Fire Talent Comparisons, Stat Weights, Racials, Trinkets

[Frosted]

Not just shorter fights but also better leg ring. You should prolly stop stacking crit at 47% and go all out mastery/haste after that. Would be nice, if all the haste breakpoints were listed here. As in 'you get the last pyro in, before ignite ticks'-breakpoints.

There are no real haste breakpoints for ignite?

Seeing as ignite is not influenced by haste and combustion is usually made from an ignite on pc by the same sequence of spells, there are breakpoints at which ignite ticks 1x less each, before the last pyro arrives, significantly improving the combustion. Those breakpoints are of interest, now that you can run with so little crit.

? Pyro impacts do not change when ignite ticks. Your initial Pyro impact will set up the timing, and later ones just refresh the ignite to have a time_till_tick that is the same as it was before a pyro impact.

[Curnivore]

the proc uptime is almost 100%.

Huh? Last time I checked it was around 30% on long fights and up to ~45% on short fights usually. Got logs?

[Glitzerbling]

Yes i know and im still making sense
Now the sequence of spells to make an ignite on pc under influence of high haste is:
Fb>pb>fb>pb>pb>pb.
The ignite starts when the fisrt fb arrives and is highest when the last pb arrives.
Now ignite ticks every full second.
And lets say with the haste i have the time between the fb arriving and the last pb arriving is 6.2 seconds. Now ignite will tick 6 times before my last cast arrives, each time losing value toward my combustion. Now if i get a certain amount of haste more, i could lower the 6.2sec to 5.9 so that ignite only ticks 5 times before i am finished, losing less value for my combustion.

That is the breakpoint im talking about.

[delaydackel]

Isn't reaching this haste breakpoint pretty much a given?

Without any haste the f>p>f>p>p>p sequence takes 2 x 2.25 sec(f) + 4 x 1.5 sec(p) sec = 10.5 sec.
In order to get this below 5.9 sec we need 1-(5.9/10.5) ~= 43.80% haste.
BL/hero already accounts for 40%, leaving only 3.8% or 380 haste rating to gear. That's like at most 2 rolls haste on any item.

[Glitzerbling]

I would still like to know the haste ratings for all the breakpoints. To see if i am close to one.
But thx for the formula. Now i can find them out by myself

Btw the first fb shouldnt be considered in the formula, since ignite doesnt start until that fb arrives.
And the last pb aswell, since its gcd comes after the spell.

Ill just add em here
Base time 6.75 sec.
5 ticks :14.4%
4 ticks :37.8%
3 ticks :150%

Shorter variation
Base 3.0 sec.
2 ticks :3.5%
1 tick : --- gcd cap prevents this.

[Alzer]

During BL, it is possible to get it under 4 seconds if you have high haste + luck and move towards the crystal as you are building your ignite.

You need to be pretty lucky for this tho (mostly server-lag but also 4p), and you lose out on the IB before the combustion ( IB- > combustion - > IB).

Not recommended as you need alot of haste to make a difference (the only spell affected by haste during your opener is your second fireball, assuming you are GCD-capped), and server lag will still screw you over most of the time.

It's just not worth thinking about haste breakpoints at all.



Edit: Thought it would be interesting to know that if the last pyro would have hit 31 milliseconds later (after the ingite tick) the ingite would be 53872, which means that hitting the pyroblast before the 4s mark increased the combustion by about 13%.

[Curnivore]

Are you all talking about 1-2 minute fights when it gets to this spec? I went into a few fights to test it and it felt very unreliable after the initial Combustion since the fight might not be exactly Patchwerk-esque for everything to align properly. It also got very problematic that the trinket isn't RPPM-type to reset on boss pulls plus it's not available when needed in non-raid content.

[Glitzerbling]

Timers will still align... timers dont care, if anything gets moved about or multiple targets appear ^^.

Should be reliable enough for the first 4 proccs or so which is up to 8 min fights. After the 115 vs 120 sec cd start to drift too far apart.

And if you have issues with trinket beeing on cd wheen fight starts: go afk for last trashpack before boss, no trinket to proc, when you dont attack :3

[Curnivore]

And if you have issues with trinket beeing on cd wheen fight starts: go afk for last trashpack before boss, no trinket to proc, when you dont attack :3

haha. I'll keep that in mind. It got really annoying when I was trying it on easy content with fast trash and no wipes. :>

[Frosted]

Yes i know and im still making sense
Now the sequence of spells to make an ignite on pc under influence of high haste is:
Fb>pb>fb>pb>pb>pb.
The ignite starts when the fisrt fb arrives and is highest when the last pb arrives.
Now ignite ticks every full second.
And lets say with the haste i have the time between the fb arriving and the last pb arriving is 6.2 seconds. Now ignite will tick 6 times before my last cast arrives, each time losing value toward my combustion. Now if i get a certain amount of haste more, i could lower the 6.2sec to 5.9 so that ignite only ticks 5 times before i am finished, losing less value for my combustion.

That is the breakpoint im talking about.

This should be really straight forward. You have a set amount of travel time (whatever distance you choose, spell velocity of 35y/s I believe). Subtract that from your total window time, that's the amount of time casting spells you get. Use FBcasttime+global*PB_count for total cast time formula, make it a function of haste, and just use a spreadsheet to incriment haste. Should give you all the "breakpoints", although I doubt with such a small window you have more than 1.

Granted, that doesn't mean anything really. Just because something like that exists doesn't mean it's worth gearing for.

[Glitzerbling]

Ye i just made em myself after i figured out how.
Looks like there is only one worth looking at at 37.8%. But eh thats a lot of haste and the next one is unachievable without moving in.

[Magenv]

Quick question about trinkets.

Last week i got both (M)DSI and (M)IRP. I had a (HWF)Gaze and 6/6 Sandman. I was wondering if there was any insight on which i should be using since they are all so close on the list.

My stats are currently thus with (M)IRP and 6/6 Sandman equipt, and i am a BELF
Crit: 48.95% (2525) (with food and brilliance)
Mastery: 47.73% (2620) (no raid buff)
** I also have 5 sockets and enchants currently as mastery to keep me around the crit soft cap with IRP equipped.

I read that dsi (mastery) is better for aoe/cleave however if i want to swap to it over IRP i will have to regem every time i swap, would it be better to use the gaze for st since it is close to the mythic level being WF?

[skiz]

looked into that issue for myself.

DSI wins and scales decent with amount of targets. Gaze also scales decent with targets, but DSI is better. IRP is awesome if you lack both trinkets and it scales horrible with targets. Would recommend to take DSI and adjust your gear to that one. I don't think that IRP is better than any of those trinkets unless you do need crit for critcaps (i.e. very low itemlevel).

[Magenv]

Thank you for the quick answer, ill test it out and see how it goes!

[Dreaper]

Does anyone have issues with sandman's proccing on pull when they switch to fire/swap gear in between bosses? If I swap gear/switch specs, my sandman doesn't proc until like 15-20 seconds into the fight. Would I need to swap during trash and proc the trink so it resets internal cd or something?


Help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[yungg]

2 min cd on sandmans upon equipping
equip during trash, you dont need to proc it necessarily.

[skiz]

On-Use-Trinkets suffer from 30 sec CD on switching trinket slots or equipping it. I would guess it is the same for icd.

[DyLemma]

Has a 1.55min ICD, as soon as you equip it, you need to wait for the ICD. It's not an RPPM, it's not going to reset on pull like RPPM's do. Just equip on trash and don't proc it before boss.

[Curnivore]

Something similar happens after a login.

[Azo]

I thought they set pyroblast "travel-time" to 0,75 seconds max during SoO. No matter the distance pyroblast would never hit later then 0,75 seconds after cast. Is my memory false or did they revert it? As I remember it the change was made to kill rocket-boots running. Also I thought that would kill any running if travel-time is capped at 0,75 and GCD at 1,0.