[6.0] Dutch's Fire FAQ & mini guide for level 90!

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Dutchmagoz
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[6.0] Dutch's Fire FAQ & mini guide for level 90!

Unread postby Dutchmagoz Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:16 pm

Since there's been so many (of the same) questions I've decided to make a quick miniguide/FAQ to deal with these.


I advise beginners to read IV's fire guide for 6.0 first, and then come back and read this thread if you still got any questions. (http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/fire-mage-pve-dps-guide" target="_blank)


Table of contents:
- When can I go fire?
- What gems should I use? Should I go for socket bonuses?
- What trinkets should I use?
- Two piece t16 or four piece t16? What offpiece(s)?
- How do I combust most optimally now?
- Living Bomb? Blast wave? Unstable Magic? What do I use when?
- Stat priorities?????



When can I go fire?
Minimum ~35% self buffed crit & 4pc t16. If you don't have 4pc t16, you should have at least like 50% self buffed crit, preferably more.


What gems should I use? Should I go for socket bonuses?
Red: http://wod.wowhead.com/item=76659" target="_blank or http://wod.wowhead.com/item=76681" target="_blank (Same gem, doesnt matter which one you pick.)
Yellow: http://wod.wowhead.com/spell=107713" target="_blank
Blue: http://wod.wowhead.com/item=76636" target="_blank

Go for socket bonuses which are a minimum of 4 intellect per red socket. Always go for yellow/blue socket bonuses.
Example: http://wod.wowhead.com/item=99401" target="_blank has 2 red sockets, for an 8 int bonus. This is 4 int per red socket, so you should go for this bonus.

There's one exception, and this is when you're less than 20% haste. At this point, you want to ignore all red sockets and just gem pure crit. (Except obvious ones, like 1 red socket for 11 int, still go for those)


What trinkets should I use?
Always use http://wod.wowhead.com/item=105422" target="_blank aslong as it's within 2 "tiers" of your other available trinkets. (So use flex PBOI over heroic other trinkets. But use heroic warforged trinkets over PBOI)

Then take your highest item level trinket between http://wod.wowhead.com/item=105540" target="_blank and http://wod.wowhead.com/item=105648" target="_blank.
If both are equal item level, use http://wod.wowhead.com/item=105540" target="_blank.

All other trinkets suck.


Two piece t16 or four piece t16? What offpiece(s)?
Use four pieces of tier 16.

Most optimal offpiece: http://wod.wowhead.com/item=105420" target="_blank
Second most optimal offpiece: http://wod.wowhead.com/item=105464" target="_blank
Third/fourth most optimal offpiece: http://wod.wowhead.com/item=105613" target="_blank equal to http://wod.wowhead.com/item=105604" target="_blank, gloves being better on fast kills, chest on long kills.


How do I combust most optimally now?
Get something that tracks ignite values. I personally use weakauras for this, but addons like combustionhelper or mybigignite work as well if they're updated.

My weakaura:

Code: Select all

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Ignite values swing up and down every hits/couple of seconds, the key to big combustions is to notice these swings and make sure you use combustion at the top of one of these swings.

The ingredients for a good combustion are: Both trinkets procced, 4pc, a lot of multistrike luck.

What you want to do is the following:
- Get at least 1 trinket proc, preferably both.
- Get a heating up proc -> inferno blast. (for 4pc)
- Keep casting fireballs until you got a new heating up proc, so you have both pyroblast! and Heating Up.
- While fireball is in the air, start spamming pyroblasts. If you get a bit lucky, you should get 3 pyros in a row, all during your intellect procs. If you get even more lucky, you get some (double) multistrikes from your pyros. During your pyro spam, take note of your ignite value, and watch it going up/down a bit. At the peak of your ignite, use combustion.
- If during the 3 pyroblasts your ignite LOWERED from the third pyroblast hitting the boss, cast inferno blast (and a new pyroblast if it procs) after it, and use combustion off of that.

The biggest thing to note is, your high/low points of ignite. You need to start understanding what a "high" ignite is for your character, and what a low ignite is for your character, and judge your combustions off of that. In general, if you get 3 pyroblasts in a row during 2 intellect procs, that will be your best moment to combustion. However, multistrikes make it a lot more random, so watch for random ignite spikes.

An example ignite from my character (587 ilvl, decent mastery, not super high though) a high ignite is like 12k, whereas an acceptable one for combustion is 9k+. If I see 15k+ ignite I instantly combust, because that's very high for my character. My rank 1 parses were all done with less than 13k ignites, so it's not that big of a deal to aim extremely high.


Living Bomb? Blast wave? Unstable Magic? What do I use when?
NEVER use Living bomb on a pure single target fight! It is a DPS LOSS to use Living Bomb in a single target scenario.

- For pure single target, use unstable magic.
- For AoE DPS for short periods of time use Blast Wave.
- For prolonged periods of cleaving between 2+ targets, use Living Bomb, and make sure you spread it before it explodes.

Stat priorities????
Crit > mastery = haste till ~20% > multistrike > haste = int > spellpower > versatility.

Mastery = haste till ~20% only applies when using t16 2pc.

Being less than 20% haste is fine, but crit becomes even more valuable then, and you will want to ignore all socket bonuses and go for pure crit. (Except very obvious socket bonuses, like 1 red socket for 11 int)
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wihajster
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Re: [6.0] Fire FAQ & mini guide for level 90!

Unread postby wihajster Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:18 pm

I'm killing dummies whole day and what bothers me is the fact that with 3x 30k crits and 36,5% mastery I only get 5k ignite:(
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Dutchmagoz
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Re: [6.0] Fire FAQ & mini guide for level 90!

Unread postby Dutchmagoz Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:35 pm

I'm killing dummies whole day and what bothers me is the fact that with 3x 30k crits and 36,5% mastery I only get 5k ignite:(
Are you using multistrike trinket? And are you buffed with mastery etc? That should help a lot, and getting multistrikes is the real goldmine.
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Re: [6.0] Fire FAQ & mini guide for level 90!

Unread postby wihajster Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:47 pm

I'm self buffed when doing dummies I have Immerseus and bboy trinket and I miss multistrike one ;/
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Re: [6.0] Fire FAQ & mini guide for level 90!

Unread postby Dutchmagoz Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:18 pm

I'm self buffed when doing dummies I have Immerseus and bboy trinket and I miss multistrike one ;/
No multistrike trinket is quite a decent loss. The rest seems mostly just not having raid buffs and very high mastery.
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Re: [6.0] Fire FAQ & mini guide for level 90!

Unread postby Razilon Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:57 pm

Is it still worth delaying Combustion to line up with PBoI, or is that less relevant now with the removal of the AT/PoM combo?
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Re: [6.0] Fire FAQ & mini guide for level 90!

Unread postby Zildijana Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:53 pm

To be able to keep the heating up buff easier how much haste do you try to reach?
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Re: [6.0] Fire FAQ & mini guide for level 90!

Unread postby Dutchmagoz Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:55 pm

To be able to keep the heating up buff easier how much haste do you try to reach?
25% raid buffed.
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Re: [6.0] Fire FAQ & mini guide for level 90!

Unread postby Komma Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:16 pm

To be able to keep the heating up buff easier how much haste do you try to reach?
25% raid buffed.
Heating up buff doesn't require any special haste to keep up. The hard one is 2T16.

2T16 duration = 5 seconds.
(Pyro GCD + Fireball x2) = 6 seconds.

In theory, this means you need at least ( ( 6 / 5 ) - 1) = 20% haste raid buffed to fit in 2 fireballs within 2T16's buff duration. In reality, you need slightly higher due to lag between casting fireballs and pyroblasts. It doesn't need to be too much higher though - keep in mind that 2T16 itself gives haste.
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Re: [6.0] Fire FAQ & mini guide for level 90!

Unread postby canesmage Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:28 pm

To touch on that, hows the best way to help 2pc and 4pc for fire? I know T16 will be forgotten in a few weeks, but as I'm raiding these last few weeks as Fire I'd still like to practice it.

Is there an "intelligent" way to use the 2pc? Should you go out of your way from the normal rotation to cast a Pyroblast to keep up stacks? Or if they fall off it's not big deal?

Same thing for the 3pc, is it something that will passively take care of itself or should I be using IB outside of spreading dots/getting a higher ignite for combust?

Sorry for the silly questions, just trying out fire these last couple weeks!
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Re: [6.0] Fire FAQ & mini guide for level 90!

Unread postby honkeymagoo Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:38 am

I'm curious about the 4p as well. I've been trying to squeeze in as many inferno blasts as possible without munching insta pyros.

When I see it coming off cd I'll toss out a fireball+!pyro without heating up and use IB as they hit. If I have both !pyro and heating up as it's coming off cd I'll shoot the fireball+!pyro and wait to see if both crit, if they don't I'll use IB, if they both crit I'll shoot off another !pyro then IB.

Since I'm stacking mastery and have a longer gcd, it seems like as long as I'm not standing max range I can react to crits without wasting time outside gcd.
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Re: [6.0] Fire FAQ & mini guide for level 90!

Unread postby Wilderness Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:51 am

No multistrike trinket is quite a decent loss. The rest seems mostly just not having raid buffs and very high mastery.
The guide mentions to take what's higher between BBOY and KTT but wouldn't that refer more to between tiers rather than regular vs warforged? The stat weights Komma posted as well as your statements here about MS looks like heroic KTT would be better than heroic wf BBOY from what I can see.
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Re: [6.0] Fire FAQ & mini guide for level 90!

Unread postby Eraze Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:39 am

Would it be worth combining 2 mythic with 2 heroic to get 4 set for fire or would it be better to keep 2 pc and use 3 offset warforged mythic pieces I have?

Can probably get to bit over 50% crit either way at the expense of some of the other stats.
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Re: [6.0] Fire FAQ & mini guide for level 90!

Unread postby Dutchmagoz Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:25 am

Would it be worth combining 2 mythic with 2 heroic to get 4 set for fire or would it be better to keep 2 pc and use 3 offset warforged mythic pieces I have?

Can probably get to bit over 50% crit either way at the expense of some of the other stats.
2 mythic tier + 2 heroic tier VS 2 mythic tier + 3 mythic warforged tier?

I'd go with 2 mythic tier + 3 mythic warforged tier. Tier legs are pretty mandatory though.
No multistrike trinket is quite a decent loss. The rest seems mostly just not having raid buffs and very high mastery.
The guide mentions to take what's higher between BBOY and KTT but wouldn't that refer more to between tiers rather than regular vs warforged? The stat weights Komma posted as well as your statements here about MS looks like heroic KTT would be better than heroic wf BBOY from what I can see.
The difference between WF BBoY and non WF KTT is probably neglible. Choose depending on your gear. If you have low haste, I'd go for WF BBoY, if your haste is quite high already, I'd lean towards non WF KTT.
To touch on that, hows the best way to help 2pc and 4pc for fire? I know T16 will be forgotten in a few weeks, but as I'm raiding these last few weeks as Fire I'd still like to practice it.

Is there an "intelligent" way to use the 2pc? Should you go out of your way from the normal rotation to cast a Pyroblast to keep up stacks? Or if they fall off it's not big deal?

Same thing for the 3pc, is it something that will passively take care of itself or should I be using IB outside of spreading dots/getting a higher ignite for combust?

Sorry for the silly questions, just trying out fire these last couple weeks!
Yes. To keep 5 stacks it's worth dropping the pyro camp and casting a pyro without HU.

Your second part, it will mostly take care of itself, especially if you're not running 60+% char sheet crit. If you got a pyro and no HU and there's not a fireball in the air towards the boss, feel free to use IB though. This situation should only arise after using a GCD on something like LB or BW though.
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Re: [6.0] Fire FAQ & mini guide for level 90!

Unread postby Dutchmagoz Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:40 am

Added stat priorities in OP.
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Re: [6.0] Fire FAQ & mini guide for level 90!

Unread postby TLTeo Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:08 pm

Does combustion damage update with incanter's flow, or is it possible to snapshot it at high stacks to get a bigger combustion?
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Re: [6.0] Fire FAQ & mini guide for level 90!

Unread postby Gnockz Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:04 pm

Could you add enchants for most DPS, because im not sure where to keep the old ones... =(
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Re: [6.0] Fire FAQ & mini guide for level 90!

Unread postby Dutchmagoz Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:52 pm

Does combustion damage update with incanter's flow, or is it possible to snapshot it at high stacks to get a bigger combustion?
Combustion only cares about haste, nothing else. (And ignite ofcource)
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Re: [6.0] Fire FAQ & mini guide for level 90!

Unread postby wihajster Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:10 pm

Are tdays nerfs to fire live?
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Re: [6.0] Fire FAQ & mini guide for level 90!

Unread postby Hendrikto Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:41 pm

Yep, they were... sadly.

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