Ever a point where Scorch > Fireball?

[Mojah]

Hey, Im not much of a theorycrafter but I am using scorch instead of fireball when I dont have haste proccs. Mostly because I like the playstyle better and it has been working pretty good. I dont have any numbers or so to back up that its better.

I am focusing heavly at keeping the 2 set up so even If I get a meta and I see I can keep up with fireball I do scorch instead.

However I am trying to do fireball when I have meta up.(I wanna go lower haste, but cant since I dont have the gear for it)

[Figdan]

" i dont have any numbers to back up that its better, but im rank 1 proraiders"

[Mojah]

" i dont have any numbers to back up that its better, but im rank 1 proraiders"

It doenst matter if I am rank 1, maybe I could do even better with using fireball, but personally I just enjoy the playslyle better and casting 1,9 sec fireball just feel clunky to me.

Latetly I have been trying to squeeze in more fireballs when I get a meta proccs, just like Hotpots suggested earlier in this post

[Maauru]

However I am trying to do fireball when I have meta up.(I wanna go lower haste, but cant since I dont have the gear for it)

I want to try Scorch build.
Is there point to go as low as possible with Haste or certain level should still be kept?

If I put really low weight on Haste I can drop down to 4963 Haste rating and with such weight actually AMR advice me to replace also all Expertize+Crit gems to Intellect+Crit gems (I still keep same level of crit).

So, should I go with Haste as low as possible or to go to certain low break point or as low as possible until point my EXP+CRIT gems "should not" be replaced by INT+CRIT ?

[Kver]

A scorch build would basically be somewhere around 9500 haste with the rest in crit > mastery I suppose. If your haste is too low your pyroblasts are going to be awful too, and you'll never keep up 2 piece at all.

[Trustbucket]

" i dont have any numbers to back up that its better, but im rank 1 proraiders"

He was talking about numbers between the two builds, not between him and other mages. Rank 1 proraiders is rarely the "best" build and the "best" player.

[Dutchmagoz]

So I've done a bit of dummy testing. This was without 5% raid buff, so keep that in mind.

Due to my gear I could only drop as low as 8.7k haste, however, at this point scorch still had no real issues keeping 2pc up, and this was only with my own buffs. With the newly found ignite trick, and using a scorch build, I can see dropping to like 7.5k haste a pretty sensible number. Depending on your latency and skill/reaction time, you may want to go higher. It depends on a lot on factors like your crit rating, latency, reaction time, Rng, kill speeds etc, but I would advice a minimum of 7.5k and then slowly gaining more haste until you feel comfortable keeping a pretty high (>40%) 5 stack uptime on 2pc. Whether scorch build is higher than fireball build...I don't know, but scorch does have a higher max dps if you get very good RNG. (Imagine 100% crit fireball vs scorch, scorch would easily win then)

Scorch build probably favors going 2pc instead of 4pc as well. Don't have any maths to back it up though, but I feel like the extra stats from 2 more WF items and the relatively lower casts of IB (comparing IB ratio to fireball/scorch) will devalue 4pc for a scorch build compared to fireball build.

[Wilderness]

I decided to try a scorch build on our Garrosh kill last night. I really enjoyed it. Previously I'd tried as low as 5.5k haste (just on dummies and in a flex run) and it felt kind of awkward to me but last night I went with about 8.2k I believe (armory hasn't updated) and it seemed very smooth. I ended up with a personal best on the kill, but there are several other factors that could/did impact that which had nothing to do with scorch - lately we've been slow on dps and having to afk 2nd intermission, which we didn't last night, so I'm comparing it to logs from several weeks ago and I've gotten at least an upgrade or two since then. I occasionally have to help with engineer duty as well, which I didn't last night either.

I also didn't play it very well - I died near the end of P3 and then forgot to re-lust for myself in P4 until right before I hit my combustion, so that was a wasted GCD in the midst of trying to build ignite. Tons of room for improvement, but I had a lot of fun with it. I'm definitely going to be using this going forward and seeing how the next week or two goes.