Fire mage guide for 6.2 by Dutchmagoz!

[Puju]

The top ranked fire mage Shayande is playing with Copelands and PC. He pulls of huge numbers with ilvl 675. I think he cuts down ilvl in favor for crit. Any idea on this way to play? Because he's obviously having success with it.

[nuktuk]

On Tectus are you ever using IB solely to spread or just using it normally?

[brooksl7]

A few questions:

-When running the standard LB/IF/Met setup, I happen upon several absent post-meteor pyro's even when using DMF trinket. I feel as if a combust is ruined in this scenario - would I just combust anyway or wait for a higher ignite from pyro camping later?

-Is it advised to wait for the ICD of Sandman's before starting a combustion rotation?

[Valounette]

You wrote:

AoE rotation: (5+ targets stacked up)
- [With Glyph of Dragon's Breath glyphed]: Use dragon's breath on cooldown
- [With Living Bomb talented]: Apply living bomb on a target, then use Inferno Blast to spread it to surrounding targets.
- [With Blast Wave talented]: Cast blast wave on cooldown.
- Cast Flamestrike every time the ground effect drops off.
- Continue normal filler rotation

Why use Inferno Blast after Living Bomb...? Inferno blast only has to be used before Living Bomb will expire, or before one of the mobs dies. Using it this early means you miss out on spreading Ignite and Pyroblast DoT... right?

[Valounette]

Cleave rotation: (2-4 targets stacked up)
- Simply use your normal rotation, but make sure you spread combustion/living bomb/ignite/pyroblast as often as possible with Inferno Blast.

This vague description doesn't help people like me who hoped to come here for clarification on cleaving.. >_>

i.e. there is zero mention of whether it's better to keep holding onto Pyroblasts+heating up (an subsequently use far less inferno blasts), or if it's better to just unload pyroblast procs earlier so that Inferno blast can be used more frequently.

edit: more comments as I read through the guide:

Spread rotation: (multiple targets not next to eachother)
- Rotate your Pyroblast! procs on the different targets to keep the DoT up on as many targets as possible.
- [With Living Bomb talented]: Keep living bomb up on as many targets as possible.
- Continue your normal filler rotation on the highest priority target.

How can this be correct? If Living Bomb is a single target DPS loss, how can it not be a loss on individual, spread targets? This is illogical. Surely it's better to continue Fireball/Pyroblasting individual targets rather than using LB GCD's on them when they only hit 1 target each(since spread apart)?

- [With Meteor talented]: Firstly, make sure meteor and combustion are both off cooldown, then:
1. Cast Fireball until Heating Up procs.
2. Cast Inferno Blast to turn Heating Up into Pyroblast! proc. (never interrupt a cast for this)
3. Continue casting fireballs until you get a new Heating Up proc.
4. Cast Pyroblast when you got both Pyroblast! proc and Heating Up proc and there's a fireball in the air flying towards the boss.
5. Cast Meteor on the boss
6. Keep casting any extra pyroblast! procs you got left onto the boss (usually just one, sometimes two)
7. Make sure the last pyroblast landed on the boss, and cast Combustion, if there's any adds/cleave potential, make sure you spread combustion afterwards with inferno blast if there's any nearby targets.

Not convinced that this is better than using Meteor as follows:

-Fireball until heating up
-Inferno Blast for Pyroblast
-1x Fireball (hoping for a heating up)[but, can't spam Fireball until Heating up, since then we can't Meteor without consuming Hotstreak]
-[Instant cast spell (if available, i.e. Living Bomb, Blast Wave] -> Fireball (weaving in an instant cast let's us check if the previous Fireball was a Heating up or not. If it wasn't, the instant cast GCD gives a second chance of a Heating up proc)
-Meteor
-Fireball -> Pyroblast+ further Pyroblast procs
-Combust


Your listed method has the advantage of always having a Pyro+Heating up proc stacked. But then casting Fireball+Pyro>Meteor seems very clunky. It creates a whole 3 second window after the first Fireball+Pyroblast. This means that if there wasn't a follow up Pyro to use after Meteor, everything falls apart. And this isn't uncommon for me at 674 ilvl.

At least using the Meteor first and then unloading Fireball+Pyro+ further Pyro's has the burst more consistently together for more reliable Combusts. Yours only seems better on good RNG? But this is just feels... won't believe either way unless seeing simulations. (edit, saw Komma mentioned this on page 1 replies. Still would like to see sims D:). Though if you really have a 95% chance to get that Pyro proc then it sounds more reliable.

But still another question: Meteor, 3seconds until it lands. You say to pretty much Combust after the first Pyroblast(after Meteor) has hit the boss.

Meteor - 1.5s GCD. Pyroblast - 1.5s GCD (but less due to haste). You mentioned that your method doesn't require stopping casting a Fireball. But effectively, surely it's the same? There is a minimum 3seconds to wait before the Meteor hits, and when taking Haste into account, you would be able to queue a second spell after the GCD. But you don't, since having to wait for the Pyro to land. Effectively still wasting GCD time/cancelling a cast.

Compared to the other method of using Meteor, this isn't the case:

-Pyroblast proc(preferably with Heating up, Fireball(s) casted beforehand to try maximise the chance while going into Meteor GCD)
-Meteor(1.5s GCD)
-Fireball>Pyroblast(s) - (Pyroblast always hits the target within 0.75s flying, and Meteor has already hit, so no GCD time is wasted while waiting for a Pyroblast to hit and use Combust

[TLTeo]

You don't need to sit there casting nothing while you wait for Pyro/Meteor to land. You can queue fireballs and use Combustion as soon as they are done casting, which will result in the fireball hitting the target after your combustion is up.

[Valounette]

You don't need to sit there casting nothing while you wait for Pyro/Meteor to land. You can queue fireballs and use Combustion as soon as they are done casting, which will result in the fireball hitting the target after your combustion is up.

So the Ignite value won't drop in the whole 2 seconds of a Fireball cast?

Unsure if Ignite damage slowly drops, or simply changes after each spell hit. If the latter then your comment makes sense to me

[Dutchmagoz]

How can this be correct? If Living Bomb is a single target DPS loss, how can it not be a loss on individual, spread targets? This is illogical. Surely it's better to continue Fireball/Pyroblasting individual targets rather than using LB GCD's on them when they only hit 1 target each(since spread apart)?

Living bomb is not a single target DPS loss anymore.

-Fireball until heating up
-Inferno Blast for Pyroblast
-1x Fireball (hoping for a heating up)[but, can't spam Fireball until Heating up, since then we can't Meteor without consuming Hotstreak]
-[Instant cast spell (if available, i.e. Living Bomb, Blast Wave] -> Fireball (weaving in an instant cast let's us check if the previous Fireball was a Heating up or not. If it wasn't, the instant cast GCD gives a second chance of a Heating up proc)
-Meteor
-Fireball -> Pyroblast+ further Pyroblast procs
-Combust

Using an instant spell that doesn't increase ignite followed by a spell that does increase ignite is an ignite drop due to how ignite works. The way you've described also doesn't guarantee HS+HU for the chain, actually increasing the RNG.

Fireball+Pyro>Meteor seems very clunky.

I realize this is subjective, but I actually find it very smooth. Here's a video of me doing it: http://www.twitch.tv/dutchmagoz/c/5959250" target="_blank

This means that if there wasn't a follow up Pyro to use after Meteor, everything falls apart. And this isn't uncommon for me at 674 ilvl.

This is the same odds as using the pyros after meteor. However, using fireball first after meteor means you won't get the big ignite spike from landing meteor + pyro in the same ignite tick window.

Also, the actual chance of the happening.. Let's assume 35% character sheet crit chance: (that's very low)

- pyroblast crit chance: 35% * 1.3 = 45.5%
- fireball crit chance: 35% + at least 10% crit due to enhanced pyrotechnics, usually more, but worst case = 45% * 1.3 = 58.5%

So there's two individual chances of 45.5% and 58.5% of which only one needs to occur for a second pyroblast, chances of that happening are:
1 - ((1-0.455) * (1-0.585)) * 100 = 77.3835% chance.

This is assuming a very low crit chance, only one stack of enhanced pyrotechnics, and no dmf nor weapon proc, and even then it will happen more than 3 out of 4 times.

Getting even just a single weapon proc increases your odds by a lot already. Weapon proc is ~5.2% extra crit chance, making the total chance of it happening:
(35+5.2)*1.3 = 52.26
(45+5.2) *1.3 = 65.26
1 ((1-0.5226) * (1-0.6526)) * 100 = 83.42% chance.

IMO, those are some really good odds for someone with very low crit gear. (5 out of 6 times)

Add in DMF and you get some insane odds (dmf 3/3 is ~19.3% crit after the bonuses we get):
(35+5.2+19.3)*1.3 = 77.35%
(45+5.2+19.3) *1.3 = 90.35%
1 ((1-0.7735) * (1-0.9035)) * 100 = 97.81% chance.

That's a 98% chance with only 35% crit from gear and 3/3DMF proc (which always procs on your opener) to get that pyroblast.

Effectively still wasting GCD time/cancelling a cast.

In the case where it does happen, you can fill up the waiting time with an instant + fireball. Just make sure you use combustion before the fireball lands so ignite doesn't drop.

[Dutchmagoz]

You don't need to sit there casting nothing while you wait for Pyro/Meteor to land. You can queue fireballs and use Combustion as soon as they are done casting, which will result in the fireball hitting the target after your combustion is up.

So the Ignite value won't drop in the whole 2 seconds of a Fireball cast?

Unsure if Ignite damage slowly drops, or simply changes after each spell hit. If the latter then your comment makes sense to me

Didn't see this reply before I replied:

Ignite only drops when you re-apply ignite. (or if it times out, obviously)

If you're curious, this is how ignite works:

- Whenever a spell lands, it takes your mastery % of that spell, and turns it into a total ignite pool. Ignite ticks every second over 5 seconds, so your ignite tick value becomes 1/5th of that. Whenever ignite ticks, the total value drops, but the tick value remains the same.
- If you already had ignite on the target when a new spell applies, ignite gets refreshed to 6 seconds, and a new total ignite pool gets calculated, and then redistributed over 6 ticks.

Example (let's assume 30% mastery, completely arbitrary number):

- a spell lands for 50k, 30% of the 50k, 15k, becomes the ignite pool. Ignite starts as 5 seconds, so total ignite = 15k, with 15/5 = 3k ticks.
- a new spell lands for 50k, 30% of the 50k, 15k, is added to the ignite pool. Ignite gets refreshed to 6 seconds, total pool = 30k over 6 seconds, so 30/6 = 5k ticks
- ignite ticks. The total pool now becomes 25k over 5 seconds, so still on 5k ticks
- a new spell lands for 30k, 30% of 30k, 9k, gets added to the ignite pool. Ignite pool now gets refreshed to 6 seconds with a 25k+9k ignite pool, for a total of 34k over 6 seconds, = 5.67k ignite ticks.

[Dutchmagoz]

Cleave rotation: (2-4 targets stacked up)
- Simply use your normal rotation, but make sure you spread combustion/living bomb/ignite/pyroblast as often as possible with Inferno Blast.

This vague description doesn't help people like me who hoped to come here for clarification on cleaving.. >_>

i.e. there is zero mention of whether it's better to keep holding onto Pyroblasts+heating up (an subsequently use far less inferno blasts), or if it's better to just unload pyroblast procs earlier so that Inferno blast can be used more

You're right, it's definitely lacking some details. I'll make a more detailed explanation about it hopefully tonight or otherwise tomorrow. Tldr when IB is up and you got a pyro, just use the pyro so you can start fishing for HU to IB with. Of course there's exceptions, and there's a bit more to it, and I'll put that in the guide hopefully tonight or tomorrow.

[Valounette]

Living bomb is not a single target DPS loss anymore.

Ah thanks

Using an instant spell that doesn't increase ignite followed by a spell that does increase ignite is an ignite drop due to how ignite works. The way you've described also doesn't guarantee HS+HU for the chain, actually increasing the RNG.

The instant cast spell before all of the rest is irrelevant to the Combustion, I would think? Like, it's before the Fireball+Pyro(+likely pyro proc)+Meteor casts. The instant cast is just using any available instants to allow another Fireball GCD to fish for a higher chance of Hot Streak. i.e. Komma's described method, but a slightly higher chance to ensure both HU+Pyro procs before bursting.

[Dutchmagoz]

Living bomb is not a single target DPS loss anymore.

Ah thanks

Using an instant spell that doesn't increase ignite followed by a spell that does increase ignite is an ignite drop due to how ignite works. The way you've described also doesn't guarantee HS+HU for the chain, actually increasing the RNG.

The instant cast spell before all of the rest is irrelevant to the Combustion, I would think? Like, it's before the Fireball+Pyro(+likely pyro proc)+Meteor casts. The instant cast is just using any available instants to allow another Fireball GCD to fish for a higher chance of Hot Streak. i.e. Komma's described method, but a slightly higher chance to ensure both HU+Pyro procs before bursting.

I see, I misunderstood then. That way's best case scenario is still only equal to my "always" scenario though? You still don't guarantee HS+HU and the only thing you gain is less "clunkyness"? (if you consider using meteor in the middle of pyros clunky)

[Darkwraith01]

Dutch, do you happen to have a quick boss-by-boss talent selection tip for Fire?

Also, if you happen to have some positioning hints for Twins, that would be very helpful (I find myself runing away from fire a lot).
FYI - my guild tanks them both by the room entrance.

[Chev]

Here is a great video on how to avoid the fire and keep movement to a minimum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5gYvlmNyZc" target="_blank

[Darkwraith01]

Here is a great video on how to avoid the fire and keep movement to a minimum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5gYvlmNyZc" target="_blank

AWESOME! Thanks man!

[Petfood101]

Do i hold second combustion and 3rd meteor for DMF trinket proc? Or just use it on cooldown? Or do i hold combustion till i get the DMF proc but use meteor on cooldown?? I tried a few times but nothing to actually let me know which way to lean.

ANd when u say LB is no longer a dps loss on single target, you mean with gear level or was there some hotfix i missed? :O

[Wilderness]

ANd when u say LB is no longer a dps loss on single target, you mean with gear level or was there some hotfix i missed? :O

I'm curious about this as well - possibly it was the haste changes?

[Dutchmagoz]

Do i hold second combustion and 3rd meteor for DMF trinket proc? Or just use it on cooldown? Or do i hold combustion till i get the DMF proc but use meteor on cooldown?? I tried a few times but nothing to actually let me know which way to lean.

ANd when u say LB is no longer a dps loss on single target, you mean with gear level or was there some hotfix i missed? :O

First part, depends on the fight length. If you can use combustion with DMF without giving up more than 1/4 combustions, it's worth it, otherwise it's not. Otherwise use on cooldown. (same for meteor)

LB is very iffy on when it's a DPS loss and when it's not. Generally somewhere around 680-685 ilvl is when it becomes a DPS loss again. If you're unsure, either sim it for your own gear, or opt out of using it on single target.

[DJG]

Single target: int > spellpower > crit > mastery > haste > multistrike > versatility
Single target with 4pc t17: int > spellpower > mastery > crit > haste > multistrike > versatility

It seems, to my Simc results, that if you are below a certain crit rating, crit will value higher even with t17 4pc.
About 1650 crit (without incineration) for me, just swaped arround some gems for testing.

gear was Highmaul Mythic Gear (Troll) with Head, Shoulders, Legs and Hands Heroic Set.

[TLTeo]

For some gear sets crit is -slightly- higher than mastery on single target, but it's extremely close, so i think going mastery is still worth it