No Fire Mage in Top DPS of ToV

[Muffelmage]

I folks, I just observed on warcraftlogs that there is not a single Firemage in the Top 500 DPS of the Odyn encounter. The first two I found just had the BiS Legis:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/12#boss=1958

Lets say it is a heavy dot based encounter and cleave does not apply due to the spredding. Lets look into the 2nd Boss:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/12#boss=1962

Its a single target burst heavy encounter, so I would say mages could shine here. Even when there is no cleave we are masters in burst iterations.

I get the impression that fire is kinda dead regarding DPS in hero/mythic progress. You need BiS legis to even have a chance to do significant high dmg on progress niveau. Do I miss something out or what is your view on this?

Thank & BR

[Frantik]

Well it is just two-three days the raid is out ..Maybe we should wait for the whole week or even the second before jumping to conclusions

[Magecharm]

Fire mages arent the best at target switching my friend, alot of it in the odyn encounter. Not to mention p3 you outrange the boss if your putting tornadoes far away to properly maximize space. There still solid so im not worried about it.

[Unreal]

No idea what you were expecting, mages have never been good in single target encounters during this addon. Also, there are about 2400 mage parses so far. That's nearly as many as there are cenarius mythic parses, it's already quite representative of the future performance of mages during these encounters.

[Glynny_]

The thing with the Odyn fight is many classes excel at it, where mages do not. The small adds are spread out around 5 corners of the room making it impossible to ignite cleave, shadow priest can multi dot, warlocks can chaos bolt etc. and if most guilds did our tactic, melee just nuke the boss 100% of the time.

Look at other fights where mages are more competitive (in terms of fight mechanics benefiting mages). Guarm, there are a few mages in the top 500 surrounded by a bunch of shadow priests and other good single target classes.

Helya, mages and hunters are all over this fight because it suits mages very well, a lot of cleave and AoE.

Mages are not destroying on one encounter in this raid, deal with it. It doesn't mean they're bad they're just not suitable for that fight compare to other classes.

[Bellafron]

I agree with the posts above, this encounter really isn't built for us. The lack of AoE and cleave really kills, the only time I really ever get a chance for either is when the adds are positioned on either Heimdall,Hyrja, or Odyn. So its one fight that really doesn't go with our skill set, meh

[Rydis]

yeah. This is a bad boss for us. The most movement heavy fight so far, pure ST damage and lots of add switches so ignites fall off.

Im not the best mage but.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Gc ... e&fight=18" target="_blank
I can do top 97% for my ilevel, 300k + on most bosses in EM.

I struggle to maintain 200-220k on Odyn.

[Mage]

I did 370k on Odyn but was beaten because yes, the fight is bad for fire.

Second boss is good for ranged though, right? ALmost constant boss uptime, melee have to move to front for breaths, can't attack at all during charges etc. It is pretty well reflected in logs:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics ... fficulty=4" target="_blank

In blizzard's own words - "It's OK if melee are a little stornger in 5mans and ranged a little stronger in raids".

[Rydis]

I did 370k on Odyn but was beaten because yes, the fight is bad for fire.

Second boss is good for ranged though, right? ALmost constant boss uptime, melee have to move to front for breaths, can't attack at all during charges etc. It is pretty well reflected in logs:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics ... fficulty=4" target="_blank

In blizzard's own words - "It's OK if melee are a little stornger in 5mans and ranged a little stronger in raids".

melee are stronger overall. Raids and dungeons

[Unreal]

And reasonably so, because melees lose uptime on a Boss whenever there is heavy movement or target switching involved.

[Rydis]

And reasonably so, because melees lose uptime on a Boss whenever there is heavy movement or target switching involved.

Depends on the type of movement. Range can suffer heavily from movement, way more than melee.

Try and sim/parse out a fire mage..vs someone like a Paladin.

The difference between Patchwork/Lightmovement/Heavymovement shows how much more movement affects range over melee.

edit: though the difference isn't huge, most of movement mechanics favor melee, because its usually moving a boss, not switching to a new add farther away. Those fights like ursoc, Dragons, Odyn, Cenarius (last phase) favor melee way more than range. While a fight like..Xavius would favor range better (depending on whos in dream second) and Nythandra would favor range because you can dps usually before dropping more easily. Just a lot more fights favor melee movement than range with how mechanics usually are.

using the top 4 people in my guild, going from no movement to light movement was ~ 4% loss on both melee and range. Going from no movement to heavy movement, was about 21% loss for melee & a 23% loss for range.

[Mage]

Meanwhile, every single class in the game has a spec outperforming fire on Odyn.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics ... dataset=90" target="_blank

Get your bench pillows ready boys.

[Xidian]

I feel like Blizzard are really far behind on Fire since the Pyro nerf they feel very in line probably in the top third for casters but not out in front or anything.

I don't understand where they are getting this 'still very strong' from.

When the nerfs come in 7.1.5 it's going to be very sad times.

[Rydis]

especially when class such as paladins which were fine, kept getting buffed.

Its sad to see me at 863 IL pulling ~300k on most, 220k on odyn, and a similar paladin pulling 390-420k

[Komma]

The last 3 days have not seen anything of value added to this thread, and it is now nothing but whining.

Locked.