Fire Trinket Discussion Megathread

[Socratocracy]

I have 3 trinkets at the moment that I'm on the fence about.

840 Shock Baton
850 Wriggling Sinew w/ Socket
855 Spiked Tongue

Currently using 840 Baton+ Tongue for Mythic +, and leaning toward Sinew+ Tongue for raids.

Thoughts? If I'm popping Sinew at the beginning of the fight before pre-casting Fireball, will the damage reliably be triggering before my Combustion is out?

[Mage]

Can someone clarify whether EN trinket list in Frosted's post assumes 865 ilvl 5man trinkets?

About Arcanocrystal - for my stat weights it comes up to 21k DPS. That's about on par with 850 baton/naraxas for single target. Most likely takes over when cleave/aoe is present.

[lunchlady]

Need help here guys, which trinket combination should I use?
http://imgur.com/a/Nh4bh" target="_blank (List of all trinketes and char stats with baton equiped.)
Also why does everyone like sinews so much? On my opener its only critting for 2.1m. Wouldn't the proc trinkets be better for fights longer than 4 minutes?

Total Results from the character sims (Baton + x)
Tongue: 303.4k dps
Oaks: 302.4k
Swarm: 304.8k
Sinew: 291.k

So is Swarming Plaguehive the clear winner?
Thanks

[Neeb]

Need help here guys, which trinket combination should I use?
http://imgur.com/a/Nh4bh" target="_blank (List of all trinketes and char stats with baton equiped.)
Also why does everyone like sinews so much? On my opener its only critting for 2.1m. Wouldn't the proc trinkets be better for fights longer than 4 minutes?

Total Results from the character sims (Baton + x)
Tongue: 303.4k dps
Oaks: 302.4k
Swarm: 304.8k
Sinew: 291.k

So is Swarming Plaguehive the clear winner?
Thanks

It looks like your sim is not using the Sinew (equipped but it's not using it) because it shouldn't be that low, can you check the damage breakdown to see if it has any damage from it?

If it doesn't make sure you logout using it and then import your character so the actions are updated with the on use.

From experience baton + sinew should be the highest there.

[Naiyano]

Anyone know how good is Unstable Arcanocrystasl? vs a spiked tongue

iLvl 860
+807 Critical Strike
+807 Haste
+807 mastery
+807 Versa

Wondering the same thing. Sadly i can't get simcraft to run atm.

[xirrohon]

Wondering the same thing. Sadly i can't get simcraft to run atm.

Ive been using Frosteds statweights in AMR. It ranks Arcanocrystal slightly above Mythic Plaguehive

[Preheat]

Arcanocrystal is GROSSLY overbudget.

Sim run using my armory:

Other trinket is http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=139326/wrig ... bonus=1806


Pairwise:


Make sure you go find J'im and try to get that trinket. Coining his is 100% worth it since the trinket is nuts and you only get to kill him once every couple months.

[Potaetoe]

Can someone clarify whether EN trinket list in Frosted's post assumes 865 ilvl 5man trinkets?

About Arcanocrystal - for my stat weights it comes up to 21k DPS. That's about on par with 850 baton/naraxas for single target. Most likely takes over when cleave/aoe is present.

Yes the EN Trinket comparison in Frosted's thread is 865 comparisons for all trinkets.

[lunchlady]

Need help here guys, which trinket combination should I use?
http://imgur.com/a/Nh4bh" target="_blank (List of all trinketes and char stats with baton equiped.)
Also why does everyone like sinews so much? On my opener its only critting for 2.1m. Wouldn't the proc trinkets be better for fights longer than 4 minutes?

Total Results from the character sims (Baton + x)
Tongue: 303.4k dps
Oaks: 302.4k
Swarm: 304.8k
Sinew: 291.k

So is Swarming Plaguehive the clear winner?
Thanks

It looks like your sim is not using the Sinew (equipped but it's not using it) because it shouldn't be that low, can you check the damage breakdown to see if it has any damage from it?

If it doesn't make sure you logout using it and then import your character so the actions are updated with the on use.

From experience baton + sinew should be the highest there.

Yah I can't see any damage done from sinews, I'm using the method where you type /simc in game. Idk

[Celbrise]

just got a huge upgrade. was using my 850 sinew last night on heroic dragons and ursoc with cinders and my dps was VERY low not even breaking 200k. i replaced it with my naraxxas tongue which is 840 and ran it with my 830 baton but i am wondering what am i doing wrong?

i open up with rop, cinders, sinew, combust, go to town until it proc's then 2nd rop and cinders and fillers. on dragons i can understand cinders missing but on ursorc where your right infront of his face i don't understand how it was so damn low.

is my rotation wrong, cinders not hitting or what? with tongue and baton and kindling i easily run 230k and can reach up to 293k as i get multiple combustion phases. i am sitting at 58% crit with sinew on replacing tongue and 16% mastery. i got an 865 sinew last night which i am now using but haven't played with yet

[shvndrgn]

Can you post logs?

[fieryphoenix]

just got a huge upgrade. was using my 850 sinew last night on heroic dragons and ursoc with cinders and my dps was VERY low not even breaking 200k. i replaced it with my naraxxas tongue which is 840 and ran it with my 830 baton but i am wondering what am i doing wrong?

i open up with rop, cinders, sinew, combust, go to town until it proc's then 2nd rop and cinders and fillers. on dragons i can understand cinders missing but on ursorc where your right infront of his face i don't understand how it was so damn low.

is my rotation wrong, cinders not hitting or what? with tongue and baton and kindling i easily run 230k and can reach up to 293k as i get multiple combustion phases. i am sitting at 58% crit with sinew on replacing tongue and 16% mastery. i got an 865 sinew last night which i am now using but haven't played with yet

You gotta pop sinew trinket earlier. You have a whopping 30 seconds to hit the enemy 10 times. Use it before you even prepot or precast, once you have applied a couple stacks, do your rop+combustion, it should hit during combustion, rop and with 5 stacks of pyretic incantation. It nets me 2,2-2,3 mil with ilvl 858

[broedrost]

just got a huge upgrade. was using my 850 sinew last night on heroic dragons and ursoc with cinders and my dps was VERY low not even breaking 200k. i replaced it with my naraxxas tongue which is 840 and ran it with my 830 baton but i am wondering what am i doing wrong?

i open up with rop, cinders, sinew, combust, go to town until it proc's then 2nd rop and cinders and fillers. on dragons i can understand cinders missing but on ursorc where your right infront of his face i don't understand how it was so damn low.

is my rotation wrong, cinders not hitting or what? with tongue and baton and kindling i easily run 230k and can reach up to 293k as i get multiple combustion phases. i am sitting at 58% crit with sinew on replacing tongue and 16% mastery. i got an 865 sinew last night which i am now using but haven't played with yet

You gotta pop sinew trinket earlier. You have a whopping 30 seconds to hit the enemy 10 times. Use it before you even prepot or precast, once you have applied a couple stacks, do your rop+combustion, it should hit during combustion, rop and with 5 stacks of pyretic incantation. It nets me 2,2-2,3 mil with ilvl 858

At hero pull, you do have time to pull off sinew proc during combustion if you use it before you open up. You gotta be fast though =)

[Frostrating]

So I've been reading this thread for awhile and people seem to consider when using wriggling sinew that kindling and cinderstorm both preform very well when using the trinket.
My question though is: if I'm using kindling, combustion comes up before wriggling, do I burn this combustion and wait with the sinew before my next combustion? either I wait about 30 seconds which results in kindling being worthless. Or I wait a minute with wriggling for next combustion and use it on every second combustion possible.


Thoughts?

[Weezdion]

So I've been reading this thread for awhile and people seem to consider when using wriggling sinew that kindling and cinderstorm both preform very well when using the trinket.
My question though is: if I'm using kindling, combustion comes up before wriggling, do I burn this combustion and wait with the sinew before my next combustion? either I wait about 30 seconds which results in kindling being worthless. Or I wait a minute with wriggling for next combustion and use it on every second combustion possible.


Thoughts?

Wait on trinket CD and do it every second Combustion when using Kindling. You will net more damage from trinket overall this way than to pop it on CD unless you are very lucky and get same RoP, PI, and crit with trinket outside of your burn phase.

Edit: Wait time should be around 1min and that is around 33% damage loss from not using trinket on CD. Since guaranteed bonus from RoP, PI, Comb will do way more than 33% bonus damage it is gain compared to on CD usage. This is simplified a lot but if you do full math you get to pretty much same result.

[dioneslol]

What u guys think its better to use,

835 Baton or 840 naraxas With a gem slot ?

With Baton I have 64% Crit atm, my other trinket is a 865 Sinew

I have tested then on a dummy and it semmed equal, but results did vary quit a bit from test to test

[shvndrgn]

Unless you sit on dummy for 10+ minutes, proc rates are going to throw a wrench in your plans. And that's assuming you did exactly the same rotation each time. Sim both combinations. That's the only way you'll really know. I'd imagine the difference between them is at most 1-2%.

[Sosaria]

I picked up a Sinew 865 last night and ran some quick numbers (will need to do a raid later to get more data).

A perfectly executed Sinew of ilvl 865 (6 stacks on target before combusting) will net you a total of 2.3m damage every 2 minutes.

The cons of this trinket are:
- Perfect rotation required (6 stacks of whispers before using combust)
- Delayed Combustion (as Kindling usually refreshes your combustion BEFORE the trinket 2m CD)

Just going through my raid boss kill logs; I've found that I'm doing roughly (depending on how the long the fight goes for):
3-4 million with my 845 Baton
3-5 million with my 850 Oakheart

So if a fight lasts for exactly 6 minutes, at best I will only be doing 6.9 million damage with the Sinew trinket, on the basis that I've done a perfect rotation with it. Likewise, I've hit 3 million with my Baton, and somewhere between 4-5 million damage with my Oakheart

However, the question is how much precious time would you have wasted NOT using combust because the Sinew was on cooldown, and will the trinket damage offset the time lost?

Compare the Sinew 865 trinket with my 850 Oakheart. The Oakheart has +900 versatility on it, which gives me roughly a 1-2 % boost in damage across the board.

With the Oakheart+Baton combination, I'm sitting at 62% crit rate.
With the Sinew+Baton combination, I'm sitting at 65% crit rate.

A big benefit for having a high crit rate with Kindling is because combustion adds the crit value to the mastery stat, meaning you have much higher ignite damage during combust phase.

However, as you are delaying combustion for the Sinew cooldown (in most cases anywhere between 20-40 seconds delayed while waiting for Sinew to CD so you can pop combust with it), not to mention you need 6 stacks of whispering on the target before combusting (so you reach the max trinket damage of 2.3m damage) and therefore losing another few seconds... The added crit rate of 3% from the Sinew trinket doesn't offset the potential damage loss from Oakheart's versatility bonus nor it's proc damage.

Will it offset the potential damage loss due to delaying combustion (up to 20-40 seconds) ?

The Sinew's on-use trinket also seems tricky to use, as you have to line it up with Combust to get the best out of it (if you use the trinket without combust you only do 1.1m damage with it every 2 minutes... other high proc passive trinkets are better in that regard)

Thoughts? (I'm still needed to do more testing)

[Sosaria]

I was told that the idea is you don't delay Combust for Sinew... you delay Sinew for combust.

I always ended up having combust ready to go for round 2 but Sinew is still 20-40 seconds off.

Say I fire off the combustion (2nd time) first then, Sinew not used because it's still on CD... The 3rd combust is when I can use the Sinew again together so I get the maximum damage potential from the trinket.

In which case, you're not guaranteed 2.3million damage from the trinket every 2 minutes (going off the ilvl 865 version), as you're not using it unless it's lined up with combustion for max potential.

There's also the danger of misfiring the trinket (procs not going off during combustion due to timing) where you don't reach the max damage potential.

I used the trinket in some Mythic runs... It's incredibly powerful for the opening pull and since most Mythic bosses don't last 2 minutes it's awesome to use. I'm just wondering whether it's worth using on longer boss fights where the potential damage off this trinket outweighs the damage potentially done by other passive proc trinkets like Oakheart and Plaguehive; seeing how it's all about the timing with combustion to get the most out of it.

Wowlogs are currently broken, but I remember reading some top fire mage parses and their Wiggling Sinew damage isn't all that hot.

[Bamboozled]

So I'm pretty disappointed that Twisting Wind doesn't match up with how Ask Mr. Robot is placing it. Ive been using my bonus rolls on Elerethe and got a normal titanforged (ilvl865) version. I was ecstatic. Now Im hearing that it may be a downgrade for me :C. I don't have Baton, Oaks, or Devilsaur. I honestly dont like 5 man content, and the runs that Ive done havnt yielded any of these. My current trinkets are:

Swarming Plaugehive ilvl865 (heroic)

Portable Manacracker ilvl850 (mythic 4)

Unstable Arcanocrystal ilvl860

DmD:Hellfire ilvl850

Twisting Wind ilvl865(titanforged normal)

What combo should I use? I think my main question is the between the cracker Plaugehive and Arcanocrystal.

Hope someone can help me out