Armor on pull

[Idiotbox]

First post on the forums! First i would like to say hello to everyone and thanks ahead of time for reading.

I came back to the game about 3 months ago now and got back into raiding. I'm just now finally getting close to bis and looking to start getting some parses again.

I am curious to know what the general consensus (or even just each individual opinion) is on using mage armor on the pull and then using the post AT pom to switch back to molten.

In my practice with it, which is very little practice, i feel that the mage armor pull is only worth it on multi-target pulls and i'm wondering if i'm missing something.

Thanks again for reading and i look forward to replies ^.^

[Idiotbox]

I forgot to mention that i'm also wondering if there has been any thoughts on mage armor for the entire pull after certain gear levels on even single target fights.

my damage has been improving with my gear and i'm getting back to the level of play that i used to be, but for once i am uncertain about how to allocate my stats due to sims telling me mastery>crit (which i have a hard time believing)

[Dutchmagoz]

Mage armor on the pull is a definite theoretical single target DPS increase. In practice, it can be messed up very easily, since you'll want to use molten armor right before you combust, which is on the gcd, and thus spells mid air will still hit the boss, causing in a lowered ignite often.

It's quite risky, and I wouldn't advice it on any progress boss.

Mage armor for the rest of the pull is a DPS loss.

[Idiotbox]

Thanks for the quick reply!

My guild has been on farm for some time now, so it's really just for fun and science (since before i came back to the game) =P

So, what you're saying is that if i PoM molten armor while my last pyro is in the air, that the pyro will have the ignite value determined when it hits instead of when i casted it?

I re-read what you had said and realized that you were just referring to the accuracy/timing of combusting with the ignite value you want being delayed by using a gcd to put molten armor up. To that regard, wouldn't that be inconsequential considering that combustion is off the global and you can actually macro molten with combustion to avoid missing a good ignite?

[Dutchmagoz]

Let's put it like this:

You land a pyro, let's say, the 5th pyro in the chain.
Your 6th pyro is mid air, while it's mid air, your 5th one landed and you notice you got an insanely big ignite.
You want to combust, but first, you need to wait for your gcd from the 6th pyro to be finished before you can POM molten armor -> combust. While waiting for this gcd to be over, your 6th pyro landed, lowering your ignite.

This is only an issue when you're not in melee range.

You can ofcource combustion first, then then POM -> molten armor, but this way combustion is missing out on 5% crit.

[Blugatti]

I've just been keeping it on the entire fight since my guild has crazy kill times. seems to work out really well

[Idiotbox]

you've seen a dps gain on single target with mage armor for entire pulls? interesting O.O

[Idiotbox]

with that in mind, that would mean that reforging/regemming 3000 of your crit rating into mastery rating and using molten armor would yield the exact same results. This is considering the fact that molten armor is 5% crit (3000 crit rating) and mage armor is 3000 mastery rating.

do you really feel that you value mastery as much as crit outside of combustion?

[Blugatti]

tbh, im not a very big theorycrafter or anything like that, I hate hate hate dealing with numbers. I just try different things and I stick with the ones that I have the best results with.
With that being said, the difference between the two are extremely marginal. When you go for mage armor full-time you're depending on more RNG but it synergizes better with how I utilize my trinket procs and at this point in the expansion thats why I like it, and also the mages that I have been "tutoring" or whatever have also told me they are getting better results with mage armor ( of course there are other factors involved, trinket procs, etc).
But lets compare these two logs http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/com ... urce=230,6" target="_blank
Dabs:
43/52 pyro crits
20.8m Ignite
20.6m combustion
Blu:
41/49 pyro crits
25.7m Ignite
26.2m Combustion
Crit just doesn't seem that attractive to me considering our uptimes on trinket procs + sha buffs were EXTREMELY similar yet the difference in pyros is so small. And if you look at the dps graph, its very back and forth, sometimes he pulls ahead by a small margin and sometimes I pull ahead so yeah I think outside of the opener mage armor is still competitive.

I personally think you should try both, and see what gives you the best results

[Idiotbox]

gotcha ^.^

also curious about if you're running the amount of haste on your armory during raid. sub 9k is something i haven't seen/heard much about.

[Blugatti]

yeah, i am. it doesn't feel clunky, but what i still suggest is if youre trying a new build do a quick LFR or flex just to get used to it really quick

[Idiotbox]

like i said in my first post, i really just came back to the game a couple of months ago, so i'm just now getting to gear levels that i can start playing around with different reforges and things like that. i pretty much feel like any amount of haste is fine as long as you have enough to weave 2 fireballs during the 5 seconds of the 2 piece buff. That way you don't end up gambling on too many pyros without having a HU proc at the same time and maximize 2 piece uptime.

Do you feel the same way?

[Blugatti]

hmm, I don't have a set rule to always weave in two fireballs. if i see the opportunity to do it, I will but there are times where you will only be able to fit in one fireball or even just a scorch in order to get a pyro off and keep your 2pc up.
if you ever want to talk ingame feel free to add me, blugatti#1559

[Idiotbox]

added.

I'm really hoping others can give some input on the topic of sustained mage armor as well as optimal haste values. i feel like the 2 piece giving 750 haste per stack really throws off reforging for any specific amounts of haste and it really turns into what haste reforge fits best for everything from 3-5 stacks of the 2 piece AND you have to factor in what buffs you have (lust/meta/zerking) with the 2250-3750 extra haste from stacks. then you factor in the mage armor vs molten armor and you have yourself a good basis for healthy debates on optimization =P

[Figdan]

I've had great results with leaving mage armor on the full fight duration as well. It really just depends on kill times and how close to BiS you are IMO. At full BiS, losing the crit from MA isnt really a huge deal, and as blugatti said, you can just let the huge combustions and ignites carry your damage with good utilization of trinket procs. I wouldn't recommend this to anyone not close to BiS, or with "slow" kill times.