[7.2] Fire Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

[iinverse]

With the last hotfix Blizzard wants to shift the value of Critical Strike:
Fire

• Cinderstorm will no longer consume additional stacks of Ice Floes when damage occurs.
• Fire Mage critical strike chance has been increased by 5%.
• Critical Mass multiplier has been decreased to 1.1 (was 1.3).
• Developer's Note: We shifted some critical strike chance from a multiplier on gear to a flat bonus. This brings the value of critical strike for Fire closer to other stats and also limits the very high amounts of critical strike chance that can be reached with certain gear.

[/i]

So the stat values will be differ then or not?

[Mortiferus]

With the last hotfix Blizzard wants to shift the value of Critical Strike:
Fire

• Cinderstorm will no longer consume additional stacks of Ice Floes when damage occurs.
• Fire Mage critical strike chance has been increased by 5%.
• Critical Mass multiplier has been decreased to 1.1 (was 1.3).
• Developer's Note: We shifted some critical strike chance from a multiplier on gear to a flat bonus. This brings the value of critical strike for Fire closer to other stats and also limits the very high amounts of critical strike chance that can be reached with certain gear.

[/i]

So the stat values will be differ then or not?

It will definitely devalue crit, achieving their stated goal of addressing Fire Mage scaling. Will also change the item level break points for non-crit gear upgrades.

It's also a buff to Cinderstorm in all situations.

[AlaAureus]

Wow, rip. That's a lot of work put in to be wasted. Since Critical Mass only affects certain spells and baseline crit was increased, I feel like every section of Frosted's post is going to need to be redone.

[schmeebs]

Quick Napkinmath says this puts crit closer to int (likely below) in almost all cases. So the broad strokes will be the same, at least for the first tier.

[Mortiferus]

Quick Napkinmath says this puts crit closer to int (likely below) in almost all cases. So the broad strokes will be the same, at least for the first tier.

Not that simple, in my view. It has trickle down effects. For example, it's a nerf to Mastery and Kindling, but a buff to Cinderstorm.

It certainly doesn't alter how we play, and it doesn't change the fact that Crit is highly desirable, but talents will need to be re-simmed, and the value of sockets and item level upgrades will change, especially if Crit now values below Int.

I'd love to sim this all out myself, but sadly, I'm on a Mac, at least until I get home tonight.

[Sturmcantor]

So sad, a huge nerf to fire and no major buffs for other specs i wonder about bracer pyro legendary is it rly worth to hardcast pyro? cuz it looks like a dps loss.

That's not a huge nerf to fire. On live, with 45% crit before the change I lose about 3% crit on Pyro/Fireball/Scorch and gain 5% crit on Flamestrike/talents/set procs/trinket procs. That means that even if the latter set of abilities comprised 0% of our damage (not the case) we lose at most ~3-4% damage.

For example, on my last Archi kill, I had this damage breakdown. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/qt ... &source=17" target="_blank

Modeling the change as a ~5% buff to Cinderstorm/Doom Nova/Flamestrike/4set/glove proc, a 3% nerf to Fireball/Pyro/Scorch/Ignite, and neutral on Fire Blast and Nithramus, I gain 0.5% damage. On a fight with less buff stuff, i.e. this heroic Iron Reaver:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/qt ... 17&fight=1" target="_blank

I lose 0.7% damage.

Pulling a random Ursoc log from Beta: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dt ... &source=15" target="_blank

He loses 2.33% damage, putting him just under the hunter right below him in damage.

[Frosted]

Lost a bit of DPS, it's nothing gigantic. We knew nerfs were coming, let's not be silly. I'll have to re-do basically all the sims, and the trinkets for the time being are wrong.

[Trylldom]

Good old Critical Mass roller coaster

[schmeebs]

Quick Napkinmath says this puts crit closer to int (likely below) in almost all cases. So the broad strokes will be the same, at least for the first tier.

Not that simple, in my view. It has trickle down effects. For example, it's a nerf to Mastery and Kindling, but a buff to Cinderstorm.

It certainly doesn't alter how we play, and it doesn't change the fact that Crit is highly desirable, but talents will need to be re-simmed, and the value of sockets and item level upgrades will change, especially if Crit now values below Int.

I'd love to sim this all out myself, but sadly, I'm on a Mac, at least until I get home tonight.

Hence quick NapkinMath, some things might shift a little bit, but the nature of this nerf means it will have more of an effect right now (Last week of Speed Clearing Mythic) than it does during the first tier of legion(by other posts indicating this is 'likely somewhere in the 3-4% nerf range.

Once i'm home i'll be able to sim, or just be lazy and wait for Frosted to do all the work for us

[Mortiferus]

Quick Napkinmath says this puts crit closer to int (likely below) in almost all cases. So the broad strokes will be the same, at least for the first tier.

Not that simple, in my view. It has trickle down effects. For example, it's a nerf to Mastery and Kindling, but a buff to Cinderstorm.

It certainly doesn't alter how we play, and it doesn't change the fact that Crit is highly desirable, but talents will need to be re-simmed, and the value of sockets and item level upgrades will change, especially if Crit now values below Int.

I'd love to sim this all out myself, but sadly, I'm on a Mac, at least until I get home tonight.

Hence quick NapkinMath, some things might shift a little bit, but the nature of this nerf means it will have more of an effect right now (Last week of Speed Clearing Mythic) than it does during the first tier of legion(by other posts indicating this is 'likely somewhere in the 3-4% nerf range.

Once i'm home i'll be able to sim, or just be lazy and wait for Frosted to do all the work for us

Does anyone have formulas for how Crit rating converts to % from 100 to 110? It's almost certainly a nerf now, but I imagine it'll be a buff while leveling in Legion, and a nerf again at a certain item level. The breakeven point is 32.5% stat sheet Crit—if your stat sheet says less than 32.5% chance, this is actually a buff. If it says more, it's a nerf to at least: Fireball, Pyroblast, Ignite and Kindling, but a buff to: Combustion (Crit -> Mastery conversion) and Cinderstorm. I'm excluding Scorch, Dragon's Breath, Flamestrike, etc. but those have already been discussed and/or are obvious.

I may be missing something though. Lot of moving parts in these changes.

[Milou]

I'd love to sim this all out myself, but sadly, I'm on a Mac, at least until I get home tonight.

Hugely off-topic, but Simc should run fine on the Mac, are you seeing issues with it?

[Mortiferus]

I'd love to sim this all out myself, but sadly, I'm on a Mac, at least until I get home tonight.

Hugely off-topic, but Simc should run fine on the Mac, are you seeing issues with it?

The latest public release builds work fine on a Mac, but the latest release builds are still Patch 6.X from February. The nightly, etc. builds are Windows only, and I'd want that as a starting point before mucking around with these changes.

[Sturmcantor]

Does anyone have formulas for how Crit rating converts to % from 100 to 110? It's almost certainly a nerf now, but I imagine it'll be a buff while leveling in Legion, and a nerf again at a certain item level. The breakeven point is 32.5% stat sheet Crit—if your stat sheet says less than 32.5% chance, this is actually a buff. If it says more, it's a nerf to at least: Fireball, Pyroblast, Ignite and Kindling, but a buff to: Combustion (Crit -> Mastery conversion) and Cinderstorm. I'm excluding Scorch, Dragon's Breath, Flamestrike, etc. but those have already been discussed and/or are obvious.

I may be missing something though. Lot of moving parts in these changes.

The change has no effect on Combustion - Combustion only converts actual crit rating to Mastery, not crit chance. And it's actually much less of a nerf now than in Legion due to class trinket depressing the percent of our damage that is due to Fireball and Pyro.

[Milou]

I'd love to sim this all out myself, but sadly, I'm on a Mac, at least until I get home tonight.

Hugely off-topic, but Simc should run fine on the Mac, are you seeing issues with it?

The latest public release builds work fine on a Mac, but the latest release builds are still Patch 6.X from February. The nightly, etc. builds are Windows only, and I'd want that as a starting point before mucking around with these changes.

Oh I see, I've always just built from git didn't consider what binaries were available.

[Curnivore]

I doubt it's a nerf at 100 considering I see +7% crit chance on mythic gear.

[Rhuan]

I doubt it's a nerf at 100 considering I see +7% crit chance on mythic gear.

+7% ? Are you sure?
If the buff to base crit is 5% and a nerf to critical mass, how can you have 7% increase?

[thaminder]

i think he meant that you have gained +7% crit with mythic gear before the buff/nerf - so the gear will no scale lower with critical mass -> so you loose 7% - 5% = 2% in summary

[Osinin]

On trinkets, from what I can see only the last boss of the first raid is a demon. Not sure about dungeons though.

It does state that is for fighting a demon but worth keeping in mind.

Thanks heaps for putting this together, muchly appreciated

[Xenost]

This nerf is further increased by enhanced pryotechnics, enhanced pryotechnics used to buff fireball crit by 13% now it will be 11%. more than likely wrong

But it's lessened by the addition of the artifact spell phoenix flame which is guaranteed to crit.

All in all, I think the nerf is pretty substantial but not enough to bring fire down, still the goto spec. Let's wait for sims.

Does anyone have formulas for how Crit rating converts to % from 100 to 110? It's almost certainly a nerf now, but I imagine it'll be a buff while leveling in Legion, and a nerf again at a certain item level. The breakeven point is 32.5% stat sheet Crit—if your stat sheet says less than 32.5% chance, this is actually a buff. If it says more, it's a nerf to at least: Fireball, Pyroblast, Ignite and Kindling, but a buff to: Combustion (Crit -> Mastery conversion) and Cinderstorm. I'm excluding Scorch, Dragon's Breath, Flamestrike, etc. but those have already been discussed and/or are obvious.

I may be missing something though. Lot of moving parts in these changes.

32.5% Is not that hard to attain when you have 25% base. The value will be 350 Crit -> 1% . Getting 7.5% from gear will be pretty easy.

[Sixtus]

This nerf is further increased by enhanced pryotechnics, enhanced pryotechnics used to buff fireball crit by 13% now it will be 11%.

But it's lessened by the addition of the artifact spell phoenix flame which is guaranteed to crit.

All in all, I think the nerf is pretty substantial but not enough to bring fire down, still the goto spec. Let's wait for sims.

Does anyone have formulas for how Crit rating converts to % from 100 to 110? It's almost certainly a nerf now, but I imagine it'll be a buff while leveling in Legion, and a nerf again at a certain item level. The breakeven point is 32.5% stat sheet Crit—if your stat sheet says less than 32.5% chance, this is actually a buff. If it says more, it's a nerf to at least: Fireball, Pyroblast, Ignite and Kindling, but a buff to: Combustion (Crit -> Mastery conversion) and Cinderstorm. I'm excluding Scorch, Dragon's Breath, Flamestrike, etc. but those have already been discussed and/or are obvious.

I may be missing something though. Lot of moving parts in these changes.

32.5% Is not that hard to attain when you have 25% base. The value will be 350 Crit -> 1% . Getting 7.5% from gear will be pretty easy.

Are you sure that CM stacks with Enchanced Pyrotechics? The text reads:

"Each time your Fireball fails to critically strike a target, it gains a stacking 10% increased critical strike chance. Effect ends when Fireball critically strikes."

Which I interpret as adding 10 % of crit on top after everything else, not as 10 % crit bonus before everything else.