6.0 fire

[Trustbucket]

Haven't played fire in a while and because of hit/ exp going to crit and recent arcane nerfs, I am looking to play fire for this week. I am behind on what are the best talents for level 75 and 90 currently and was wondering if someone could give me a tl:dr about the talent choices for ST, AoE, and cleave.

[Velerion]

This thread felt like a decent place to ask, is there any way to get MyBigIgnite working again after the patch?

[Dutchmagoz]

75: Single target UM and BW are practically equal.
3+ targets close to eachother living bomb wins.

90: Rune of power is the best theoretical DPS talent here. But it depends on the amount you have to re-cast it and move out of it. Take this on patchwerk fights. IF is a good alternative for RoP on high movement fights. Mirror images are very strong on fights that are between 2.30 and 3 minutes long. (Single target only)

[Dutchmagoz]

This thread felt like a decent place to ask, is there any way to get MyBigIgnite working again after the patch?

I don't use mybigignite, but if you're using weakauras, you can use this weakaura:

Code: Select all

dyupfaGis1LKsYOavDkOOxPsywQOClIe7Ie)sLOHrPJHQwMuQNPsY0ijUMkLTPkLVrrmoIiNJK07iPK7PIu7JivhKiLfsr6HQizIQiCrvPYgj4JQsvJKiPtcLwju1mjP4MerTtv4NuugkjLAPeHEkWuPWvvj1Cvr1Er(luyWkhMOwSuIhtktgQCzQ2Su8zcnAqPtd51QunBu52Gk7gLFdYWvLSCP65QQPl56QITte8DPKA8KuDEqX6vr08POA)IjEYGaicGLvEVrwZphRge7Fo4LZXHHaQ7yGLPHyExUCc8jqBfRIQk8eaocGJa4idcGd9FXjdJHRErGwPraTNFbbNHRErGMhMwHGyWJzwWNLLLXbPjZLHezOYZoD235CTcE(BNLDndvs7PldVEj3f9s)SmDSImu56NLXqCNLPlvPjrjlCTA0Xet1kl4ZYYYqnzirgQ8Sy(PZyiUScwNf8zzzzzzzzOMmKidvEM0ZABT2ScwNf8zzzzzzzzzzzzDVE6SmDZ1eeSwbbRvxrPHdcQdpsKHk)sER1EHYnmZuuY0VRh8zzzzzzzzo33rnzirgQ8mPRI1AZYkyDwWNLLLLLLLLLLL196PZY0nxtqqqqqWA1vuA4GG6WJezOYVK3ATxOCdZmfLm976bFwwwwwwwMZ9DutgsKHkpt6zVzT2ScwNf8zzzzzzzzzzzzDVE6SmDZ1eeeeUjjRvxrPHdcQdpsKHk)sER1EHYnmZuuY0VRh8zzzzzzzzo33d(SSSSSSSSSSSSUxpDwMU5AccccwR1QRO0Wbb1HhjYqLFjV1AVq5gMzkkz631d(SSSSSSSmNHl4ZYYYCgUG3z4iasdIrMsGgiwjWjl(jGzxBOgShVJavhjk6DYGa48wEAAmG5LtaPknjkzHRvdbyYW5FYGo4jawrgQCQiWddveOK7IEraOwZmJXbdzkve4xiT7WCINUCHGyuleawhjcBrcQATMWRA72MCtfEv5V6nQrkQOkb4GKXrgeOdX5KbbG7HRqKbvurGNVJbZLG3PwiWZ3X4)Y1itjW)LRrge4JyICoD0MkQiqdeRaOt60b)Beah6)ItggqjRD)tGw9jq3frqmdyE5eOC1lcGZ)Y1txUCQfc8lzT7)tbXkzedoNvea7ba7jEhbojeeC0HLaiCeaRidvEMHRErGwJWvWscMCfVKU6nt455BZBc)T2uJuurvci)uqKPeaXKG3)o1cbGXSMMVx0HuKKLaSh4m6irrV)PdEciJdhQqqmzomQosu07FYGkc8lzT7F1gcXkcyQzggMjzjI99s1GaLREDkioOozqh80bpD0Mo4PJROdE6qf6GNkQiGmzqaSImu5ealR8EJSMFowni2)CWlNJddbu3XaltdX8UC5urajqh8Q02sfra

It's a simple number showing you the ignite value.

In the future, we have a subforum for macros/addons etc http://altered-time.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=20" target="_blank

[Velerion]

Sorry my bad, perfect though!

[Blugatti]

good job tonight! XD

[Trustbucket]

good job tonight! XD

Yeah I didn't think I did badly, certainly didn't make gameplay mistakes but was trying the new talents gameplay and also had bad RNG and died to aoe damage most fights.

Not sure if UM just scales really badly with gear or anything like that because I had a good pull but my Um damage was 1/10 of my fire mage friend's lb damage, if I remember correctly. Also Blast wave seemed alright but it didn't seem to work out better than lb on any fight, still have single target fights to try like Thok and IJ.

[Trustbucket]

Did anyone test LB, UM, and BW extensively that would like to give some input on what you found?

[Velerion]

Well the comparison wouldn't just be UM to Lb would it? You have to take into consideration extra pyro, fireball and inferno blast dmg gained from GCD's not being wasted on LB no?

[Trustbucket]

Well the comparison wouldn't just be UM to Lb would it? You have to take into consideration extra pyro, fireball and inferno blast dmg gained from GCD's not being wasted on LB no?

ofc but what I was implying was the damage from living bomb exceeded the extra damage you could do with the total globals used on living bomb, if that makes sense.

[Sturmcantor]

good job tonight! XD

Yeah I didn't think I did badly, certainly didn't make gameplay mistakes but was trying the new talents gameplay and also had bad RNG and died to aoe damage most fights.

Not sure if UM just scales really badly with gear or anything like that because I had a good pull but my Um damage was 1/10 of my fire mage friend's lb damage, if I remember correctly. Also Blast wave seemed alright but it didn't seem to work out better than lb on any fight, still have single target fights to try like Thok and IJ.

If your UM was 1/10 of someone's LB damage, they either massively outgeared you, or it was a heavy AoE pull, or you had worse activity time, or some combination of the above.

Edit: For reference, 1 cast of LB on a single target for me does slightly more damage than 1 cast of Fireball + it's Ignite, but doesn't have the ability to proc Pyroblasts vs being a shorter cast.

[wihajster]

During opener with all luck, is 3 pyroblasts max what we can get?

[Komma]

Edit: For reference, 1 cast of LB on a single target for me does slightly more damage than 1 cast of Fireball + it's Ignite, but doesn't have the ability to proc Pyroblasts vs being a shorter cast.

Let me break this down since it's being discussed so often. How do UM and LB measure up on single target, Iron Juggernaut style fights?

The 2 Options
Option 1: Living Bomb
Living Bomb requires 1 GCD every 12 seconds, and does 100% * (1 + Haste) spellpower in the DOT, 80% in the explosion. Living Bomb has partial (only DOT) Haste scaling, zero Mastery scaling, and normal Crit scaling.

Option 2: Unstable Magic
Unstable Magic requires no cast time. It has a 30% chance to proc off Fireball for an extra 50% of the Fireball's damage. This means we can assume it is exactly a 15% buff to Fireball damage. Fireball has a base 2.25 second cast time, and does 158.6% spellpower in damage.
Fireball has normal Haste scaling, normal Mastery scaling (Ignite), 1.3x Crit scaling due to Critical Mass.

The Comparison
Let's look at the cost of Living Bomb's 1 GCD. Since it doesn't interact with any other spell, we can simply analyse the damage and make a direct comparison.

Fire T16 Mythic: http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/Ko ... 41015.html" target="_blank
Let's take a look at LB_RoP.



41.4 seconds out of the 450 second fight were spent on casting Living Bomb. That's ~9.2% of casting time spent on it. The number makes sense; Napkin math says roughly (1.5 sec GCD / (1 + 22.64% haste) / (12 sec refresh cycle) ) = 10.19% of your casting should be spent casting LB. On the other hand, damage breakdown says that the DOT made up 3.0%, and the explosion 1.7%. This sums to 4.7%, which is considerably less than the ~9.2% casting time spent. (4.7% damage / 9.2% casting time) ~= 51%. Let's call this 51% figure as "cast efficency".

Now, looking at time spent on core rotation spells, we see ~53% on Fireball, ~28% on Pyroblast, and ~9.4% on Inferno Blast, summing up to ~90.29%. In the damage breakdown, Fireball, Pyroblast, Inferno Blast and Ignite damage sum up to ~75.0% overall damage, ignoring Combustion. (75.0% damage / 90.29% casting time) = 83.07%, which is considerably higher "cast efficiency" than Living Bomb. This means that Living Bomb requires more casting time to do less damage, when compared to casting your core rotation spells (FB/IB/Pyro). Indeed, Simulations agree with this analysis:

DPS Ranking:
49771 100.0% Raid
25292 50.8% Mage_Fire_T16M_Ignore_LB
24479 49.2% Mage_Fire_T16M_LB

So if you haven't heard it, I'll say it again. Casting LB on a single target fight is a DPS loss. Even if you take the talent, don't use it. UM isn't "great", but it's free damage at no cost. That's why it's better on single target if you can't cleave LB around for extra explosions.

PS. What about Blast Wave? If you look at BW_RoP, Blast Wave spent 4.82% of overall cast time doing 4.4% of overall damage. That's ~91% efficiency, which is higher than the core rotation. It's definitely worth the time spent casting it.

TL;DR: LB is bad on single target. It's so bad that even if you have it talented, you shouldn't use it in your rotation.