Raiding in 7.1: Living Bomb or Unstable Magic?

[Universetube]

For Emerald Dream N/H, do you take Living Bomb or Unstable Magic and have you simmed them vs each other?

[exeed]

From my experience, Unstable Magic does little to zero dmg, LB is more viable, depends on the Boss tho but overall id say LB.
Will write a list wich boss wich talent later on. (with shiney bling bling and so on*)

*edit:



Xavius depends on wether u tank the add near the Boss or not, could swap Pyromaniac for Conflag(totally forgot to mention that while i was creating the pic )

[Universetube]

Ya I guess the pulls matter, so I wonder which talent is better for say DPS on Ursoc? Or general ST damage anyway

[exeed]

Hey, just updated my Post from earlier the day, thats my preferable Talents i use for Mythic Raiding These are the 3 Talents that are DPS wise changeable. I like Kindling more than CiS, it just feels better especially with Leg Bracer. The more Combustion the more pewpew :3

Edit: if u got any Questions why wich Talent for wich Boss, just let me know

[Spirillum]

For Mythic progression, I've used Conflag, unstable magic, and Kindling for every boss. Currently 5/7M.

You can pad with Living Bomb on some encounters, but IMO the single target loss is too much to sacrifice for progression. You could make the argument for M Dragons, but Nythendra, Elerethe, Ursoc, Il'Gynoth, Cenarius, and Xavius are all priority target encounters.

For maximizing damage you could benefit from LB, but make sure it's what your raid needs and not just padding.

[Woke]

For Mythic progression, I've used Conflag, unstable magic, and Kindling for every boss. Currently 5/7M.

You can pad with Living Bomb on some encounters, but IMO the single target loss is too much to sacrifice for progression. You could make the argument for M Dragons, but Nythendra, Elerethe, Ursoc, Il'Gynoth, Cenarius, and Xavius are all priority target encounters.

For maximizing damage you could benefit from LB, but make sure it's what your raid needs and not just padding.

I disagree. You should be running Living Bomb for Elerethe and Il'Gynoth, Dragons, and Xavius in mythic progression. period.

It is not padding if you can cast 1 living bomb on a spider on Elerethe and it spreads and helps those die faster. That means your other dps can get back on the boss much faster, which means you can put more dps into the boss.

On Il'Gynoth, the ability for living bomb to spread to the adds is huge for killing the globules super fast, something you need to do.

On Dragons, you stack for the spirits and Living bomb can do 20-30million damage throughout the encounter easily and helps kill those 8million hp spirits faster, allowing people to get back onto the dragons faster.

On Xavius, living bomb is invaluable in helping spread damage and kill excess adds in phase 3. You getting an extra 1% on a priority add does not outweigh you getting an extra 5% on extra adds that die out faster and cause less damage to raid in phase 3.

Basically, what I am saying is while there are extreme examples of padding, the vast majority of the time it is extremely useful to your raid environment and progression as a whole. Do not run Unstable Magic on the bosses mentioned because of your 1% priority damage increase. The benefits and aid Living Bomb provide far outweigh that 1% damage. BIG TIME.

[exeed]

As i wrote, unstable magic does little to no dmg, like 0.2%...

[Spirillum]

snip.

I'm on my phone so for brevity I'll touch exclusively on Il'Gynoth.

First, UM is closer to 2% single target and its damage is always meaningful.

Dominator Tentacles are spread too far apart to benefit from LB. Horrors are ST. Corruptors die before LB can detonate (assuming they're stacked), and the globs are only AoE'd twice. In both instances they're the only target alive and they too often die before LB could do meaningful damage (it pads as they stay up at 1% while they detonate).

It's not a dps race to get those 8 globs down so long as they die before the Death Blossom and the Deathglare is interrupted. In any case, it certainly never felt like our raid needed LB for those moments. More helpful, in fact, was sitting in an Ice Block in SLT.

Aside from the 8-glob healer CD group the rest are single targetted in a controlled manner. A three-stack could (and does) wipe your raid during progression.

And last of course is the boss himself. The eyestalks are too spread, so no benefit. We beat the dps check by about 5 seconds, but if you had a raider down or had to kill an add outside before going in that 2% could feasibly be the difference between a kill and a wipe.

Your damage can be higher, feasibly, and certainly if you're applying liberally to blobs throughout. It comes at the price of maximizing damage during the DPS checks that matter most (second P1 dominators and boss), and yet is more potential damage overall. That's my definition of padding.

I may have to agree to disagree with you on this one.

[exeed]

Sry i have to tell u, but i rarely see anyone using UM at any boss at all, even on the likes of Ursoc, and it still does like 0.2- MAXIMUM 1% dmg at all. And itll never ever do 1% on ilgynoth burst phase. Ur wrong.

[Spirillum]

Sry i have to tell u, but i rarely see anyone using UM at any boss at all, even on the likes of Ursoc, and it still does like 0.2- MAXIMUM 1% dmg at all. And itll never ever do 1% on ilgynoth burst phase. Ur wrong.

My UM on Ursoc was 1.6% and on the burst phase on Il'Gynoth was 1.1% (boss damage only).

Even if it was half this value, I'm not convinced that sacrificing this meaningful damage would benefit progression.


On an unrelated note, this is a forum where mages come to help other mages. That was certainly my intent. Let's curb the "ur wrong" addendums from our posts. That does nothing to promote or further what should otherwise be a beneficial discussion for the community.

[Dreamstreak]

Sry i have to tell u, but i rarely see anyone using UM at any boss at all, even on the likes of Ursoc, and it still does like 0.2- MAXIMUM 1% dmg at all. And itll never ever do 1% on ilgynoth burst phase. Ur wrong.

Nope, he is not. I don't know why you're saying something like this, without any proof at all.
If you go by Logs, the Top Talents for Nythendra, Ursoc, Cenarius and Xavius are with UM, and not LB.
On Il'gynoth, Elerethe Renferal and Dragons it's LB.

Reason for this it's 2-3% Singletarget Dmg and in most cases where you want to have priority damage it's better then LB.

On Il'gynoth I use LB just for the Cluster of globules after defeating 2 Dominator Tentacle at the start of Phase 1, then almost never again, unless I can spread it on Deathglare/Corruptor Tentacles, because if the globues die to fast thanks to LB it's missing damage on the Eye of Il'gynoth.

For Dragons it's great to use on the spirits.

For Xavius, I can see the use of LB, but I still prefer UM.

So don't state things, that are not true. Even if you go by Lexi (Method's Firemage) he will use UM almost every fight, except Il'gynoth. He stated it on his stream, aswell in his Guide on the Method Forum.

[exeed]

I didnt say UM isnt better pure single target, i just said its not good either, as u can see in my list above, i use UM on that encounters as well, cuz single target, i just say its not worth taking at ilgynoth cuz it rarely does 2% dmg in a fight overall, so itll never ever do 2% on heart alone. Check warcraflogs top rankings, almost noone of these guys has UM.

Edit: i misread, they use UM, it still does about 1-2% Dmg at max. Unless ur critchance is complete shit so u have to spam FB.

I dont state things that arent true, im 100% right still.

[Stauros]

I didnt say UM isnt better pure single target, i just said its not good either, as u can see in my list above, i use UM on that encounters as well, cuz single target, i just say its not worth taking at ilgynoth cuz it rarely does 2% dmg in a fight overall, so itll never ever do 2% on heart alone. Check warcraflogs top rankings, almost noone of these guys has UM.

I dont state things that arent true, im 100% right still.

Stop moving the goal posts. Your exact quote is that it would never do even 1% on the heart. You didn't say 2%. And he said he did 1.1% with UM.

[exeed]

Let me show u how bad UM is:

2minute 42 Seconds pure singletarget Patchwork


1minute 55seconds Fireball Spam



So even in a PURE singletarget, without moving, patchwork pure rotation fight. Um sucks dick and does ALMOST 1% Dmg so yeah NO it will never deal 1% on Heart alone. Case Closed.

[Dreamstreak]

Let's make one try baseline, because that's how statistics work.
You can say whatever you want, and pick whatever you want, that's fine. But if somebody asks which Talents to use, don't tell him and other that your prefered talentchoice is the best.
UM is still good for 4/7 of the fights in EN, maybe more. Depends on what the raid needs you to do.

[exeed]

I did never ever say my Choice is the best, i just wanted to Show, that UM does almost no dmg, as i wrote in my first Post as well, if u would read my FIRST post, where i even showed i use UM myself on most of the encounters, cuz im not that ''oh lets push dps'' guy, cuz its still better in pure single target environment and 1-2 Target Fights. Its just not true, UM will do 2% dmg on Heart burst phase itself, theres zero Chance this will happen in around 30s, if played proper fire.

[exeed]

UM is still good for 4/7 of the fights in EN, maybe more. Depends on what the raid needs you to do.

And i totally agree with that one, and again, i never said UM is bad at every encounter ost. I just said UM is better Single but still bad as a talent overall, it just proccs of FB wich, if the Crit rate isnt too bad, will cast rarely at all.

[Cellindre]

One point people aren't mentioning is the fact that UM is free damage where as LB costs a gcd. Any time spent using LB is time you could be using to get more Hot Streaks and building bigger ignites.

[Curnivore]

I doubt Elerethe should get Living Bomb. Those adds are minor parts of the fight. Let alone Ignite alone and other similar effects of other players can almost automatically kill them sometimes.

[skelzer]

I doubt Elerethe should get Living Bomb. Those adds are minor parts of the fight. Let alone Ignite alone and other similar effects of other players can almost automatically kill them sometimes.

I'd say it depends a lot on your raid setup, on mythic the little buggers are really dangerous, and any help on bringing them down fast is useful.

In any other boss, I think LB just helps with meter padding.