though, but I increased haste a bit by switching some gear around and it allowed me to move-cast-move on Fel Ejection. That's just one scenario, of course, and not something you reasonably plan your entire gearing strategy around.

I've run a number of different gear setups and countless sims, but I can't in any way get the same representation of haste in sims. As you say, the Arcane APL is wonky, but still. I'm at a point with 28c15h26m10v (bracers and shard) and I consider my sim results to be unreasonable. With this setup, Mastery sims as my highest stat, which is odd to me since I'm under the so called haste cap and have a mana conserving legendary. I do have Erratic Metronome, but even so.

Additionally, sim wise, I'm also at a point where my stat weights fluctuate wildly by even a marginal change of gear. Very roughly put: If I put on a mastery ring, haste becomes my best stat by a margin of 12-15% and vice versa if I opt for a haste ring.

Like you, I've got an understanding that I ought to prioritize haste even further - to be at least above 17%. However, I can't in any way get sims to demonstrate that. Are you able to get sims to even approximate the value you put on haste as described or is your choice to run 20% haste solely based on experiences from raids?

[a0kalittlema0n]

"Like you, I've got an understanding that I ought to prioritize haste even further - to be at least above 17%. However, I can't in any way get sims to demonstrate that. Are you able to get sims to even approximate the value you put on haste as described or is your choice to run 20% haste solely based on experiences from raids?"

The problem is that SimC is a machine, it only works as well as we make it to work. It isn't perfectly optimized to represent raid environments perfectly. It is an AMAZING tool for being able to understand how stat weights work, what effects having too much of one thing does, etc. What it isn't is a perfect amazing tool for perfectly representing raid encounters. The fact that movement isn't included, and when it is it isn't optimal, is a huge flaw in the stat weights. TBH I haven't even simmed myself to figure out my best stat weights since before 7.1.5, I just don't really agree with what it typically says and my understanding of the stats is enough to have a general idea and realize that it'll be relatively close to the best. Trying to min/max with stat weights before your gameplay is perfected (or bettered) is just chopping off branches not chopping down the trunk.

TBH I've run with 25% haste and more depending on my upgrades. I have gone as low as 18% I think, but I definitely run more haste than "suggested" due to my understanding of how the stats work and lack of representation. It used to be a "non-factor" that it didn't calculate movement so well because we had blink and ice floes, which helped to Always Be Casting, and that made sims more representative, but now we still lack movement enough to effect it significantly, yeah we can AM and move, but we don't always have that, fire has scorch, but the sim never casts it since it never moves, Frost might be most accurate since they still have ice floes.

[Mage]

Haste is indeed better in the "real game" than in sims. But to an extent.
First of all it is much better in an AOE scenario which is present on many bosses. While it might seem as "padding" to people doing heroic, things must actually die fast during mythic progression. Second, as mentioned, movement. But movement penalties can often (not always) be offset with skill at timing/predicting mechanics. I would say that the higher your skill, the less haste is important over the patchwerk sim. Myself having to do half of the mythic NH still, I am keeping it at ~20%.