Does anyone use Kindling?

[Zrog]

Just wondering if any of the Mythic Fire Mages is making use of Kindling as a talent...

I'm curious about when it becomes a viable talent, and when one would use it.

Of course, the answer might be: it sucks, don't ever use it... heh.

[Nisroc]

Personally i tend to use it for high movement fights where it is difficult to get full use out of PC or Comet, or on progression when you/the tank is still learning positioning. I have found it very usefull for those situations, any other i tend to use PC or Comet depending on the fight.

[Komma]

I believe it is a very popular talent for Tectus. I don't feel it is worth it on fights with less targets.

[Petfood101]

But off late i seem to see a HUGE increase in number of top parses with kindling, maybe its just coincidence that everyone i checked had that, but i dont think so.

[Nisroc]

People used to undervalue Kindling as a talent, now people are starting to realise the potential. Also it is stronger now that we have more crit and more haste.

[Gnomecuddler]

Going with Kindling / IF / LB tonight on our first night Tectus Mythic. Looking forward to that after Brackenspore

[Maah]

i would recommend BW instead of LB on twins because of charge and whirlwind. you have to plan your LB's constantly.
in my opinion LB explodes when they are separated is ja dps loss compared to BW
so use BW when those dudes are together again

On brackenspore LB is greate... blue mushroom = haste from hell = ticks from hell ... if your lucky, you can line up your combustion too with this magic mushroom !!!

( sorry for my bad english )

[ZerotuL]

The more crit we have the more efficient this passive becomes. With hotfixes for 12 January the importance and epicness of this talent becomes overwhelming. PC is almost useless due to long cast time of fire spells. Meteor do get piece of pie from 12 January crit changes, but it receives no bonus from haste tweak introduced in same hotfix. I think Kindling will become the best tier 100 talent with crit over 50%

[Komma]

The more crit we have the more efficient this passive becomes. With hotfixes for 12 January the importance and epicness of this talent becomes overwhelming. PC is almost useless due to long cast time of fire spells. Meteor do get piece of pie from 12 January crit changes, but it receives no bonus from haste tweak introduced in same hotfix. I think Kindling will become the best tier 100 talent with crit over 50%

We usually prefer forum members doing their research and gathering data before making claims.

Even at ilvl 750, with crit well over that amount, Kindling is still the worst single target talent. The incineration hotfix doesn't change that.

[ZerotuL]

You rely on Simdps too much.Simdps i simply one case scenario simulator that mostly describes patchwerk fight style.
Simple logic:
Combustion cooldown(with glyph) 90 seconds=2 meteors
Best damage for both talents, selfbuffed(656 currently)
Combustion-80-100k solo target(hope everyone can do this), Meteor-120-140(if both are crit, with dot and ignite included)
With kindling talent you can spam combustion every minute(60-70 seconds)
Timeline without raid boosts
01:00
Combustion deals 100k
01:30
2 meteors crit for 140k(if both are crits of course)
02:00
Combustion deals another 100k->200k totally
03:00
Combustion totally deals 300k
2meteors crit and totally deal 280k damage

Mythic difficulty fights last more then 3 minutes.

Please mind that meteor itself do not receive any boost from troll racial or haste trinkets, but kindling do. Haste boosts provide more fireballs->ends up with more crits->more time saved->more combustions-more chances to get combustion when you need it with trinket proc or pot.

[Gnomecuddler]

Seeing some of your posts I am pretty sure I would rely a lot more on Komma's info then yours

[Figdan]

I used kindling tonight on mythic imperator.

some logs
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2Z ... e&fight=25" target="_blank

fire is actually really great on this fight.

[Komma]

You rely on Simdps too much.Simdps i simply one case scenario simulator that mostly describes patchwerk fight style.

Putting aside the fact that the simulator is much more sophisticated than whatever claims you've made, I'll take your argument seriously and explain why you're incorrect.

Simple logic:
Combustion cooldown(with glyph) 90 seconds=2 meteors
Best damage for both talents, selfbuffed(656 currently)
Combustion-80-100k solo target(hope everyone can do this), Meteor-120-140(if both are crit, with dot and ignite included)

So you're basing this off of your numbers, with an assumption that Combustion is static damage unrelated to Meteor (which is wrong), and assuming that Meteor both crit (<20% chance at your crit level). That Combustion damage is rather low for your quoted number, too.

With kindling talent you can spam combustion every minute(60-70 seconds)

Do you know that increased crit doesn't really increase the effect of kindling? This is because for every reduced second from Kindling, you have spells casted between Combustions. It 70 seconds is a plausible amount. 60 seconds is impossible simply due to Fireball's cast time. The assumption that "Kindling will continue to decrease the CD with more crit" is simply put, wrong.

Timeline without raid boosts
01:00
Combustion deals 100k
01:30
2 meteors crit for 140k(if both are crits of course)
02:00
Combustion deals another 100k->200k totally
03:00
Combustion totally deals 300k
2meteors crit and totally deal 280k damage

One could easily claim that the value of Meteor is "400K" and make an argument that you are wrong here. You haven't provided anything other than your made up numbers.

Please mind that meteor itself do not receive any boost from troll racial or haste trinkets, but kindling do. Haste boosts provide more fireballs->ends up with more crits->more time saved->more combustions-more chances to get combustion when you need it with trinket proc or pot.

Meteor doesn't need to scale from haste. The 400%+ spellpower coefficient with mastery scaling more than makes up for whatever you claim, and you haven't explained a single bit how Kindling "scales" better.

Long story short, you have done nothing but made numbers up that favor your argument. In Altered Time, we favor meaningful discussions with data to back up your points. Your evidence so far has been really weak, and will not convince any of our readers.

[Xenost]

Id consider kindling over Meteor if the target is likely to be moved, but most of the time i know when the target is moved and can time my CD accordingly.
Though i don't know how long the target should stay in the meteor for it to be better than kindling? (might need a simcraft on this?)

[Dutchmagoz]

Do you know that increased crit doesn't really increase the effect of kindling? This is because for every reduced second from Kindling, you have spells casted between Combustions.

Care to explain? I don't see how crit doesn't increase kindling's effectiveness. More crits = more pyros = more instant crits = faster combustion cooldown? Not to mention that simply having more crits = more combustion cooldown reduction.

"Spells casted between combustions" confuses me... It's not like the more you crit the less spells you cast, it's the exact opposite.

[Xenost]

I understood this as the fact there is a cap on the CD reduction you can get, due to the time you have to spend casting these spells giving you CD reduction.
Though Kindling effectiveness should follow a logarithmic function of Crit->CD reduction

[Dutchmagoz]

Sure there's a cap due to the length of the global cooldown, but it should still be an exponential cd decrease with crit rating. Since more crit decreases combustion in two different ways as I've posted: the normal increase of just critting more often AND getting more instants off which are faster than fireball casts.

Not argueing that kindling is better or worse than meteor, just argueing kindling seperately, since I see many people argueing that kindling doesn't scale with crit.

[icyhott]

As of right now, the only 2 fights I could see kindling being better on in highmaul is tectus and brackenspore. Last night was our first night on it, and I realized that with kindling by combustion is up for almost every blue shroom, which imo makes it better for that fight. I know u guys are debating scaling atm, so I look forward to seeing the results of this. Can't wait to get enough crit to play fire full time.

[Komma]

Care to explain? I don't see how crit doesn't increase kindling's effectiveness. More crits = more pyros = more instant crits = faster combustion cooldown? Not to mention that simply having more crits = more combustion cooldown reduction.

"Spells casted between combustions" confuses me... It's not like the more you crit the less spells you cast, it's the exact opposite.

The point I wanted to make is that Kindling is asymptotic. Between 0% and 50% crit, there is a large gain from Kindling, changing the CD of Combustion from 90 seconds to ~65 seconds. Going from 50% to 100%, the additional gain nearly does nothing - you still can't use Combustion more frequently than ~60 seconds. This is because as you shorten the duration between Combustions, each Combustion benefits from less cooldown reset events. Due to the crit buffs, we are already at the 50% mark.

The issue isn't "Kindling doesn't scale with Crit". The issue is "Kindling doesn't scale with crit nearly as well as most people believe". Consider this: if Inferno Blast had no CD and we could spam it every CD for to crit every GCD, we'd still be getting 60 second Combustions if we had 0% haste.

I understood this as the fact there is a cap on the CD reduction you can get, due to the time you have to spend casting these spells giving you CD reduction.
Though Kindling effectiveness should follow a logarithmic function of Crit->CD reduction

It's not even Logarithmic. It's asymptotic.

[Glitzerbling]

seeing as the difference between highest talent combo and highest kindling talent combo is 0.5%, id go with kindling, as it is the safest choice. aka a boss will never be moved out of a pyroblast/fireball, but he will get moved out of Meteor or PC. (and even if youre conserving cd to avoid that, you are losing out on potential dps)