7.1.0 Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

Guides and discussions of all things specific to the Ice Lancers of Azeroth.
Xaximbo
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Re: Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

Unread postby Xaximbo Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:31 am

Thank you so much for the work. I really want to give this a go. Can someone point me to some stat weights to use for this build?
Simmed yesterday and for me (36% crit)

Mastery weights: 11
Crit weights: 10
Int weights: 10
Haste weights: 8.5
Versatility: 8.3

TL;DR:

An item with mastery & Crit is a bis, an item that is an ilvl upgrade and has mastery/crit or both is likely an upgrade. Haste & Versa aren't useless stats, they are all fairly good thats why an ilvl upgrade is usually an upgrade with this build.

Its interesting how even if i'm above the shatter crit cap it is still a very valuable stat.
poorprae
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Re: Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

Unread postby poorprae Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:40 am

H Nythendra Pug - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/GYnAdhDTPbmzN1jQ" target="_blank
My Gear - http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/us/s ... raelicious" target="_blank

68.23% Mastery, 32.51% Crit
Used 2 x Prolonged Pots and +300 Mastery food. Didn't use flask.

I could only get 53rd percentile. Nythendra and Guarm won't drop my relic =(
Rikx
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Re: Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

Unread postby Rikx Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:53 pm

I thought the shatter bonus was more about following that Instant Flurry up with an Ice Lance? Feels clunky as though, double GCD, really knocks out your casting rhythm I find, esp during a burn phase (hero/IV/RoP etc)
1) You're thinking of regular frost. With GS it's a dps loss to ice lance unless you have your third stack of Chain Reaction, and it's more important to make sure your frostbolt crits so your icicle generated is larger.

2) It's a better use of your time to not use ice lance during IV and RoP either way, no matter the Chain Reaction stacks.
Simmed yesterday and for me (36% crit)
The reason why I never respond to people asking for pawn strings is because it is always different depending on your gear.

They need to SIM THEMSELVES, and not rely on someone else generating the number, or else it can be completely wrong.
Its interesting how even if i'm above the shatter crit cap it is still a very valuable stat.
Most of your damage isn't coming from shattering stuff anyway, you know, since you can't shatter every frostbolt and you're not going to have enough shimmers to realistically shatter most of your glacial spikes even if you had brain freeze up everytime.

And every frostbolt crit also reduces the cooldown on IV, so... yeah, shatter crit cap isn't that big of a thing in GS.
I could only get 53rd percentile. Nythendra and Guarm won't drop my relic =(
This is just my opinion, but I believe it's really hard to get above 60% for your ilvl without BiS legendaries and really good luck. So just doing 53% for your ilvl is doing alright, especially if your ilvl isn't that high. GS really does feel like a spec to me that's dependent on gear.
Xaximbo
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Re: Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

Unread postby Xaximbo Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:39 pm

H Nythendra Pug - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/GYnAdhDTPbmzN1jQ" target="_blank
My Gear - http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/us/s ... raelicious" target="_blank

68.23% Mastery, 32.51% Crit
Used 2 x Prolonged Pots and +300 Mastery food. Didn't use flask.

I could only get 53rd percentile. Nythendra and Guarm won't drop my relic =(

This is a bit old but the spec can be on the top. It was 94% percentile (Now 91%)

https://es.warcraftlogs.com/reports/cLR ... amage-done" target="_blank

Used IF (didn't swap to rune bc lazyness) prolonged pot and Wriggling Sinew for this fight.
Rikx
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Re: Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

Unread postby Rikx Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:41 pm

Not wanting to knock your parse, but Ilgynoth really isn't a fight to be examining dps on.
poorprae
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Re: Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

Unread postby poorprae Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:02 pm

IF over ROP = Sims as a DPS loss for me.
Lammer
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Re: Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

Unread postby Lammer Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:55 am

A couple of weeks ago I decided to pick Frost as a second spec, switched loot to it and got Magtheridon bracers, but can't understand if I should be glad or not :)

The list with legendaries seems very strange as in the neighbour topic.

Here we see that Lady Vashj gloves and Magtheridon bracers only add 3k DPS. Shard gives 30k which I believe is an adequate figure (I tested on Fire).

in Frosted's guide ([7.1] Frost Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary) the legendary list also seems strange: AoE Zanessu gives about the same DPS as Magtheridon for single target.

It seems that Simcraft does not count Frost legendaries properly. Could anyone sim legendaries please? The spec will become more important the more time goes.
fungames22
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Re: Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

Unread postby fungames22 Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:23 am

Updates for 7.1.5?

someone told me IF with 35% crit and then mastery
Rikx
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Re: Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

Unread postby Rikx Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:59 pm

Updates for 7.1.5? <br abp="639"><br abp="640">someone told me IF with 35% crit and then mastery
Stop worrying about 7.1.5 for now. There's still something like, at least two more weeks of changes to go through I think. Even just tweaking the right spell coefficient slightly can change everything from stat weights to rotation.

The best/only thing you can do to prepare for 7.1.5 is to hold on to every piece of gear you can hold on to, that has a good ilvl. Other than that, it's pointless to speculate here about it.
in Frosted's guide ([7.1] Frost Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary) the legendary list also seems strange: AoE Zanessu gives about the same DPS as Magtheridon for single target.<br abp="676"><br abp="677">It seems that Simcraft does not count Frost legendaries properly.
Not to sound like a dick here, but you can't reasonably believe SimC isn't simulating legendaries properly just because they're is doing less damage than what you think it ought to be doing.

Could there be a problem? Sure. But there needs to be more and better evidence than just "well it looks wrong". It could be a problem with how the APL is written, for example. But really if you think there's a problem, then you should go and try testing it.

When I was young and impressionable, and playing one of my first MMOs, a very smart player once told me, "If you really want to know something, find out for yourself. Don't rely on someone else telling you." And then he warped out using a method that hadn't been documented by any of the players at the time.

Plus, think of it this way. Mag's Bracers gives at most 18% extra to ice lance. Zann'esu gives at most 175% to blizzard. If I napkinmathed it right, Zann'esu at 5 stacks makes blizzard when you cast it a 1089%/8s spellpower cast. If Mag Bracer stacks never drop, that just makes your ice lances go from 267.9% on a FoF to 316.122%. It wouldn't be strange if Zann'esu is competitive at that rate.

If you want to test it, feel free and go ahead! I mean, you could just try equipping a sim character with Mag's Bracers and only using ice lance, to see if it's applying the 18% extra damage correctly. Then you could try using ice lance only on FoF... there's a lot of things you can test.
yarafx1
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Re: Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

Unread postby yarafx1 Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:58 pm

Have any of you looked at Razlooper?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/c ... 758036/10/" target="_blank

Through almost all of his fights he uses around 5-8 ice lances and 0-2 Frozen orbs the dude bring the DPS on everything but Il'gynoth, Heart of Corruption.

Is this guy how you say doing it right?

I keep trying this but instinctively start firing ice lances on procs its a hard habbit to break to not respond to a proc after playing fire for so long.
Canonic
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Re: Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

Unread postby Canonic Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:04 am

Hello, a 7/7M En fire mage here. Thinking about fooling around with the GS spec.

Am I seeing it right that you just frostbolt/GS? There's nothing else?( proper use of IV and rune of course).
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Norrinir
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Re: Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

Unread postby Norrinir Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:31 am

Hello, a 7/7M En fire mage here. Thinking about fooling around with the GS spec.

Am I seeing it right that you just frostbolt/GS? There's nothing else?( proper use of IV and rune of course).
Also instant Flurry, but yes.
Canonic
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Re: Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

Unread postby Canonic Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:52 am

Flurry on proc?
yarafx1
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Re: Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

Unread postby yarafx1 Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:18 am

How many traits are needed to actually try this build to decent dps I tried last night to a shotty 160k dps 1/3rd 1/2 of my normal dps lol
nickseng
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Re: Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

Unread postby nickseng Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:58 am

I thought the shatter bonus was more about following that Instant Flurry up with an Ice Lance? Feels clunky as though, double GCD, really knocks out your casting rhythm I find, esp during a burn phase (hero/IV/RoP etc)
Winter's chill (procced by BF'ed Flurry) causes all spells to treat the target as frozen, so it works on all spells. The thing is that the debuff is incredibly short (~1.6 second) that you can mostly only use it with Ice Lance, outside of shimmer play
Steelbane
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Re: Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

Unread postby Steelbane Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:09 am

I thought the shatter bonus was more about following that Instant Flurry up with an Ice Lance? Feels clunky as though, double GCD, really knocks out your casting rhythm I find, esp during a burn phase (hero/IV/RoP etc)
Winter's chill (procced by BF'ed Flurry) causes all spells to treat the target as frozen, so it works on all spells. The thing is that the debuff is incredibly short (~1.6 second) that you can mostly only use it with Ice Lance, outside of shimmer play
It also burns your FoF proc too (as well as feeling clunky), so I suspect its essential to cast Ice Lances first to clear any FoF procs, before using an instant flurry.
poorprae
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Re: Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

Unread postby poorprae Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:46 pm

My best performance yet even though it's normal Guarm:

87th percentile, 94th iLV
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/B2 ... ne&fight=3" target="_blank

Mistakes I made: on my ring's hero (and 2nd prolonged power pot), I used it a hair late and didn't get the full 30 seconds in.

Other than that, I had +375 mastery food, flask, used at least 1 GS in every ROP and also IV'ed in ROP.
Rikx
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Re: Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

Unread postby Rikx Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:13 pm

Hello, a 7/7M En fire mage here. Thinking about fooling around with the GS spec.

Am I seeing it right that you just frostbolt/GS? There's nothing else?( proper use of IV and rune of course).
The very first post's breakdown of what you do is like 95% correct. Please re-read that.
It also burns your FoF proc too (as well as feeling clunky), so I suspect its essential to cast Ice Lances first to clear any FoF procs, before using an instant flurry.
No. Almost the entire point of using Flurry on Brain Freeze is to make sure your Frostbolt shatters. You can practically ignore Ice Lance if you want to. You're trying to treat it like regular frost does. This is the thread for GS.

Now if you want to squeeze out another 300-500 dps, then only Ice Lance when Chain Reaction is on 3 stacks. But that's it. And only when Rune of Power isn't active.
How many traits are needed to actually try this build to decent dps I tried last night to a shotty 160k dps 1/3rd 1/2 of my normal dps lol
The spec generally seems to do better the more gear you have. I would at least try to have Black Ice and Chilled to the Core before expecting much out of it.
Flurry on proc?
I just wrote about this a page ago. Please read that.
Have any of you looked at Razlooper?
He does really well, but what's also important is the fight times going on there. GS, with RoP and IV, can get some very very crazy burst periods, and the fights I'm looking at his raid is doing enough damage that it ends pretty quick after his second IV.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/K7 ... &source=26" target="_blank

Plus he uses his Shard on that second IV, so... yeah his numbers are going to be extremely high because the boss is dying really close to when he finishes dumping almost all of his burst.
Jango
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Re: Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

Unread postby Jango Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:56 am

Sorry brand new mage here so please forgive my ignorance, (yes I know I am a noob, just looking for help) and am REALLY trying to full understand the intricacies of this build but I have a very silly question...From previous things I have read, it seemed as if when the target was "frozen", then the crit chance would sky rocket for GS.

So....1) how the heck do you know when the target is "frozen". Does that mean rooted in place?
and 2), if the "go-to" talent for tier 60 is Splitting Ice and not Ice Nova, then how do you freeze the target at a distance right before GS hits?

Essentially right now my rotation boils down to 5 frostbolts, and then start casting GS, just as it start to go off, I hit Ice Nova to freeze the target making GS crit. If I have no Ice Nova, then what is in place of it to ensure target is frozen and GS crits?
Thank you all so much, PS - This website and these posts are SO informative, keep it up everyone!
Cauldron
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Re: Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

Unread postby Cauldron Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:18 am

Sorry brand new mage here so please forgive my ignorance, (yes I know I am a noob, just looking for help) and am REALLY trying to full understand the intricacies of this build but I have a very silly question...From previous things I have read, it seemed as if when the target was "frozen", then the crit chance would sky rocket for GS.

So....1) how the heck do you know when the target is "frozen". Does that mean rooted in place?
and 2), if the "go-to" talent for tier 60 is Splitting Ice and not Ice Nova, then how do you freeze the target at a distance right before GS hits?

Essentially right now my rotation boils down to 5 frostbolts, and then start casting GS, just as it start to go off, I hit Ice Nova to freeze the target making GS crit. If I have no Ice Nova, then what is in place of it to ensure target is frozen and GS crits?
Thank you all so much, PS - This website and these posts are SO informative, keep it up everyone!
You need splitting ice cause this build rely a lot on doubling the glacial spike (cleave fight is where it is at is best). So the only way to increase GS crit chance is to cast Glacial Spike at max distance and then blink and cast an instant Ice Flurry. But this is limited by the number of blinks, the proc you have and... well not worth imho.

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