Talents & Glyphs for N/H BRF

[Darkwraith01]

Hey guys,

I didn't really find a good list of talent/glyph suggestions for BRF (Normal and Heroic), so I decided to start a thread. Hope all you great mages can contribute somehow.

So far, for the bosses I have downed/tried, this is what feels best for me (100% feeling, no simming here):

- Gruul (BW/RoP/Meteor)
- Oregorger (BW/IF/Meteor)
- Hans and Franz (LB/RoP/Meteor)
- Blast Furnace (LB/IF/Kindling - did not get to phase 3)
- Flamebender (BW/IF/Meteor)
- Beastlord (BW/RoP/Meteor)
- Operator Thogar (BW/IF/Kindling)

Obs: this is without any of the Tier pieces and at around 666 ilvl

[Urmagerd]

I would change a few things myself.

Hans & Frans - Not sure if LB is worth cause they're not always together, for example when one of them jumps up (he becomes untargetable aswell?)

Beastlord - LB over BW. RoP is pretty risky, it sometimes is hard to see the spears as the marking on the ground is the sameish colour and if you're unlucky you're gonna have to recast it alot, IF might be better. Also going Kindling and unglyphing Combustion is really strong on this fight.

Operator Thogar - LB felt way better than BW on this fight just because of how many adds there are. Unglyphing Combustion on this fight is really good aswell. you can combust the boss at the start and you'll have it back for the first set of adds and should have it back for every other set of adds aswell.

[TLTeo]

I don't understand why you would want to unglyph combustion in any situation, since it always leads to either identical or less uptime, while making your initial combustion weaker. On Darmac specifically, the adds tend to die so fast combustion doesn't even have time for many ticks, the dps you gain is mostly spreading LB to them and then causing them to explode, damaging the boss.

[Lich]

I feel like there couldn't be a more perfect fight for LB than Beastlord...

[Darkwraith01]

I feel like there couldn't be a more perfect fight for LB than Beastlord...

Blast Furnace?

[Becks]

I feel like there couldn't be a more perfect fight for LB than Beastlord...

Blast Furnace?

False. 50% dmg done to Slag Elementals is pure waste. You want maximum burst on the Operators and Elementalist instead of beeing a scumbag dps.

[ting92]

the living bombs explode on the elementalist aswell if your raid stacks adds.

[Synkronized]

I don't understand why you would want to unglyph combustion in any situation, since it always leads to either identical or less uptime, while making your initial combustion weaker. On Darmac specifically, the adds tend to die so fast combustion doesn't even have time for many ticks, the dps you gain is mostly spreading LB to them and then causing them to explode, damaging the boss.

I'd beg to differ.

For Darmac, if you pre load a Combustion + LB then Inferno Blast it to the beast packs, it's a major increase in output. Even a mere 5 sec Combustion time on Darmac's beast packs means you're actually getting around 30 sec total for beasts + 10 sec for Darmac of Combustion "uptime". And with Kindling, you'll have Combustion up almost every time for the packs.

Operator Thogar's the same. With Kindling + Combustion unglyphed, you'll have one for every add phase. The small adds live just long enough to make the unglyphed Combustion insanely strong.

Double duration Combustion for non bursty aoe fights is generally nice, but when you get a window to let Combustion tick on +6 targets each cast, it changes the dynamic considerably.

[TLTeo]

That also strongly depends on
a) wether you can always build a strong combustion (the major reason why glyph is stronger is that by casting less combustion, they are much more likely to coincide with a higher ignite)
b) your raid composition (in my raid the adds stay alive ~5-6 seconds, just enough to get a LB explosion off)
c) wether you care more about your own overall damage than useful (boss) damage. Let's be honest, none ever wipes because the adds don't die quickly enough. Spreading LB results in boss damage, which is what makes fire so powerful on these cleave-heavy fights, spreading Combustion doesn't. Going by your logic we should also unglyph and spread combustion on Blast Furnace, casting it as often as possible, instead of saving it for the elementalists.

[dreamlogic]

i dont know how you can go on Hans and Franz with rop when you need to move so much this fight...
aswell for furance i will suggest to go for most bosses IF the only bosses i can see rop going decent is kormog and grull

for single target bosses i would suggest to go with pc instand of meteor would do better
every cleave fights Operator Thogar,Beast etc... i would suggest to go with LB and for 2targets fights like hans and franz BW
other then that ppl in this post already got alot things covered

[Synkronized]

That also strongly depends on
a) wether you can always build a strong combustion (the major reason why glyph is stronger is that by casting less combustion, they are much more likely to coincide with a higher ignite)
b) your raid composition (in my raid the adds stay alive ~5-6 seconds, just enough to get a LB explosion off)
c) wether you care more about your own overall damage than useful (boss) damage. Let's be honest, none ever wipes because the adds don't die quickly enough. Spreading LB results in boss damage, which is what makes fire so powerful on these cleave-heavy fights, spreading Combustion doesn't. Going by your logic we should also unglyph and spread combustion on Blast Furnace, casting it as often as possible, instead of saving it for the elementalists.

Interesting points, but I will say:
a) Once you start getting a decent amount of Crit gear gear like ~40% raid buffs, getting decent Combustions is more reliable.
b) 5-6 sec is still enough time to let Combustion do a lot of damage. It's best to hit your Combustion just before they get in range for spreading it.
c) If the boss is on farm/you're not having problems with the single target damage, there's no issue. Second, the beasts have a stacking damage buff, depending on the raid comp, you'll need to burn them asap anyways. It's not wrong to maximise damage on them.

Going by your logic Mage build decisions are binding, ironclad and can't be adapted based on the circumstances of a fight and your raid. Incidentally, I didn't mention Blast Furnace because Elementalists should be given a priority.

[TLTeo]

i dont know how you can go on Hans and Franz with rop when you need to move so much this fight...

You can stay on the metal thingies between the moving belts and just move a couple steps away from the bad things, you don't need to be running around at all

[Wilderness]

Interesting points, but I will say:
a) Once you start getting a decent amount of Crit gear gear like ~40% raid buffs, getting decent Combustions is more reliable.
b) 5-6 sec is still enough time to let Combustion do a lot of damage. It's best to hit your Combustion just before they get in range for spreading it.
c) If the boss is on farm/you're not having problems with the single target damage, there's no issue. Second, the beasts have a stacking damage buff, depending on the raid comp, you'll need to burn them asap anyways. It's not wrong to maximise damage on them.

Going by your logic Mage build decisions are binding, ironclad and can't be adapted based on the circumstances of a fight and your raid. Incidentally, I didn't mention Blast Furnace because Elementalists should be given a priority.

Unglyphing isn't the best way to do damage to the adds though, and ultimately using it that often ensures that your overall combustion damage will be weaker. 40% crit or not, you can't reliably get good combustions that often, particularly since you'd be trying to time it perfectly to line up with each spawn & when they are able to be spread to, and the adds die quickly. Double LB explosions will easily do more damage than combustion, and if you are constantly trying to build a combustion, you're not going to be able to time those well too. Look at the top fire parses on normal and heroic – they are doing 12-13 million to the adds, at least double what they do to Beastlord, so they are clearly trying to pad as much as possible. Not one log that I looked at on either difficulty unglyphed combustion for Beastlord. Only 1 (#6 heroic parse) unglyphed on Thogar. All of them had crazy LB damage, because that’s where the real AoE burst of Fire is right now, not in spreading combustion to short-lived adds.

You could unglyph on Blast Furnace if your raid needed enough AoE that you had to be fire, but still needed single-target focus on elementalists, since having it up for each one would give you higher damage to them than having it glyphed. You’d do worse in the last phase than glyphing, but you could at least make the argument although in most cases on that fight either glyphing as fire or playing arcane would be the best option for most raid comps.

[TLTeo]

I find that on BF Kindling works well enough to have Combustion up on every Elementalist, so even there i don't think it's that useful to unglyph.

[Synkronized]

[quote="Wilderness"]
The top Fire parses have considerable add damage through Combustion, not just LB. Look at where the damage spikes the highest and it's always with Combustion damage . Also with 2pc it isn't hard to get a decent Combustion on adds . You get a Heating up proc and you dump 1 of your 2 Inferno Blasts on it. FB + Pyro into Combust. Dump the LB that was ticking down w/ the Combustion then load another LB w/ IB. Double LB is more effective than just Combustion. But getting the Double LB + Combust on adds does improve damage.

As for going unglyphed? Maybe it is better considering how chaotic things are. I'm not yet convinced though.