Fire and Crit

[Mystiq]

I've been playing a mage since November 2004 and I've been Fire for a large portion of that time. Never in this game's history have I been so annoyed at loot and my eyes are pointing to how Fire treats crit against all other stats. Is anyone else as annoyed at this as I am? It plays into the fact that Fire's burst is pretty crazy but the damage levels off fast once Combustion is used up. I'm not nearly as bothered by that (though it is non-zero).

• Got Norgannon's Foresight. Replaced a 840 crit/mastery boots. They were a 5000 DPS upgrade according to SimCraft but I'd gather they'll be out-stripped by an 865 from EN. (Getting this item made me extremely sad because not only were the stats terrible but the bonus is nigh-useless for raiding.)
• I've had to toss so many ilvl upgrade items because they don't have crit or the ratio is off. This feels terrible when an item is 20 ilvls higher but the item is a downgrade.
• So many items I've gotten have gone to waste because I couldn't trade them with someone else because they're an ilvl upgrade but is still an overall loss.
• Because of my priorities, the actual pool of available loot shrinks dramatically. Crit non-existent or not the highest stat: forget it.

The result of all this is that I'm sitting at ilvl 852 but the items in my inventory would bring me to 854. If Blizzard is going to use ilvl as a gauge for player progress then ilvl should mean something. It does, I've been told, to every class/spec but Fire mage. I really think something needs to be done about Fire's treatment of stats other than crit but the decision is difficult because of how Combustion interacts with mastery and crit. They finally fixed Fire's scaling problem by pushing crit into mastery but created an itemization issue.

(Note: Not the first time I've visited here. Been a non-posting visitor since Pandaland.)

[Sosaria]

I'm ilvl 849, and I'm still using an 830 ring because the crit on the ring is still higher than all the other rings I've picked up.

The other factor about this 830 ring is because it's got a bit of haste on it and even if I pick up a new ring with better crit, I can't use that because I lose my haste to the point I fall below the 1800 haste break point.

A way to get around not being invited to Mythics because your ilvl is (low) is to put on the highest gear, line up, get invited, then switch back to optimised gear when you're in the instance.

Unfortunately, this is how the system has been designed so we all have to adapt to it.

You will eventually get to the point where you wonder which 850+ trinket is best using... it's terribly frustrating.

[Xenost]

Tbh we aren't the only spec where stats matter when comparing pieces (Arms warrior comes to mind). Personally, I like that there is some decision making for gearing; different strokes for different folks.

A way to get around not being invited to Mythics because your ilvl is (low) is to put on the highest gear, line up, get invited, then switch back to optimised gear when you're in the instance.

As far as I know it's useless to do that, the ilvl displayed in the group finder is already the best ilvl from all your gear.

[Mystiq]

Tbh we aren't the only spec where stats matter when comparing pieces (Arms warrior comes to mind). Personally, I like that there is some decision making for gearing; different strokes for different folks.

I'm not sure it's intentional. Look at the gear from any given boss in EN. Take Il'gynoth. Three out of the five items do not have crit. For Elerethe, none of the items have crit as their highest stat. By our standards, she has no loot and I would never use a coin on her.

If it were intentional, I'd argue there are other, less frustrating decisions to be had on gear. All this does is drop the pool of loot (see: Elerethe). It would look intentional if Fire actually had separate gear with almost all crit on it or there was a way to gain crit from mastery/haste. As it is, all three mage specs see the same gear and we are highly discouraged from taking gear without crit. In past expansions, gear without crit wasn't ideal but it was by no means a non-starter.

That said, sure, I could totally be wrong.

[Rumstein]

EN having poorly optimised gear is intentional. Most classes only have 3 or 4 pieces that are any good for them, and maybe 2 trinkets from EN. Shadow Priests also have similar issues - If there is no haste, it's worthless.

[kamui]

• I doubt that your 840 Boots is better than Norgannon's. From what I've seen of my stat weights and from other people, Crit is not miles ahead of every else, though it is still better than Int in most cases. I've not seen a simulation where a 840 non-jewelry piece outweights a 895 piece.
• The gearing issue applies to a lot more specs than you think it does. Shadow Priests and Boomkins come to mind immediately.

[Mystiq]

Norgannon's isn't better than the 840 but a fairly good 860 likely will be.

That's a shame.

[Stauros]

Norgannon's isn't better than the 840 but a fairly good 860 likely will be.

That's a shame.

Not better based on what facts? I bet you gain significantly more intellect than you lose in crit.

[thaloreth]

Just a quick heads up - the items in your bag that make up the highest equip-able item level are the pieces that group leader sees when wanting to join a mythic- you don't need to swap gear about

[Mystiq]

Norgannon's isn't better than the 840 but a fairly good 860 likely will be.

That's a shame.

Not better based on what facts? I bet you gain significantly more intellect than you lose in crit.

Where am I saying other items are better than Norgannon's? I specifically stated it was an upgrade over my 840. I don't have any higher boots yet to see how the two compare.

I'm pushing 858 and am still pretty sad about this. There are threads popping up on the official Mage forums fairly regularly about it. If other classes have a similar issue, I don't think that means it's okay for Fire to have it as well. I think Blizzard should adjust the stats in all cases.

I have a fair number of pieces I don't use sitting in my inventory just to push my ilvl to 861. It works, and I've never had anyone comment that my DPS is lower than expected -- an indication, I think, that right now ilvl means a lot less than it used to. Gearing this expansion has really become a pain point for me as items become extremely hit or miss largely based on the stats, dropping the pool of gear that is useful.

[Darksbané]

How to gear fire is right now is for example you have 840 boots with 500 crit you then get a 880 boots with no crit but the intellect gain is higher than the crit lost in that case its worth it.

[Curnivore]

How to gear fire is right now is for example you have 840 boots with 500 crit you then get a 880 boots with no crit but the intellect gain is higher than the crit lost in that case its worth it.

It's generally counter-intuitive and I need sims to do it. I've seen 25 levels lose to more crit but I've seen higher level win without crit sometimes. It's more complicated when you factor in different encounter durations because the results may change so it can't be cookie cutter (or different characters or encounters). It's hard to think about it when you consider the other secondaries may be the deciding factor. I got a neck that had +5 ilevel and higher crit but it lost to a neck of -5 ilevel and lower crit, but, it had a better other secondary.

[Zyrachiel]

Post mildly related.
Is the IcyVeins preview list of loot broken, or does literally all the gear from Karazhan have haste/mastery?

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/2 ... n-preview/

[Curnivore]

That's probably a placeholder pair of stats.