Results on 7.1 fire relics
Results on 7.1 fire relics
These are done on the default T19H profile, with the difference that it's on Kindling instead of Cinderstorm since that's what most are doing though I doubt the results would be different. This is a basic test of switching out only one relic for another of the same ilevel (the default profile runs 3 pyro dmg relics so only the 1st pyro relic was swapped).
The error is ~196DPS which means the first positions are within error. I will run them later on a non-potato PC.
I may add more tests later if needed on +5/+10/+15 ilevels of the relic being swapped, but it's more work since I currently force the ilevel of the weapon and each +5 on a relic does not seem to give exactly the same ilevel to the weapon each time, and to do it properly I'd need to use the right relic bonus ids.
Update: The order is similar on 250,000 iterations. With ~62 DPS error, the first two are practically identical in rank.
Update: I figured we can run +1/+2/+3/+0 on weapon ilevel (and not relic ilevel) since there is a good chance the +ilevel for weapon shown on the tooltip is an integer and sometimes that jumps from +1 to +2 per 5 ilevels of relic.
Error is ~120DPS
update: 2 target, ~300DPS error:
4 target, ~500DPS error:
The error is ~196DPS which means the first positions are within error. I will run them later on a non-potato PC.
I may add more tests later if needed on +5/+10/+15 ilevels of the relic being swapped, but it's more work since I currently force the ilevel of the weapon and each +5 on a relic does not seem to give exactly the same ilevel to the weapon each time, and to do it properly I'd need to use the right relic bonus ids.
Update: The order is similar on 250,000 iterations. With ~62 DPS error, the first two are practically identical in rank.
Update: I figured we can run +1/+2/+3/+0 on weapon ilevel (and not relic ilevel) since there is a good chance the +ilevel for weapon shown on the tooltip is an integer and sometimes that jumps from +1 to +2 per 5 ilevels of relic.
Error is ~120DPS
update: 2 target, ~300DPS error:
4 target, ~500DPS error:
Last edited by Curnivore on Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:00 pm, edited 7 times in total.
Re: Basic results on 7.1 relics
since you have already a batch sim set up, could you possibly run them with the legendary bracers equipped? (just the first three) i'd wager there might be some shuffeling around going on (namely pyro > ignite > fb casttime)
Re: Basic results on 7.1 relics
There is a chance the +weapon ilevel relics show on the tooltip is an integer which means it'd be unreliable to make simple guides of "replace at +5 ilevels of relic" etc. because sometimes +5 ilevels of relics make a jump from +1 weapon ilevel to +2.
The error is ~235 DPS.
Yes, sure, I'll run them on 25K iterations.since you have already a batch sim set up, could you possibly run them with the legendary bracers equipped? (just the first three) i'd wager there might be some shuffeling around going on (namely pyro > ignite > fb casttime)
The error is ~235 DPS.
Re: Basic results on 7.1 relics
first of all - how the profile made a dps-jump of 30k... ridiculous -.-
thanks for running the numbers
so.. to sum this all up:
pyro > fb cast > ignite > crit dmg for normal profile
pyro > ignite > crit dmg > fb cast for bracer equiped
this makes me wonder if in terms of potential-maximization and versatility one should consider the ignite relics the best choice regardless of setup. there are enough fights where ignite makes up a larger portion of our dps than even pyroblast (even with bracers) and on those fights the ignite relic will probably outshine every other by a huge margin
something like:
no bracers -> ignite = pyro > fbcast
bracers -> ignite = pyro > crit dmg
also considering the ilvl of our weapon increases it's int, which scales exponentially, i'd wager to assume the coice of minor trait for the relic will be inconsequential once you hit ilvl900+
thanks for running the numbers
so.. to sum this all up:
pyro > fb cast > ignite > crit dmg for normal profile
pyro > ignite > crit dmg > fb cast for bracer equiped
this makes me wonder if in terms of potential-maximization and versatility one should consider the ignite relics the best choice regardless of setup. there are enough fights where ignite makes up a larger portion of our dps than even pyroblast (even with bracers) and on those fights the ignite relic will probably outshine every other by a huge margin
something like:
no bracers -> ignite = pyro > fbcast
bracers -> ignite = pyro > crit dmg
also considering the ilvl of our weapon increases it's int, which scales exponentially, i'd wager to assume the coice of minor trait for the relic will be inconsequential once you hit ilvl900+
Re: Basic results on 7.1 relics
I figured we can run +1/+2/+3/+0 on weapon ilevel (and not relic ilevel) since there is a good chance the +ilevel for weapon shown on the tooltip is an integer and sometimes that jumps from +1 to +2 per 5 ilevels of relic.
Error is ~195DPS
On 120 DPS error:
Error is ~195DPS
On 120 DPS error:
Re: Basic results on 7.1 relics
Whatever way int scales, wouldn't a flat percentage increase on basic spells be always an important increase?considering the ilvl of our weapon increases it's int, which scales exponentially, i'd wager to assume the coice of minor trait for the relic will be inconsequential once you hit ilvl900+
Re: Basic results on 7.1 relics
So correct me if I'm wrong but if all of the relics are worth approximately the same at the same ilvl then there is no longer a "pyro = 15 ilvl" and you should take the highest ilvl relic you can get. Then if you have two relics which are the same ilvl then pryo is clearly the best? Sorry if I'm reading this wrong.
Re: Basic results on 7.1 relics
I'm not sure you could say pyro is clearly best. They're very close, and on cleave figets ignite may pull ahead, and on heavy movement fights FB cast might be better for the quicker casts. Always keep in mind the sims we have are basically attacking a dummy.So correct me if I'm wrong but if all of the relics are worth approximately the same at the same ilvl then there is no longer a "pyro = 15 ilvl" and you should take the highest ilvl relic you can get. Then if you have two relics which are the same ilvl then pryo is clearly the best? Sorry if I'm reading this wrong.
Re: Basic results on 7.1 relics
I don't see them being equal. e.g. a defensive that gives +2 weapon ilevel is worse than some relics that give only +1 or some that even give nothing extra. I should clarify something here again. Some relics give instead of only +1 weapon ilevel, +2 weapon ilevels every 5 ilevels of relic. For example 870 to 875 seems to go from +49 to +51 weapon instead of +50. Since there is a good change that is actually an integer addition, we can't just say "replace at +5 relic ilevel" etc. so it might be best to talk only about "+weapon" additions. I've talked about it a bit at the IRC channel of simc and it seems to be the case unless someone has an objection and it's a fractional addition to weapon level.So correct me if I'm wrong but if all of the relics are worth approximately the same at the same ilvl then there is no longer a "pyro = 15 ilvl"
Re: Basic results on 7.1 relics
Could you sim it with 2, 3, 6 targets or link your simcraft config? I have strong feeling that ignite relics will be op on that fights
- Devilsfury
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:15 pm
Re: Basic results on 7.1 relics
So basicly what i get from this, is that ilvl is key and on same ilvl we look what trait is better but it's such a small difference that we don't pick an 850 pyro relic over a 865 molten armor relic anymore right?
Re: Basic results on 7.1 relics
A 850 relic does +43 weapon level if we look at the tooltip. 865 does +48 which is a +5 increase in weapon level. A +3 defensive seems to beat all +0 relics here so yes, it would be better on the defensive of +48 instead of any on +43.we don't pick an 850 pyro relic over a 865 molten armor relic anymore right?
Re: Basic results on 7.1 relics
I'll do 2 and 4 since I don't have a lot of (cpu) time.Could you sim it with 2, 3, 6 targets or link your simcraft config? I have strong feeling that ignite relics will be op on that fights
2 target, ~300DPS error:
I guess you're right, already ignite seems higher on 2 patchwerks
hrm, interesting that fireball cast time remains strong.
4 target, ~500DPS error:
Re: Basic results on 7.1 relics
no that's the misconception, percentage increase is a lineare increase (x*1,y) while each ilvl increases the amount of int exponentially (e^ilvl) so a percentage boost will always stay the same but when you increase the ilvl from 900 too 901 its a much higher gain than for example from 850 to 851, it's a static gain yes, but the gain per ilvl increases exponentially the higher the "base" ilvl already isWhatever way int scales, wouldn't a flat percentage increase on basic spells be always an important increase?considering the ilvl of our weapon increases it's int, which scales exponentially, i'd wager to assume the coice of minor trait for the relic will be inconsequential once you hit ilvl900+
Re: Basic results on 7.1 relics
Can you give me your simcraft config? I'm interested in that fireball cast timeI guess you're right, already ignite seems higher on 2 patchwerks
hrm, interesting that fireball cast time remains strong.
Anyway i guess it is better to stack ignite instead of pyroblast. But i'm interested how it is changed with the bracers
Re: Basic results on 7.1 relics
I guess you exaggerate that effect on the microcosm of an individual upgrade because a trait-upgrade at 900 ilevel will build upon all the exponential (as you claim) ilevel-upgrades that happened before it and only a potential addition of 1 or 2 ilevel-upgrades that happens next with a relic will have a chance to trample a trait-upgrade with an effect of that sort.no that's the misconception, percentage increase is a lineare increase (x*1,y) while each ilvl increases the amount of int exponentially (e^ilvl) so a percentage boost will always stay the same but when you increase the ilvl from 900 too 901 its a much higher gain than for example from 850 to 851, it's a static gain yes, but the gain per ilvl increases exponentially the higher the "base" ilvl already isWhatever way int scales, wouldn't a flat percentage increase on basic spells be always an important increase?considering the ilvl of our weapon increases it's int, which scales exponentially, i'd wager to assume the coice of minor trait for the relic will be inconsequential once you hit ilvl900+
Re: Basic results on 7.1 relics
It might be best to give you the base I worked with. I don't have the originals on this PC anyway.Can you give me your simcraft config?
Code: Select all
mage="pyro dmg +0"
level=110
race=troll
role=spell
position=back
talents=1222121
artifact=54:0:0:0:0:748:1:749:3:750:3:751:6:752:3:754:3:755:3:756:3:758:1:759:1:762:1:763:1:1340:1
spec=fire
head=collar_of_enclosure,id=134424,bonus_id=1727/1517
neck=chain_of_the_underking,id=134495,bonus_id=1727/1517,enchant=mark_of_the_hidden_satyr
shoulders=amice_of_the_unfurling_tempest,id=134432,bonus_id=1727/1517
back=cloak_of_manaspun_silk,id=134410,bonus_id=1727/1517,enchant=binding_of_intellect
chest=tunic_of_smoldering_ire,id=137352,bonus_id=1727/1517
wrists=harrowing_soulspun_bracers,id=134437,bonus_id=1727/1517
hands=gloves_of_unseen_evil,id=137506,bonus_id=1727/1517
waist=timebreached_waistband,id=137413,bonus_id=1727/1517
legs=legwraps_of_rampant_turmoil,id=137453,bonus_id=1727/1517
feet=paranoid_sprinters,id=137319,bonus_id=1727/1517
finger1=gnawed_thumb_ring,id=134526,bonus_id=1727/1517,enchant=binding_of_critical_strike
finger2=band_of_callous_dominance,id=134528,bonus_id=1727/1517,enchant=binding_of_critical_strike
trinket1=naraxas_spiked_tongue,id=137349,bonus_id=1727/1517
trinket2=wriggling_sinew,id=139326,bonus_id=1805
main_hand=felomelorn,id=128820,ilevel=894
off_hand=heart_of_the_phoenix,id=133959
For example you can reduce pyro (ID 751, the rest are below) from 6 to 5, then increase another to 4 from 3 for the same ilevel of weapon, or add a level to weapon and turn it to 895 from 894.
Code: Select all
#pyro dmg 751
#ignite dmg 755
#fireball dmg 754
#defensive 756
#fire crit dmg 752
#fireball cast time 749
#fire blast dmg 750
update: full example:
Code: Select all
mage="pyro dmg +0"
level=110
race=troll
role=spell
position=back
talents=1222121
artifact=54:0:0:0:0:748:1:749:3:750:3:751:6:752:3:754:3:755:3:756:3:758:1:759:1:762:1:763:1:1340:1
spec=fire
head=collar_of_enclosure,id=134424,bonus_id=1727/1517
neck=chain_of_the_underking,id=134495,bonus_id=1727/1517,enchant=mark_of_the_hidden_satyr
shoulders=amice_of_the_unfurling_tempest,id=134432,bonus_id=1727/1517
back=cloak_of_manaspun_silk,id=134410,bonus_id=1727/1517,enchant=binding_of_intellect
chest=tunic_of_smoldering_ire,id=137352,bonus_id=1727/1517
wrists=harrowing_soulspun_bracers,id=134437,bonus_id=1727/1517
hands=gloves_of_unseen_evil,id=137506,bonus_id=1727/1517
waist=timebreached_waistband,id=137413,bonus_id=1727/1517
legs=legwraps_of_rampant_turmoil,id=137453,bonus_id=1727/1517
feet=paranoid_sprinters,id=137319,bonus_id=1727/1517
finger1=gnawed_thumb_ring,id=134526,bonus_id=1727/1517,enchant=binding_of_critical_strike
finger2=band_of_callous_dominance,id=134528,bonus_id=1727/1517,enchant=binding_of_critical_strike
trinket1=naraxas_spiked_tongue,id=137349,bonus_id=1727/1517
trinket2=wriggling_sinew,id=139326,bonus_id=1805
main_hand=felomelorn,id=128820,ilevel=894
off_hand=heart_of_the_phoenix,id=133959
copy="fireball dmg +0"
artifact=54:0:0:0:0:748:1:749:3:750:3:751:5:752:3:754:4:755:3:756:3:758:1:759:1:762:1:763:1:1340:1
main_hand=felomelorn,id=128820,ilevel=894
copy="fireball dmg +2"
artifact=54:0:0:0:0:748:1:749:3:750:3:751:5:752:3:754:4:755:3:756:3:758:1:759:1:762:1:763:1:1340:1
main_hand=felomelorn,id=128820,ilevel=896
#pyro dmg 751
#ignite dmg 755
#fireball dmg 754
#defensive 756
#fire crit dmg 752
#fireball cast time 749
#fire blast dmg 750
- magictricks
- Posts: 190
- Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:15 am
Re: Results on 7.1 fire relics
Ok so if i am reading this correctly a 885 blink/molten relic is basically the same as a 875 Fire Blast relic?,These are done on the default T19H profile, with the differ...............
Re: Results on 7.1 fire relics
I don't know. Let's see. An 885 is +53 weapon levels; an 875 is +51 so the difference is -2 (it's not always the same every 10 relic levels).Ok so if i am reading this correctly a 885 blink/molten relic is basically the same as a 875 Fire Blast relic?,These are done on the default T19H profile, with the differ...............
On these charts, a defensive at +2 is 431 DPS better at single target within an error of 120 DPS.
Re: Results on 7.1 fire relics
I don't know. Let's see. An 885 is +53 weapon levels; an 875 is +51 so the difference is -2 (it's not always the same every 10 relic levels).Ok so if i am reading this correctly a 885 blink/molten relic is basically the same as a 875 Fire Blast relic?,These are done on the default T19H profile, with the differ...............
On these charts, a defensive at +2 is 431 DPS better at single target within an error of 120 DPS.
Great stuff Curnivore. I have a similar question as above... please help me with the math. An 880 Defensive at +52 levels vs an 865 FB cast time at +48 levels. So that's a +4 lvl difference, and the defensive will beat all DPS relics 4 levels under it? (even will beat everything 3 lvls under it?)
TL;DR: an 880 defensive beats any 865 relic?
Just want to ensure I'm reading this right. Thx!
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests