[7.3 - 7.3.5 Crit Build Guide]

Guides and discussions of all things specific to the Pyromaniacs of Azeroth.
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Preheet
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[7.3 - 7.3.5 Crit Build Guide]

Unread postby Preheet Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:55 am

Fire Mage Crit Build Guide - 7.3 - 7.3.5


*** Fire Damage was increased by 3% Recently to compensate for the "Ignite-Bug Nerf" ***

Welcome Everyone!
Spoiler:
Shit gets serious
I thought I would make a post regarding the surge of interest regarding Crit Stacking in Antorus. Hopefully this mini-guide will help some of you out there looking to get onto the path towards those juicy Pyro chains outside of Combustion, and in my opinion, results in a much more enjoyable playstyle! Please keep in mind this is primarily a SINGLE TARGET SPEC/BUILD, and shouldn't be confused with a "24/7 way to play our class". Yes you can play this on cleave/AoE fights, but there are more than likely much better alternatives. I'm writing this based on my experience in Mythic Antorus, and as such the information regarding boss fights listed below should be understood based on the Mythic version of the fights (whether it be extra adds, etc etc)

Let's get to the info shall we?

THE BASICS!

In order to first start looking at playing the Crit build viably, note that I'm using the term in reference to playing it at a competitive level, there are a few things that are 99% of the time essential to its success.

#1) T21 4PC - AKA http://www.wowhead.com/spell=251857 & http://www.wowhead.com/spell=251858 ~ The 2/4Set is a huge plus for this build as it allows us to get longer, more lucrative Combustion phases. The extra 2 seconds on Combustion (not counting your http://www.wowhead.com/spell=238055 relics), is the difference between fitting in those extra http://www.wowhead.com/item=132406 procs that you otherwise wouldn't have had time for, not to mention being able to drop your second http://www.wowhead.com/spell=116011 with time still remaining (should you feel comfy enough to be running it)

#2) http://www.wowhead.com/spell=205020 - This is probably one of the most important ones. If you haven't spent enough time adjusting to the extra procs this talent gives you, don't fret, practice makes perfect. This talent can be a HUGE bonus to your playstyle if you utilize it correctly. The extra procs you get from this talent synergize so extremely well with http://www.wowhead.com/spell=155148 that you'll be happy you spent the time practicing how to spam your Pyroblast button every time you throw out a Fireball/Pyro cast. Not to mention that, most of the time, THEY CRIT ANYWAY

#3) - Trinkets Currently, there are a few ways you can go when it comes to trinkets. I'll probably get thrown some shade for saying this, but http://www.wowhead.com/item=151955&bonus=3612:1502 is quite honestly far too strong to not be one of our two choices. The uptime is ridiculous, and every stat that this trinket gives you is an added bonus to an already solid playstyle. When http://www.wowhead.com/spell=253260 procs during your http://www.wowhead.com/spell=190319, you better hold onto your http://www.wowhead.com/item=4499, because s*** gets real.
For our second option, we have a few, interchangeable options. http://www.wowhead.com/item=141482&bonus=3573:1522 is still incredibly solid, if you're lucky enough to have been blessed by RNJesus.
http://www.wowhead.com/item=154177&bonus=1502:3983 is a good choice, but is much better if you can viably proc the bonus empowerment often enough (whole other discussion we'll save for a rainy day), and of course http://www.wowhead.com/item=147017&bonus=3563:1512 and http://www.wowhead.com/item=151969&bonus=3612:1502 is always a great choice, especially for fights like Kin'Garoth. If you're one of the few to have gotten http://www.wowhead.com/item=154172, go ahead and throw that on, but just know everyone hates you. 8-) For a more complex breakdown of our trinkets, feel free to check out https://bloodmallet.github.io/, it's a great website that has plenty of utility and can help guide you when picking trinkets/relics.


STATS & ITEMIZATION!

So, you've got the aforementioned down packed (or close to it), now what.. For starters, the Crit build only really gets juicy when you can achieve:
Around 63-65% Crit Rating (personal testing & not backed by any mathz, but its a rough ballpark figure)
Around 20-23% Haste ("ditto")
Around 19-22% Mastery ("ditto")
Around 9-13% Versatility ("srsditto')
These are the numbers you want to be aiming for to start with. In my personal experience. Taking http://www.wowhead.com/spell=205020 & http://www.wowhead.com/spell=190319 and simming yourself (SimC addon into Raidbots), your stat weights should put Crit as your highest priority. When you hit 65%, start looking to invest in some more Haste & Mastery. Remember, the best way to check where you're at is to consistently sim yourself, this can't be stressed enough. Trust me & thank me later. It's worth the time investment. Add-ons like Pawn and SimC are invaluable

If you need some help with "simming", I made a video that goes over the entire process.. check it out here ->https://youtu.be/UcOsWFSNX4k


PLAYSTYLE!

The whole point to this build can be described as follows:
Getting your http://www.wowhead.com/spell=190319 uptime as high as possible
Reducing the Cooldown of your http://www.wowhead.com/spell=190319 as much as possible
Having good sustained damage in your non-http://www.wowhead.com/spell=190319 phases
Having more http://www.wowhead.com/item=132406 procs during and outside of http://www.wowhead.com/spell=190319 (through criting more ofc)
and one of my favorites, not having to sit there spamming Fireball for all of eternity with out a single crit

The logic is such that: The more you Crit -> The more you utilize your http://www.wowhead.com/spell=195283 procs -> The more chances you have at getting http://www.wowhead.com/item=132406 procs -> The lower your Combustion CD -> The more damage you deal -> GG

Things to keep in mind
- You will inevitably munch http://www.wowhead.com/spell=205020 procs if you are not used to using the talent. practice with it
- The build is very gear/itemization dependent. sim yourself after every upgrade to make sure you aren't overcapping on certain stats
- http://www.wowhead.com/item=144355 is incredible with this build, but is very situational. It doesn't pull ahead of http://www.wowhead.com/item=132410 Single Target, but drastically improves on 2T+ fights (High Command, Portal Keeper, Eonar, etc) As people start to get more gear and reach higher stat caps, maybe this will come into play on ST encounters, but as of right now I don't see it being the case based on where we are at gear wise.


Thank you all for taking the time to read my mini-guide, and I hope it helps some of you out there who weren't too sure about where to start. As always, comments, concerns, hate-mail and suggestions are always welcome.

Preheet#1635 or @ preheetwow@gmail.com
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Last edited by Preheet on Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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magsteg
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Re: [7.3 - 7.3.5 Crit Build Guide]

Unread postby magsteg Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:34 am

tyvm
Zauberdings
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Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:12 pm

Re: [7.3 - 7.3.5 Crit Build Guide]

Unread postby Zauberdings Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:31 pm

Could you give us your simc export?
I want to sim with your stuff and compare it to mine.

Since i had the same "feeling" about the crit build. But actually using it, was a simc dps loss of around 70k.
CaliFireMage
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Re: [7.3 - 7.3.5 Crit Build Guide]

Unread postby CaliFireMage Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:27 pm

when do you cast PF? With the gloves, thats where I run into trouble.
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Preheet
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Re: [7.3 - 7.3.5 Crit Build Guide]

Unread postby Preheet Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:15 am

Could you give us your simc export?
I want to sim with your stuff and compare it to mine.

Since i had the same "feeling" about the crit build. But actually using it, was a simc dps loss of around 70k.
Here's my current ST Setup (Ring/Bracers)
Spoiler:
# SimC Addon 1.9.1

mage="Preheetxd"
level=110
race=troll
region=us
server=malganis
role=spell
professions=alchemy=800/herbalism=800
talents=1122121
spec=fire
artifact=54:0:0:0:0:753:4:752:4:1340:1:1640:1:762:1:1533:4:1534:1:1535:1:1536:28:749:4:748:1:761:1:750:4:751:4:763:1:754:4:755:4:756:4:757:4:1372:1:758:1:759:1:760:1
crucible=1739:1782:754/1739:1782:752/1739:1774:751

head=,id=151943,bonus_id=3612/1522/3337
neck=,id=152283,enchant_id=5439,bonus_id=3612/1502/3528
shoulder=,id=152141,bonus_id=3612/1502/3528
back=,id=152136,enchant_id=5310,gem_id=151580,bonus_id=3611/1808/1497/3336
chest=,id=152140,bonus_id=3611/1507/3337
shirt=,id=151116
wrist=,id=132406,bonus_id=1811/3630
hands=,id=152137,enchant_id=5444,bonus_id=3612/1502/3528
waist=,id=134391,bonus_id=3536/1627/3337
legs=,id=152424,bonus_id=3612/40/1502/3528
feet=,id=151939,bonus_id=3612/1507/3336
finger1=,id=134524,enchant_id=5427,bonus_id=3536/1597/3336
finger2=,id=132410,enchant_id=5428,gem_id=151580,bonus_id=3459/3630
trinket1=,id=151955,gem_id=151580,bonus_id=3611/1808/1487/3528
trinket2=,id=154177,bonus_id=3984/3997
main_hand=,id=128820,gem_id=155849/155846/155849,bonus_id=730,relic_id=3612:1512:3528/3611:1517:3337/3612:1512:3528
off_hand=,id=133959
Currently, Norg's is equipped but you can change that for something else if you'd like
Last edited by Preheet on Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Preheet
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Re: [7.3 - 7.3.5 Crit Build Guide]

Unread postby Preheet Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:17 am

when do you cast PF? With the gloves, thats where I run into trouble.
When you're running Gloves with this build, you're popping Combustion on the rip, so ideally your opener should look something like:
Pre-pot
Pre-cast Pyro ~4sec
Combustion (+on use trinkets should you be running any) before it leaves your hands
Weave Pheonix Flames
Drop RoP
Continue opener, prioritizing Bracers procs > all else

You also want to make sure that you're comfy with the "Reduces Combustion Cooldown by 9 seconds". If you're about to have an add-wave and you're sitting on 2/almost 3 stacks of PF, dump one and go into your Combustion rotation. Ideally you never want to sit on 3 stacks of PF, but want to use them to extent your mini pyro chains.
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Akarim
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Re: [7.3 - 7.3.5 Crit Build Guide]

Unread postby Akarim Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:49 am

When im playing with my crit build (gloves and bracers for the most part) i pretty much never get to 3 PF stacks anyways because combustion cooldown goes down to ~55s for me. Meaning the only time i actually use PF outside combustion is when im either waiting on priority adds and got really lucky with Pheonix Reborn (which almost never happens) or when im dumping 1 PF into a non combustion opener in fights like kin'garoth.
gatomon_ca
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Re: [7.3 - 7.3.5 Crit Build Guide]

Unread postby gatomon_ca Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:55 am

Hey I have played with pyromaniac. Can u please elaborate on how to use it? And what do you mean by it changes playstyle? :)

Much appreciated
Zauberdings
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Re: [7.3 - 7.3.5 Crit Build Guide]

Unread postby Zauberdings Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:25 am

Hey I have played with pyromaniac. Can u please elaborate on how to use it? And what do you mean by it changes playstyle? :)
It changes is in regards of:
1) On pull you precast and immediately start with combustion // Instead of weaving Firestarter Procs.
2) You need to pay attention when/if pyromaniac procs // It´s really tough since you are not used to this proc
3) You REALLY need to pay attention - since missing/munching those procs is a dps loss compared to a perfect firestarter rotation.
4) Due to not starting with firestarter, your combustion timings will be different you are used to.

My main advice: If Pyromaniac sims a decent amount higher -> Get good with it. Practice on LFR/Normal/Dummy - best thing is to start off at maximum cast-Range. So you got a grace period for noticing the proc :)

If Pyromaniac doesnt sim much higher -> You should learn it anyways, since high ilvl gear WILL benefit from pyromaniacs later. So better get used to it now :)
Aesear
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Re: [7.3 - 7.3.5 Crit Build Guide]

Unread postby Aesear Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:38 pm

Hey I have played with pyromaniac. Can u please elaborate on how to use it? And what do you mean by it changes playstyle? :)
It changes is in regards of:
1) On pull you precast and immediately start with combustion // Instead of weaving Firestarter Procs.
2) You need to pay attention when/if pyromaniac procs // It´s really tough since you are not used to this proc
3) You REALLY need to pay attention - since missing/munching those procs is a dps loss compared to a perfect firestarter rotation.
4) Due to not starting with firestarter, your combustion timings will be different you are used to.

My main advice: If Pyromaniac sims a decent amount higher -> Get good with it. Practice on LFR/Normal/Dummy - best thing is to start off at maximum cast-Range. So you got a grace period for noticing the proc :)

If Pyromaniac doesnt sim much higher -> You should learn it anyways, since high ilvl gear WILL benefit from pyromaniacs later. So better get used to it now :)
How does it change the rotation? So, in our normal rotation if we shoot a pyroblast off, do we wait to see if it procs pyromaniac and do an instant pyroblast? Or do we keep up the normal fireball --> pyroblast, so it just ends up saving a fire blast in our normal rotation?

Then in combustion do we wait to see if our pyroblast procs another pyroblast? Then just fire it off instantly?
z0nkey
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Re: [7.3 - 7.3.5 Crit Build Guide]

Unread postby z0nkey Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:11 pm

Since this build is geared more towards ST fights, is there a "sweet spot" in terms of crit/haste/mastery for both ST and multi-target? Since a lot of fights are cleave is it still better to get 65% crit or focus on less crit and higher mastery?
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Preheet
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Re: [7.3 - 7.3.5 Crit Build Guide]

Unread postby Preheet Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:17 am

For me, personally, after several weeks of mythics antorus, and having been mostly using this setup.. my sweet spot is currently 66% Crit, 23% Haste, 20% Mastery.

That being said, on pulls where you're lusting on the rip, it's VERY easy to munch pyro procs when using Pyromaniac should you not be accustom to using it well.

For cleave fights (primarily referring to High Command, as I have been running Crit Build on that boss most weeks), sacrificing a little Crit/Haste for some more Mastery is great, but anything under 60% Crit and you'll notice the endless casts of Fireball become more prominent. Again, this is just based off of my experience.
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Preheet
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Re: [7.3 - 7.3.5 Crit Build Guide]

Unread postby Preheet Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:21 am


How does it change the rotation? So, in our normal rotation if we shoot a pyroblast off, do we wait to see if it procs pyromaniac and do an instant pyroblast? Or do we keep up the normal fireball --> pyroblast, so it just ends up saving a fire blast in our normal rotation?

Then in combustion do we wait to see if our pyroblast procs another pyroblast? Then just fire it off instantly?
It changes the rotation in regards to playing Firestarter. Since you want to reduce the cooldown of Combustion as much as possible, using it on pull allows us to get a head start.

The rotation I use is as follows: (You can compare this to what you'd normally do with Firestarter and see the difference)

Pre-pot + Pre-cast Pyro -> Pop Combustion before it ends -> Phoenix Flames -> RoP -> Pyro chain with PF and FB -> Second RoP -> Continue Chain

*** Keeping in mind you need to be careful for Pyromaniac procs, as to not munch them/waste a PF/FB ***
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Tyngstaa
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Re: [7.3 - 7.3.5 Crit Build Guide]

Unread postby Tyngstaa Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:02 pm

Are you playing IF or RoP on most (mythic) encounters?
Should i learn to play with RoP on progress in your opinion?
britt2376
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Re: [7.3 - 7.3.5 Crit Build Guide]

Unread postby britt2376 Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:54 pm

I've been trying to gear for this build, i'm no where near the crit needed for it yet (i'm at 55%) but i'm working on it....Firestarter is simming higher for me than Pyromaniac by almost 2% according to Raidbots....is this because I don't have enough crit yet?....
Elderberry
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Re: [7.3 - 7.3.5 Crit Build Guide]

Unread postby Elderberry Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:30 pm

Preheet, aiming for these stat stacks and in general having your blueprint as a bullseye to aim for has added healthy incentive to this tier.

I think I have just reached a spot with crit haste and mast where I can discontinue firestarter and have taken up pyromaniac.

I think a good point was made above about range.

I've found that this build + pyromaniac benefits from being near max range which leads me to an observation. Its interesting that this build sort of brings to the forefront fire mage's current raid utility. In other words, by aiming to maximize our dps, we inadvertently position ourselves appropriately and apply burst dps when the raid needs us to do so. Good designing IMO because we are happy and the raid benefits.

Question about versa in this build. It is an afterthought for us it seems and mine is very low (4% - 8% even at 859ilvl). Is there maybe a ratio you'd recommend relating mastery to versa? How do you make the decision to increase your versa a little at the expense of say mastery or haste? I know that 65% crit is kind of a firm value in this build, so just wanted to get your thought process on this.
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Preheet
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Re: [7.3 - 7.3.5 Crit Build Guide]

Unread postby Preheet Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:12 pm

I've been trying to gear for this build, i'm no where near the crit needed for it yet (i'm at 55%) but i'm working on it....Firestarter is simming higher for me than Pyromaniac by almost 2% according to Raidbots....is this because I don't have enough crit yet?....
If you take Pyromaniac + Kindling and Sim yourself with those talents, It will more than likely tell you that Crit is weighted much heavier than the rest, so basically yes, you need more Crit (Around 65% is where you see Crit start to fall behind Haste/Mastery... Keep working on the build, you'll get there and be happy once you do!
Are you playing IF or RoP on most (mythic) encounters?
Should i learn to play with RoP on progress in your opinion?
I've been taking RoP with this build for a few boss fights to test out our burst window, but generally speaking, RoP is only a DPS increase if you can utilize it fully.. Example: taking RoP on Varimathras is only beneficial if you know you can stand in its full duration before having to move out of void zones, etc.

Learning to play with RoP is rewarding, but only insofar as you're aware of your timings and what's going to happen next. IF if you just want to pewpew.
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Preheet
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Re: [7.3 - 7.3.5 Crit Build Guide]

Unread postby Preheet Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:16 pm

Preheet, aiming for these stat stacks and in general having your blueprint as a bullseye to aim for has added healthy incentive to this tier.

I think I have just reached a spot with crit haste and mast where I can discontinue firestarter and have taken up pyromaniac.

I think a good point was made above about range.

I've found that this build + pyromaniac benefits from being near max range which leads me to an observation. Its interesting that this build sort of brings to the forefront fire mage's current raid utility. In other words, by aiming to maximize our dps, we inadvertently position ourselves appropriately and apply burst dps when the raid needs us to do so. Good designing IMO because we are happy and the raid benefits.

Question about versa in this build. It is an afterthought for us it seems and mine is very low (4% - 8% even at 859ilvl). Is there maybe a ratio you'd recommend relating mastery to versa? How do you make the decision to increase your versa a little at the expense of say mastery or haste? I know that 65% crit is kind of a firm value in this build, so just wanted to get your thought process on this.
Ill be honest, I haven't been playing around too much with range, but I can understand where you're coming from and of course being at max range is only a benefit to us and the raid (good example would be on High Command, where you'd want to bait the Felstorm charges out of the melee)

Regarding Versatility, I'm currently sitting at 8%, and while Vers is basically a damage done/taken multiplier, it benefits us only insofar as we arent sacrificing another stats threshold. Meaning that getting your Vers to 15% won't do you any good if you're lacking, say, Crit or Haste. I will say though, that Vers becomes far more imporant on fights like Mythic Argus, as the damage reduction for the raid team as a whole far outweights the extra few percentages of Crit/Mast/Haste we'd get. Meaning that you'd want to be grabbing the Vers buff instead of the Crit/Mast buff. (Speaking about Mythic ofc)
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Monkey
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Re: [7.3 - 7.3.5 Crit Build Guide]

Unread postby Monkey Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:27 am

Regarding pyromaniac, if it procs while combustion is on cooldown, what do you do?
Cast another fireball into pyro or something else?
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Preheet
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Re: [7.3 - 7.3.5 Crit Build Guide]

Unread postby Preheet Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:22 am

Regarding pyromaniac, if it procs while combustion is on cooldown, what do you do?
Cast another fireball into pyro or something else?
It WILL proc when Combustion is on cooldown (pray that procs as often as possible imo), and yes, usually weaving a Fireball with it is optimal, however sometimes due to movement, etc, you can't. Dump it. If it procs DURING Combustion, throw out as many Pyros as you can :)
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