No PBoI proc on burst

[Zbucium]

What is the best way to deal with it?
Ideally PBoI procs before we get to the 4 AC for the first time and get in Alter Time (with Arcane Power etc).
During my last raid I had really bad luck with PBoI, quite often I didn't get the proc in time. So, I'm wondering what is the best way to deal with this sort of bad luck?

Possible approaches (if PBoI does not proc in time for the first time we get to 4 AC):
1. Business as usual: pop the CDs as soon as we hit 4AC, if PBoI procs inside AT ... tough luck! We have the buff only for <6s but we have all the other buffs extended by 6s;
2. Delay AT: when reaching the first time 4charges without PBoI burn missiles and ABr, start over from 0AC, PBoI should proc by the time we get to 4 AC again, then use Alter Time;
3. pop the CD macro (Alter Time, AP etc.). If PBoI procs inside Alter Time cancel the Alter Time buff since the PBoI buff is stronger than the Alter Time (or is it?);
4. any other way?

For the 2nd option by the time I'd pop CDs the meta proc would be over (or close to) and also the Toxic Totem proc. But I'd get the benefit of Alter Time: 3-4 AM/AB and an ABr at 4 stacks.

For the 3rd option there is no benefit from Alter Time. This requires an extra keybind to cancelaura AT (hitting the AT button again would only end AT early). It also requires very close tracking the AT buff, duration and trinket proc (in short, it requires a bit more attention and more opportunity to mess up).

Restating the question: What is more valuable at the start of the fight?
- AT at the very start with full buffs and lose PBoI inside AT, gain full 6s extension of all other initial buffs
- delay AT till we get the PBoI: by that time most most other buffs are close to over but PBoI will be extended by 6s
- use AT at the very start and cancel AT if PBoI procs inside AT: we get full benefit of PBoI but other buffs aren't extended by AT
- any other option?

EDIT for clarity.

[BioBall]

What is the best way to deal with it?

Swear... repeatedly...

[Ghanjo]

Last raid I tested precasting Flamestrike on Garrosh, to get the dot ticking and get extra chances at trinket procs. I had both trinkets up when I reached four stacks of arcane charge every pull. It is probably a dps loss to not precast Arcane Blast, but I would rather loose a little dps and have almost guaranteed trinkets.

[Trustbucket]

Last raid I tested precasting Flamestrike on Garrosh, to get the dot ticking and get extra chances at trinket procs. I had both trinkets up when I reached four stacks of arcane charge every pull. It is probably a dps loss to not precast Arcane Blast, but I would rather loose a little dps and have almost guaranteed trinkets.

Problem with this is if your trinkets proc right away, you need to cast 4 AB to get to max stacks, and your main procs will be over by then and you will be forced to AT early with procs and have a weaker burst because of it. Not worth it to open with anything but AB except if a fight is cleve and NT is much more valuable than ST damage.

Best way to deal with trinket procs is to AB to 4 stacks, and if you are missing a proc then fire blast with counterspell for 2 chances to proc trinkets. If you don't get procs by then you are not going to have a good pull so either AT without ICD and either lose the proc if you want AT or better in my opinion to wait for ICD to AT (weaker burst but better overall in my experience).

[Komma]

Best way to deal with trinket procs is to AB to 4 stacks, and if you are missing a proc then fire blast with counterspell for 2 chances to proc trinkets. If you don't get procs by then you are not going to have a good pull so either AT without ICD and either lose the proc if you want AT or better in my opinion to wait for ICD to AT (weaker burst but better overall in my experience).

Counterspell does not proc trinkets on targets that are immune to silence.

It is fairly easy to test this - go spam Counterspell at the raiding dummy for 5 minutes straight. Nothing happens. Change your target to the dungeon (level 92) dummies instead. You'll notice that RPPM trinkets proc fairly frequently if you Counterspell them, and possibly PBoI as well.

[Trustbucket]

Best way to deal with trinket procs is to AB to 4 stacks, and if you are missing a proc then fire blast with counterspell for 2 chances to proc trinkets. If you don't get procs by then you are not going to have a good pull so either AT without ICD and either lose the proc if you want AT or better in my opinion to wait for ICD to AT (weaker burst but better overall in my experience).

Counterspell does not proc trinkets on targets that are immune to silence.

It is fairly easy to test this - go spam Counterspell at the raiding dummy for 5 minutes straight. Nothing happens. Change your target to the dungeon (level 92) dummies instead. You'll notice that RPPM trinkets proc fairly frequently if you Counterspell them, and possibly PBoI as well.

Meh you're just unlucky, test it for more than 5 minutes Kappa.

Thanks for that though I was under the assumption it worked on bosses too. Soo trick is to use a toy item which is attackable and can be CSed, right?

[Kver]

I suppose that would work with one of those summonable dummies if you manage to put it somewhere and then make a focustarget macro. Seems like a lot of trouble though.

[Dutchmagoz]

Can't summon those toys/dummies in raids sadly.

@OP: delay alter time for PBOI.

[Trustbucket]

Can't summon those toys/dummies in raids sadly.

oh rip gamebreaking trick.

Could have sworn I have seen those cow in a tornado thing flying around during a couple raids.

[durrtygoodz]

Could have sworn I have seen those cow in a tornado thing flying around during a couple raids.

That's from a non combat pet i think

[skiz]

What is the best way to deal with it?

Swear... repeatedly...

This. Sometimes bad luck is just bad luck and there is almost nothing you can do about it. I've got a perfect example here: 40 Seconds with Bl no AM procc. I did not know when I should do AT there. If you're bored you could calculate the chance of that event...

1. Business as usual: pop the CDs as soon as we hit 4AC, if PBoI procs inside AT ... tough luck! We have the buff only for <6s but we have all the other buffs extended by 6s;
2. Delay AT: when reaching the first time 4charges without PBoI burn missiles and ABr, start over from 0AC, PBoI should proc by the time we get to 4 AC again, then use Alter Time;
3. pop the CD macro (Alter Time, AP etc.). If PBoI procs inside Alter Time cancel the Alter Time buff since the PBoI buff is stronger than the Alter Time (or is it?);
4. any other way?

1. not worth it with bis trinkets. May be an option if you play immerseus / garrosh. Highstacks of garrosh + meta + proccs.
2. Sounds nice, prefer to stick with 1 charge am before droping stacks if single target and I can not refresh my bomb soon. Or even better multidot if possible. Using fireblast to get a procc sims out to be a dps loss.
3. This one is tricky. If you're the lucky boy you will get enough AM proccs to have a good result by canceling alter time. Keep in mind that you lose everything AT provides: no free barrage, no free AM proccs, no +6 seconds on heroism and shit. DO NOT.
4. I prefer to not use swifty macros. RPPM stuff usually proccs better at pulls pop AP with it, while delaying AT + Gloves + trollracial till you got the proccs you want: atleast immerseus trinket.

[Wombocombo]

Sometimes you just get screwed, no getting around it. But what I have found helps is popping a mana gem early (as in when you first hit 4 stacks with no PBoI still) and spamming AB at 4 stacks. Sure, you'll lose some seconds on your mana gem by not pairing it with AT, but at least you won't have to delay/dumpstacks/gooom or risk using AT and having to /cancelaura or lose procs.

Of course nothing is guaranteed, but a lot of the time this will help. Might not give you the best possible burst, but still probably better than what would have happened.

[supervixen]

This non PBoI procc'ing is KILLING me.

[Berlinia]

What is the best way to deal with it?

Swear... repeatedly...

For a time we were 2 Arcane Mages in my guild and what was always happened was we were swearing at TS for the trinket to proc. Both of us. And for some reason when I went to Fire it always procs within the first 4 casts.

[Shangalar]

Because you get Ignite as Fire from the beginning up on the target. Any damage event can proc it. That's also why typically it procs faster on fights with more targets like Protectors. On Paragons I just start by putting LB on all three of them and then start casting. By the time we switch to Skeer it could be up.

Also, there's a great way to solve this problem - just remove whatever tracks your PBoI ignorance is bliss. You'll know it by the damage meters

[Berlinia]

As fire i have started ignoring PBoI. I just AT with HU/HS and 5-6 stacks of BBoY

[Carwey]

If there's no PBoI proc at 4 stacks of arcane charges, I usually fireblast and cast another arcane blast and refresh living bomb. If it still hasn't procced you might as well just try to throw your hands up in the air and find a mechanic that kills you.