[7.1.5] Fire mage guide for Legion, by Rinoa

[durrtygoodz]

I'm trying to look through the thread as much as I can but I just got back to mage like yesterday so, someone give it to me in brief, what's the rules about casting cinderstorm? I'm seeing some good parses coming out with people casting it 50-75% less than the max casts they could have gotten, but they have good output so wanting to know the exact logic of it.

I came 95th+ percentile on most fights as Kindling but unless 1 extra use comes out of combustion it's basically worthless right.

[Pkm]

I'm trying to look through the thread as much as I can but I just got back to mage like yesterday so, someone give it to me in brief, what's the rules about casting cinderstorm? I'm seeing some good parses coming out with people casting it 50-75% less than the max casts they could have gotten, but they have good output so wanting to know the exact logic of it.

I came 95th+ percentile on most fights as Kindling but unless 1 extra use comes out of combustion it's basically worthless right.

Well dps wise yeah it's bad if you can't get extra combustion from kindling. But I feel for Mythic there might be situations where having combustion up sooner could be beneficial to the raid itself where maybe a priority add comes in and needs to be nuked ASAP or beating an soft enrage or normal enrage timer.

[Xenost]

There are a lot of times where CiS is up and I don't cast it, the major offender is RoP, if I know casting CiS would make me cast 1 less PB during RoP I won't cast it. RoP comprises at least 25% of your fight time.

The second offender is range, if for some reason I'm at a range where I know only around half the cinders will hit I won't bother casting it.

[nemesix]

replace 840 right

[300kg]

replace 840 right

Yes.
From Frosted's thread:

From the above two graphs, I suggest the following rule of thumb for single target DPS in Pre-raid gear:

Crit Damage - Better at any item level increase
Fireball Cast Time - Better at any item level increase
Ignite Damage - Better at any item level increase
Fire Blast Damage - Better at A 10 item level increase, Equal at +5 Item levels
Fire Ball Damage - Better at 10 or more item levels above a Pyroblast relic
Cauterizing Blink Relic - Better at 15 or more item levels above a Pyroblast relic
Flame Strike Damage - Better at 15 or more item levels above a Pyroblast relic
Molten Armor Relic - Better at 15 or more item levels above a Pyroblast relic

[Psycee]

Hey guys.

Have you seen the new simcraft? What are you guys thinking about Fire? At this point it seems that we need to change to arcane again .

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19P.html" target="_blank

[Frantik]

That's the nt spam we are discussing in the other thread in the arcane forum..

[Kintoun]

Hey guys.

Have you seen the new simcraft? What are you guys thinking about Fire? At this point it seems that we need to change to arcane again .

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19P.html" target="_blank

TLDR; Don't consider Arcane until it is known if NT spam will or will not get nerfed. Right now it is assumed this is not intended.

[Psycee]

I am not talking about NT, i mean that every mage spec seems to be stronger

[Curnivore]

That URL shows T19P. T19P is 840 5man gear. On T19H fire appears to be better.

Komma appears to believe fire scales up faster than arcane.

There are diminishing returns on higher stats on arcane.

[Unreal]

The Gear range on t19p is between 842 and 844. Got a link to the t19h you are talking about?

[Xenost]

Arcane isn't as mobile as fire too since the main DD spell is a channel.

[Kintoun]

I am not talking about NT, i mean that every mage spec seems to be stronger

Data to prove this?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/1 ... class=Mage" target="_blank
Heroic Patchwerk-like fight. Shows fire top with a few Arcane (NT spammers)

[Potaetoe]

I am not talking about NT, i mean that every mage spec seems to be stronger

Data to prove this?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/1 ... class=Mage" target="_blank
Heroic Patchwerk-like fight. Shows fire top with a few Arcane (NT spammers)

NT Spam builds were destroyed with today's hot fix. They won't be as insane anymore. Just like Arms Warrior won't be top of those same meters.

[aadaxx]

Hi, quick question for you guys. Basically, I need to know which ring is better stats wise.

835 ring = 1737 crit 952 stam
865 ring = 1371 crit 1258 stam 721 vers

is the overall loss of crit not worth it? I assume the 835 is still better?

[Xenost]

The 865 is better.

You lose 366 crit to gain 721 vers, you can sim to get your stat weights but I'm pretty sure there are no case were crit is 2 times better than vers.

Edit : the stat budget is wrong with your 865 ring, did you count an eventual socket within it?

[aadaxx]

Yeah, the socket is included in the weighted calculations I listed Xenost

[TheHeretic91]

Hey.

I feel like I've got the Fire priority down pretty decently now, but one thing is still not clear to me: outside of Combustion, how does RoP affect your priority when it's active? Does it change the rotation at all? Some say it's best to use back to back Fireblasts and Phoenix Flames casts to fit as many Pyros as possible into the RoP window, others say you just keep using your standard rotation.

Also, is Cinderstorm used during RoP?

If anyone could help me out, I would be really grateful.

Thanks.

[Xenost]

RoP phase is highly dependent on how many FB and PF you have, and yeah using PF->FB is fine during RoP, you want to avoid casting if it may make you lose one PB.

Example you have 2 FB and 1 PF, in best case scenario you should count 1 GCD per FB and 2 per PF, so here you have 4GCD taken during RoP, if you enter RoP with hot streak you have 5GCD, just enough to fit one Fireball, so your RoP sequence may look like that :
RoP-> Fireball->PB->FB(or not if both crit)->PB->PF->PB->FB->PB assuming all PB crit, if 1 PB doesn't crit you have 1 more GCD :
assuming no crit : RoP->Fireball->PB->PF->FB->Fireball->PB (1GCD left with nothing :s)

All in all you should adapt so you are always able to fit the maximum PB during RoP.

As for CiS uses, it's really hard to tell without Simming, but going by the damage per execute time I'd say if you're sure to land the 6 cinders it's worth casting CiS if you don't lose an assured PB, if you lose an hypothetical PB (when I say Hypothetical it means a PB you get only if you crit, assured would mean you already have Hot streak or PF->FB) it's fine because CiS has almost 80% dmg per execute time of PB.

[Artenuis]

In the opener (and other Combustion windows): Isn't it better to use Scorch in place of Phoenix's Flames (after the first cast)? Scorch effectively works as an instant as the cast time is the same as the GCD, meaning that one doesn't lose any Pyro casts during Combustion, but overall gains more Pyro casts by not wasting time casting a spell (PF) during Combustion that will crit anyway. Or is the Ignite damage lost by not casting two PFs during Combustion greater than the damage gained by more overall Pyro casts?