Fire mage guide for 6.2 by Dutchmagoz!

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Dutchmagoz
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Re: Fire mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [updated for

Unread postby Dutchmagoz Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:24 pm

For fights like Darmac and Thogar we should go crit over mastery right? It's not a cleave fight for the most part, it's like single target with waves of adds.

I have Oregorger hands and Kromog's shoulder, not sure which one to use for Thogar.
Basically whenever there's one higher priority target, crit beats mastery, on that target.

Mastery is superior overall DPS, but lower DPS on the priority target.
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Re: Fire mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [updated for

Unread postby gameorg Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:10 pm

I wonder whats the general opening strategy is for you guys? Do you guys fish for double crit from FB so you are able do 2P Trick, no matter how long it takes? With double Crit Trinket Proc we have around 20 sec of 45-50% - i guess this is high enough to dont use IB?
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Re: Fire mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [updated for

Unread postby swoon Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:57 pm

You need crit trinket and some luck to not use IB on pull, I've had back to back attempts where I lose heating up from lack of crits and the pull is dead.
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Re: Fire mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [updated for

Unread postby TLTeo Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:10 pm

Why would you need to not use IB on pull? By the time you have gotten Pyro, casted PC and done your pyro chain on it both your IB charges should be off cooldown or close to it.
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Re: Fire mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [updated for

Unread postby gameorg Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:19 pm

Why would you need to not use IB on pull? By the time you have gotten Pyro, casted PC and done your pyro chain on it both your IB charges should be off cooldown or close to it.
With PC yes. Without, you most likely not have Double IB ready by the time you want to press Combustion. Going by this method, i realize that probably not casting anything for 1-2 Sec would be more DPS gain than starting your pyro chain at the wrong time. But since i just realized that i have about 65-70% crit (with trinket), i will just go for the fireball spam.
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Re: Fire mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [updated for

Unread postby drunkencastr Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:59 pm

How much crit is a good ammount to start pulling decent numbers. I have only been playing a mage for 2 months and i enjoy it. I like fire.. couldn't get the hang of the others... I currently have 1440 crit. I have been struggling at 15k dps at 648 ilvl and i dont know what i am doing wrong. on aoe fights i do well but single target, i have been asked to learn a different spec if i want to continue with normal progression raiding and i dont want to switch out of fire.. I dont know if my stats are just off or what but i think i have been following the rotation well enough that i should have gotten better numbers

Also, i have been seeing a lot of the BiS gear as haste/mastery.... why is that and not going for crit.. is it just aoe?
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Re: Fire mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [updated for

Unread postby Dutchmagoz Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:28 pm

How much crit is a good ammount to start pulling decent numbers. I have only been playing a mage for 2 months and i enjoy it. I like fire.. couldn't get the hang of the others... I currently have 1440 crit. I have been struggling at 15k dps at 648 ilvl and i dont know what i am doing wrong. on aoe fights i do well but single target, i have been asked to learn a different spec if i want to continue with normal progression raiding and i dont want to switch out of fire.. I dont know if my stats are just off or what but i think i have been following the rotation well enough that i should have gotten better numbers

Also, i have been seeing a lot of the BiS gear as haste/mastery.... why is that and not going for crit.. is it just aoe?
There's no one BiS set for fire mages for all situations.

- For single target, you want as much crit as possible.
- For AoE you want as much mastery as possible with a decent amount of crit. I personally like being around 800-1k crit while using a crit proc trinket. (oregorgor)

So depending on what you want to focus on, you'll want to gear for either mastery with crit as second stat, or crit as main stat and mastery as second stat. If you play fire on all bosses, prioritize crit over mastery, since even on AoE fights, crit is quite strong and it's better DPS on the main target you're nuking.

About a "minimum" crit level for fire: there isn't one, just the more the better. And you'll really want to get 4pc ASAP, since that's probably the major thing holding DPS back.
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Re: Fire mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [updated for

Unread postby TheHeretic91 Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:38 pm

I'm confused regarding the right way to do the opener when you have PC and the 2pc and 4pc bonus.

Do you still wait until you have a Pyroblast! proc and heating up before casting PC? If I do that and the 4pc bonus procs, then I have to waste a GCD casting PC and one instant Pyro goes to waste.

But if I start casting into PC right away, then I have to get 2 Fireball crits in a row, since I can't use IB to get a Pyroblast proc because then I wouldn't be able to pull off the 2pc trick in time.

What's the right way to do it? I apologize if the answer to this is obvious, but I'm honestly confused.
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Re: Fire mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [updated for

Unread postby Dutchmagoz Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:35 pm

I'm confused regarding the right way to do the opener when you have PC and the 2pc and 4pc bonus.

Do you still wait until you have a Pyroblast! proc and heating up before casting PC? If I do that and the 4pc bonus procs, then I have to waste a GCD casting PC and one instant Pyro goes to waste.

But if I start casting into PC right away, then I have to get 2 Fireball crits in a row, since I can't use IB to get a Pyroblast proc because then I wouldn't be able to pull off the 2pc trick in time.

What's the right way to do it? I apologize if the answer to this is obvious, but I'm honestly confused.
You want to get a pyro! proc first. If this proc also procs 4pc, place PC and pyro it followed by inferno blast. If it doesn't proc 4pc, cast one more fireball, place PC -> fireball it until you got a fireball in the air +pyroblast! proc + heating up, and then do the usual. Don't continue casting fireballs if there's less than 6 seconds left of PC.
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Re: Fire mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [updated for

Unread postby Majno Sat May 30, 2015 8:48 pm

Hello Dutchmagoz, will you update this guide for 6.2?
Will fire be better then arcane and then the buffed frost?
Thanks in advance!
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Re: Fire mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [updated for

Unread postby Dutchmagoz Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:59 pm

Hello Dutchmagoz, will you update this guide for 6.2?
Will fire be better then arcane and then the buffed frost?
Thanks in advance!
I am updating this guide for 6.2 this weekend.

Fire won't beat arcane on single target, but will still rock multi target arcane. I'm not 100% confident in if it will beat frost single target. Will win aoe/cleave though.
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Re: Fire mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [updated for

Unread postby Osomo Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:46 pm

Hello Dutchmagoz, will you update this guide for 6.2?
Will fire be better then arcane and then the buffed frost?
Thanks in advance!
I am updating this guide for 6.2 this weekend.

Fire won't beat arcane on single target, but will still rock multi target arcane. I'm not 100% confident in if it will beat frost single target. Will win aoe/cleave though.
So fire/arcane combo will still be this best combo, both stat, and dps wise then?
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Re: Fire mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [updated for

Unread postby matchbox Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:29 pm

No, I believe that frost/arcane would be vastly superior.
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Re: Fire mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [updated for

Unread postby Neesai Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:08 pm

No, I believe that frost/arcane would be vastly superior.
Where do you get that from? Arcane is top single target, while fire is best for multi-target fights.
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Re: Fire mage guide for 6.2 by Dutchmagoz!

Unread postby Dutchmagoz Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:46 pm

Updated for 6.2!
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Re: Fire mage guide for raiding by Dutchmagoz! [updated for

Unread postby Dizzeeyooo Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:19 pm

No, I believe that frost/arcane would be vastly superior.
Where do you get that from? Arcane is top single target, while fire is best for multi-target fights.
there is a large, frost mage sized hole in-between arcane vs single target, and fire vs 4+ targets :)
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Re: Fire mage guide for 6.2 by Dutchmagoz!

Unread postby jeiden Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:48 am

Instead of pyroblast camping, you just use inferno blast whenever you get a heating up, and always use pyroblasts when your inferno blasts are within 2 seconds off coming off cooldown. If your pyroblast crits, you can immediately inferno blast to turn it into a new pyroblast, while spreading all your dots (including a high ignite) at the same time.
So you mean to use Ib even if i have no heating up proc? can we make this only every 15 seconds (about the duration of the dot ) or everytime?
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Re: Fire mage guide for 6.2 by Dutchmagoz!

Unread postby Dutchmagoz Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:30 am

Instead of pyroblast camping, you just use inferno blast whenever you get a heating up, and always use pyroblasts when your inferno blasts are within 2 seconds off coming off cooldown. If your pyroblast crits, you can immediately inferno blast to turn it into a new pyroblast, while spreading all your dots (including a high ignite) at the same time.
So you mean to use Ib even if i have no heating up proc? can we make this only every 15 seconds (about the duration of the dot ) or everytime?
You still only use IB with heating up. You just also pyroblast without it if inferno blast is (almost) ready.
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Re: Fire mage guide for 6.2 by Dutchmagoz!

Unread postby Zrog Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:21 pm

Updated for 6.2!
Dutch - I don't suppose you'd be willing to put in a "summary of 6.2 changes and how it affects fire" in your guide? I'm not familiar enough with it to pick out the subtle changes.

I'm also really surprised that Frost will become a viable high-tier raid spec... but if it's true that there's a "sweet spot" for Frost, I still think that Arcane+Fire will be a better spec combo than Frost+something, unless the raid mechanics change drastically for the new instance.

I DID like Frost, though... it was a great high-movement spec, and very defensive-oriented for the squishy mage.

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Re: Fire mage guide for 6.2 by Dutchmagoz!

Unread postby Naedrim Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:02 pm

Great update! I had a couple questions about the changes to the guide and fire in general going into 6.2.

Is Sandman's Pouch so highly rated just because these sims are for single target? For those of us not switching our AoE spec to Frost for the moment, would we be better off using a Goren's and a trinket from HFC, or should we grab a Sandman's Pouch?

Would we ideally use both a Goren's and a Sandman's Pouch or are two crit trinkets overkill?

At the end of your guide, you say that crit is now better than mastery in all cases. It was widely said that mastery was better than crit for AoE in 6.1. Did losing our tier bonus switch this back?

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