[7.1.5] Fire mage guide for Legion, by Rinoa

[illwil]

It's a dps gain on 2 targets and more, but you may want to use pyroblast if you know the tank is about to move the boss.

But yeah basicaly if you know the boss(es) is gonna stay in place and alive for the next 8s, replace everyone of your PB with FS (on 2+ targets).

besides how long they live for, do you know how many targets its best to use LB for? This is mostly geared towards M+. I'd say generally LB is better but with fortified that changes things a bit.

[Food]

Any views on which 4 out of the 6 tier pieces should be our priority?

[Magikreaper]

It seems chest, back, hand and legs are the 4 pieces to get. Maybe get the head too for multitargets fight (unless you have the legendary ofc)?

[Xenost]

It's a dps gain on 2 targets and more, but you may want to use pyroblast if you know the tank is about to move the boss.

But yeah basicaly if you know the boss(es) is gonna stay in place and alive for the next 8s, replace everyone of your PB with FS (on 2+ targets).

besides how long they live for, do you know how many targets its best to use LB for? This is mostly geared towards M+. I'd say generally LB is better but with fortified that changes things a bit.

Hmm I would have to sim that but I think the number is pretty high, probably around 8. (on 5 targets with my gear, FP was better)

For M+ it depends on the dungeon, you definitely want LB for dungeons with short lived adds (like rats in arcway or ichors in EoA, there are a lots of dungeon where you want LB on some packs). I pretty much use LB for every dungeons because it's more conveniant, but I can see FP being better on high fortified level (think >+13 )

Furthermore for dungeons you tend to want to burst one target down often, there are a lot of priority targets on trash pack since some packs are really hard in higher M+, which means you can't cast FS much (since you want the most ST dmg) , that's mainly why I prefer LB in those situations since LB doesn't impair your ST too much (you can just put LB on CD and go with your ST rotation)

[Katsumi]

I'd argue in favour of flame patch whenever you can't pull a million adds or you have to kill them at the same time (bolstering). DPS comes in smoothly and you can switch between targets to burn them down at the same rate. Multiple flame patches paired with a meteor during combust also have the potential to do respectable damage over the duration of a full fight for larger groups, except without the spikiness.

Regarding your argument on priority targets - fireballs and fireblasts will still be on the priority target and it is very convenient to switch between PB and FS as necessary.

[Xenost]

After having simmed FP is better than LB regardless of the number of targets, if all targets stay alive for enough time.

[Imaskar]

After having simmed FP is better than LB regardless of the number of targets, if all targets stay alive for enough time.

How much is enough? They will probably be alive for the first few FPs, but the latter ones will be clipped for sure.

[Falq]

After having simmed FP is better than LB regardless of the number of targets, if all targets stay alive for enough time.

How much is enough? They will probably be alive for the first few FPs, but the latter ones will be clipped for sure.

It's prob untill you run out of RoP and LB combo because that's what make it very strong, you get 2-3 LBs inside RoPs which blows things up, FP is better as sustain AoE damage but if you can blow things up saving LB/RoPs, LB get ahead a lot.

[Fooks]

As far as opener is concerned, I am not seeing any instruction on how to use Mirror Images.

I typically cast MI at 4 sec, Meteor at 2.5-3 sec, Pre-pot, PF at around 1 sec, Combust before PF hits boss, FB -> Normal Combust Rotation.

I feel like this provides my biggest single target opening, but if you have any feedback on why this may not be best please let me know!

[Kasc]

I typically cast MI at 4 sec, Meteor at 2.5-3 sec, Pre-pot, PF at around 1 sec, Combust before PF hits boss, FB -> Normal Combust Rotation.

Your meteor isn't benefiting from combustion. Your mirror images are not attacking the boss for 4 seconds. This is how I start, times are only a guide and made up /guessed. The only thing I'm certain about is casting FB at -3secs:

Code: Select all

- 3.0 | Pot + Fire ball - 1.0 | MI 0.0 | Meteor 0.5 | Combustion + PF + Blast if FB didn't crit 1.5 | Go!

To Rinoa: I feel like the guide massively undervalues Flame Patch and implies that you don't really want to use it because Living Bomb. Unless add packs are huge, the stability of FP seems to produce better results for me.

[Xenost]

His PF doesnt benefit from combustion either, most spells snapshot at the moment they leave your hands (the exception are mostly projectile/nontargeted style spells like Cinderstorm or Meteor)

The opener highlighted by kasc is the most commonly used and should be the best one for MI/Meteor.

Pay attention because there is a common mistake with this opener, you should combust at the end of the Meteor GCD, it's quite tricky since you can't queue Combust so you have to look at your GCD (if you have an add on which show a GCD bar it's easier) to know when to combust.

[Nyaline]

I recently got Koralon's but I'm kinda struckling with the rotation as it seems that I'm cancelling my heating ups somehow.

Is it like: scorch until I get heating up, scorch again with FB and Pyro?

[Neeb]

I recently got Koralon's but I'm kinda struckling with the rotation as it seems that I'm cancelling my heating ups somehow.

Is it like: scorch until I get heating up, scorch again with FB and Pyro?

The reason it's cancelling your heating up is because scorch is instant and pyro has a travel time, so you're casting scorch -> pyro with a pyro proc, your scorch crits, gives you heating up but your pyro doesn't, so it removes the heating up.

You can either do scorch (without heating up) + fb -> pyro or move inside the boss hitbox so it reduces pyro travel time and doesn't remove your heating up proc if it doesn't crit.

[Nyaline]

thanks, nonetheless its a guaranteed crit as Im supposed you only use scorch below 30%

[Magikreaper]

A little question about the ignite :
when you have 2 targets, you strike only one with a pyro for the example, after 2 seconds, the ignite of the first target will spread to the second one.
What happen 2 sec later ? Does the ignite of the first target spread again on the second one ? does it add the first target ignite to the second one ?

[Falq]

A little question about the ignite :
when you have 2 targets, you strike only one with a pyro for the example, after 2 seconds, the ignite of the first target will spread to the second one.
What happen 2 sec later ? Does the ignite of the first target spread again on the second one ? does it add the first target ignite to the second one ?

I was planning to make topic about ignite here to make clear for mages how it works but couldn't find time for it but it's good question.

As far as I know,

2 sec later If main target have higher ignite, it will spread to target with lower ignite, that's why it's dps loss to switch targets when stacked for us, because rather than building huge ignite on main target, so it spread to second one, you build 2 ignites same time and target can only have one biggest ignite on himself.

For example if you flamestrike group, ignite does not spread at all because everyone got same hit and there is nothing to spread because targets have same ignite.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

[Saróx]

A little question about the ignite :
when you have 2 targets, you strike only one with a pyro for the example, after 2 seconds, the ignite of the first target will spread to the second one.
What happen 2 sec later ? Does the ignite of the first target spread again on the second one ? does it add the first target ignite to the second one ?

I was planning to make topic about ignite here to make clear for mages how it works but couldn't find time for it but it's good question.

As far as I know,

2 sec later If main target have higher ignite, it will spread to target with lower ignite, that's why it's dps loss to switch targets when stacked for us, because rather than building huge ignite on main target, so it spread to second one, you build 2 ignites same time and target can only have one biggest ignite on himself.

For example if you flamestrike group, ignite does not spread at all because everyone got same hit and there is nothing to spread because targets have same ignite.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

Ignite always add ontop of the existing ignite, so in the scenario Falq describes, the target you build your heating up procs, will normaly have a higher ignite than the surrounding targets, meaning this ignite will spread and add ontop of the ignite produced by flamestrike. This does not mean that the ignite doubles in power, it just equalizes all the existing Ignites.

[Xenost]

A little question about the ignite :
when you have 2 targets, you strike only one with a pyro for the example, after 2 seconds, the ignite of the first target will spread to the second one.
What happen 2 sec later ? Does the ignite of the first target spread again on the second one ? does it add the first target ignite to the second one ?

I was planning to make topic about ignite here to make clear for mages how it works but couldn't find time for it but it's good question.

As far as I know,

2 sec later If main target have higher ignite, it will spread to target with lower ignite, that's why it's dps loss to switch targets when stacked for us, because rather than building huge ignite on main target, so it spread to second one, you build 2 ignites same time and target can only have one biggest ignite on himself.

For example if you flamestrike group, ignite does not spread at all because everyone got same hit and there is nothing to spread because targets have same ignite.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

It's 100% wrong, ignite always stacks regardless of the situation, you could switch targets 3 times, if these are stacked and alive for the full duration you will see 0 dps loss.

If it worked the way you thought mastery wouldn't be rated so high in a FS (FP ) rotation.
For FS ignite is applied on each target then is spread, like you have 30% mastery. 30% of FS dmg will be applied as ignite for every target then it will spread on top of each others, if you have lets say 2 target each target will have 60% of FS dmg as ignite running.

For ST spell example let's say you have 2 targets and cast PB on them, 1 PB per target.

PB on target 1 -> PB on target 2
1.30 dmg on T1 1.30 dmg on T2 (for the sake of the example I won't take into account the bonus of PB to ignite)

Here you have one ignite of 0.30 on each target which will spread to the other, total dmg will be 1.30+0.30 +1.30+0.30 = 3.20 (PB dmg)

If you cast both PB on the same targets you have

2.60 on T1 with 0.60 which spreads to P2 : 2.60+0.60 =3.20

Exactly the same damage.

[Saróx]

A little question about the ignite :
when you have 2 targets, you strike only one with a pyro for the example, after 2 seconds, the ignite of the first target will spread to the second one.
What happen 2 sec later ? Does the ignite of the first target spread again on the second one ? does it add the first target ignite to the second one ?

I was planning to make topic about ignite here to make clear for mages how it works but couldn't find time for it but it's good question.

As far as I know,

2 sec later If main target have higher ignite, it will spread to target with lower ignite, that's why it's dps loss to switch targets when stacked for us, because rather than building huge ignite on main target, so it spread to second one, you build 2 ignites same time and target can only have one biggest ignite on himself.

For example if you flamestrike group, ignite does not spread at all because everyone got same hit and there is nothing to spread because targets have same ignite.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

It's 100% wrong, ignite always stacks regardless of the situation, you could switch targets 3 times, if these are stacked and alive for the full duration you will see 0 dps loss.

If it worked the way you thought mastery wouldn't be rated so high in a FS (FP ) rotation.
For FS ignite is applied on each target then is spread, like you have 30% mastery. 30% of FS dmg will be applied as ignite for every target then it will spread on top of each others, if you have lets say 2 target each target will have 60% of FS dmg as ignite running.

For ST spell example let's say you have 2 targets and cast PB on them, 1 PB per target.

PB on target 1 -> PB on target 2
1.30 dmg on T1 1.30 dmg on T2 (for the sake of the example I won't take into account the bonus of PB to ignite)

Here you have one ignite of 0.30 on each target which will spread to the other, total dmg will be 1.30+0.30 +1.30+0.30 = 3.20 (PB dmg)

If you cast both PB on the same targets you have

2.60 on T1 with 0.60 which spreads to P2 : 2.60+0.60 =3.20

Exactly the same damage.

The only issue with target swapping, is that if your not being efficent at it, and perhaps click the next target, you might end up having some downtime before applying the next dmging spell, allowing the initial ignite, to drop to a lower lvl than it woulda been had you been chaining into one target. The ignite spreads every 2 second meaning the strongest ignite will be favoured, and if you swap you allow that strong ignite to decay abit, leaving the overall ignite a slight bit lower than what it could have been.

It's not a lot of dps, but still if you wanna be pessimistic about it, factors as swapping, ms and movement implies a lot on how strong the ignite is, if you allow any of these factors to impact the pace at which you would otherwise build the dmg of your ignite with.

[Xenost]

Yes It's true I forgot to factor the first 2 s of ignite you're missing out before the spread, but in effect you don't lose much. You want your big instances of damage right before the spread to maximize the ignite spreading but it's basicaly impossible to track.