Dungeon trash AoE rotation discussion

[Kintoun]

What is everyone using for their AoE spell priority on Dungeon trash and Raid trash?

As with most I'm doing good enough, but struggle to keep up with melee AoE (DH, Monk) in mythics. I'd really like to try and optimize what I'm doing so am seeking help.

By no means is this best (hence the thread) but this is what I am currently using. Conflag, RoP, FO, LB, CiS. Crit > Int > Mastery > rest.

<20s TTK (time to kill):
LB -> RoP -> PF -> CiS + Combustion if wanted -> (PF -> FBlast -> FS)x1-3 -> LB -> CiS -> Fireball ...

With >60s TTK I swap FS with PB and tab between the MOBs on fireball to apply Conflag to as many targets as possible.

I have Phoenix Reborn artifact talent so my PFs recharges pretty fast on trash. How long does trash need to live before PB should be used instead of FS?

Also how do I sim 4 or more target trash using simulationcraft? I cannot seem to find the setting/option. I'd like to study the APL being used.

Updated: PF to get Ignite before CiS. Conflag > Pyromanaic. Tab to diff targets to apply Conflag.

[Kypes]

I just open a google chrome tab with youtube and enjoy a short video while the tank warrior or demonhunter kills trash.

The fight is over so fast, my ignite is not even spreading.

[Irugard]

conflag is insanely strong on aoe, sometimes is even my top damage! Definitely use that even for single target

As for FS, unless you have the double pillar golden trait, I believe the number is 7-8+
Otherwise just pop em pyros

I also personally use kindling so I can pop combustion on every second trash pull. But thats completely personal preference since CiS technically is better on aoe.

EDIT: also dragons breath. Holy *@*@ dragons breath. its so SO strong for aoe. Use is on cooldown whenever you have 2 or more targets. I believe it has highest priority outside combustion and given enough adds even has highest priority in combustion.

[Foxmikelima]

Until you get echoing flame strike, it's better to cast normal pyro rotation unless there are 7+ targets.

[gallamann]

Due to reading on this site, Flamestrike I just about never use.

AoE (run Kindling), if 3+ I go RoP (at DB range), LB, DB and then try for PB's while maintaining LB and DB on cool. Try to use Combust on the bigger packs.

Hoping with Mythic+ we start seeing larger trash pulls, otherwise will continue to see barely any FS usage.

Blizzard probably went to far with Flame Patch nerf, it has just removed FS play on almost all AoE situations.

[Vokemage]

I think the biggest thing to remember is use RoP on CD.

[Raaiven]

You guys severely overvalue pyro on adds. You are supposed to spam pyro if there is time given for ignite to spread. If 5 adds will liveno longer than 8-10 seconds then you are gaining more value out of flamestrike.

[Foxmikelima]

You guys severely overvalue pyro on adds. You are supposed to spam pyro if there is time given for ignite to spread. If 5 adds will liveno longer than 8-10 seconds then you are gaining more value out of flamestrike.

If Flamestrike could cause heating up or hot streak, i'd agree with you, but as it stands, as far as mythic and soon to be mythic+ trash stands, Pyro will outperform Flamestrike on any 4-5 target pull. It's more effective at creating larger ignites, which will be your largest source of damage on any cleave fight aside from potentially living bomb. Once people have Echoing strikes and start running flame patch, Flamestrike will definitely be better for those 4-5 target pulls.

[Brenneman]

I seem to be getting good results from running conflagration/ LB/ CiS.

Precast a fireball to get conflagration on and ignite. Blink into melee and setup your RoP directly behind the mobs. Living bomb first then use icey flows to hit as many mobs with CiS as possible. This causes the living bomb CD to line up nicely with CiS cooldown. Then dragons breath and rotate PF with fireblast and FS until LB and CiS are off CD. Replace FS with Pyro if you can get the full effect of ignite and there is less than 7 mobs. If this is the case I recommend cast dragons breath directly after RoP to get 2 casts/pack, which in heroics and even mythics usually isn't the case. Use combustion at the end of CiS with RoP or before DB as discussed. Make sure to cast a fireball either before or or directly after the second set of LB/CiS to refresh conflagration. And try not to use combustion if there is an incoming boss

I have been yielding anywhere from 300000k-425000k dps from total heroic dungeons doing this. Depending on how big the tank pulls and how much damage the other members of the group do. If the tank pulls quickly, but only one group at a time and you have other good damage with you, will end up being RoP starved. I don't recommend using more than one RoP per pull on trash, unless something accidentally pulled and your group is in danger. If anyone has any improvements to this it would be greatly appritiated with mythic + coming out Tuesday!

There is a few groups of mobs I can think of that being in melee range causes the group more harm than good.

The jumping cats in dark heart thicket.
The lancers that jump and stun in blackrook hold.
The mobs that put the lightning debug on you in halls of Valor.
Any others anyone can think of?

[Kintoun]

You guys severely overvalue pyro on adds. You are supposed to spam pyro if there is time given for ignite to spread. If 5 adds will liveno longer than 8-10 seconds then you are gaining more value out of flamestrike.

If Flamestrike could cause heating up or hot streak, i'd agree with you, but as it stands, as far as mythic and soon to be mythic+ trash stands, Pyro will outperform Flamestrike on any 4-5 target pull. It's more effective at creating larger ignites, which will be your largest source of damage on any cleave fight aside from potentially living bomb. Once people have Echoing strikes and start running flame patch, Flamestrike will definitely be better for those 4-5 target pulls.

"any" 4-5 target pull? What we're trying to figure out is how long the trash needs to live for PB to be better than FS.

[Curnivore]

You can research it with simcraft. It has a command that draws adds that are short lived on demand.

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/Enemies" target="_blank

[Sosaria]

My rotation for trash is:

ROP
Living Bomb
Phoenix Flames
Cinderstorm
Dragonbreath
Fire + pyro rotation
*keep living bomb and cinderstorm and dragonbreath off CD

This rotation nets me REALLY good dps for trash but requires you to be in a good position for Cinderstorm (so you don't accidently pull another group of mobs)

I've run Mythic with this trash rotation and found that it's a good balance between ROP cooldown and Phoenix flame cooldowns; so you're not starved when entering a boss fight.

[Xenost]

I think it doesn't matter for short lived add, if these adds die so fast they aren't a problem anyway so I don't see the point on maximizing your dps for these adds.

I think DB is of higher priority than CiS except if all cinders hit all targets which is not realistic. So starting your RoP sequence with LB->DB (or DB->LB this needs to be simed) should be better. Does LB snapshot ? If not you should cast it before RoP.

[Ascherino]

Cast LB before RoP, you'll have it down before LB goes off and can spend more time casting other stuff during RoP that way

[Glace]

Many people seem to forget/ignore that CiS does 30% increased damage against ignited targets. This is why I always use PF before CiS because PF applies ignite to all stacked targets.
You also want to use LB before RoP as LB does nothing during the time you cast RoP.

LB<RoP<PF<CiS<DB<Fireball(with fireblast)<Pyro. Continue normal rotation from here with CiS and LB on CD. This is afaik the best opener on any 3+ pulls.

[Nibbler]

I got a doubt for AoE. With lvl 90 talent flame patch if u cast flamestrike twice in less than 8 second does this talent stacks in the ground or the 2nd flamestrike replace the area of the 1st flamestrike?

[Unreal]

Flame patch stacks. I remember having stacked 6x flamepatches at the iskar trash with decent tosw procs and manual fa casts

[Nibbler]

Thank you for your response

[Sosaria]

I don't use Flamestrike at all. I'm also considering -not- getting the flamestrike artifact unlock because my current AOE rotation nearly rivals the Demon Hunter trash dps.

[Sosaria]

To maximise your dps for any particular trash mob; cast Ice Flows just as the tank is about to pull, and start casting ROP when you're running BEHIND the mobs (so when you PF + cinderstorm, you don't pull other trash).

Cinderstorm is the greatest concern when doing trash... as it can fly off and aggro more than intended.

I can consistently out-dps most classes with the exception of a well-played Demon-Hunter, well played Hunters, and Fury Warriors (they're just insane).

(Having said that, and after doing a ton of research and practice; Fire Mages still come out on top with Single target boss fights )