[7.2] Frost Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

Guides and discussions of all things specific to the Ice Lancers of Azeroth.
Crayon
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Re: [7.0] Frost Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

Unread postby Crayon Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:57 am

I can confirm that Blood Elf silence when used to kick a boss will proc the ring.
serjery
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Re: [7.0] Frost Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

Unread postby serjery Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:14 am

I may have missed something but how is Unstable Arcanocrystal simming in the trinket tier list?

Also looking at the dps talent set ups, AG is pretty close to FBomb. I actually enjoy the playstyle of AG since my artifact points are low (I just got this guy to 110 last week and I'm sitting at 15 points), and Blizzard seems to be a stronger filler spell even without AG than frostbolt. If I do talent into AG, I assume blizzard shoots up in priority and I would want to ensure nearly 100% uptime on Blizzard?
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nathyiel
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Re: [7.0] Frost Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

Unread postby nathyiel Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:59 am

Even without it you want 100% uptime on Blizzard. And with the number of fight with add, it's even more important.

I can only suggest to use addon to track Blizzard duration as UI don't help a lot here.
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MagusMaximus
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Re: [7.0] Frost Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

Unread postby MagusMaximus Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:18 pm

I was just reviewing the notes on MMOC and saw this:
Blizzard Ice shards pelt the target area, dealing [ 8 + 360% 396% of Spell Power ] Frost damage over 0 and reducing movement speed by 50% for 15 sec. Mage - Frost Spec. 2.5% of Base Mana. 35 yd range. 8 sec cast (Channeled). 8 sec cooldown.
Channeled? Am I missing something? Surely this isn't going live.
jabarri1
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Re: [7.0] Frost Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

Unread postby jabarri1 Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:32 pm

I was just reviewing the notes on MMOC and saw this:
Blizzard Ice shards pelt the target area, dealing [ 8 + 360% 396% of Spell Power ] Frost damage over 0 and reducing movement speed by 50% for 15 sec. Mage - Frost Spec. 2.5% of Base Mana. 35 yd range. 8 sec cast (Channeled). 8 sec cooldown.
Channeled? Am I missing something? Surely this isn't going live.
Tooltip on MMO-C has always been that way for some reason. It's still currently cast and forget on the PTR as it is on live.
Steelbane
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Re: [7.0] Frost Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

Unread postby Steelbane Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:42 am

I'd love to see Blizzard become an instant cast like Flamestrike is for Fire Mages, even if it requires a FoF Proc or some such.. we need a couple of key changes to make Frost viable, the tiny little buffs imo are not getting us there.
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Lahrast
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Re: [7.0] Frost Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

Unread postby Lahrast Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:48 am

I'd love to see Blizzard become an instant cast like Flamestrike is for Fire Mages, even if it requires a FoF Proc or some such.. we need a couple of key changes to make Frost viable, the tiny little buffs imo are not getting us there.
that's quiet an incorrect statement, with the buff's frost is completely viable - i agree that blizzard with fof or bf -proc would be nice but tbh it would be just a qol improvement

dps-wise it's totally competitive now imho
Rainingblue
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Re: [7.0] Frost Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

Unread postby Rainingblue Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:55 pm

Any update on trinket simulations after EM ones got buffed?

Which are the best ones?
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gakkiz
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Re: [7.0] Frost Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

Unread postby gakkiz Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:18 am

crit/mastery gear
Arcano + Sinew
Image

some hate/versatility
Arcano + Twisting Winds
no neck enchant
Image
Image


im confused about the stat weight difference when changing gear. might the big crit difference come from the change of trinkets?
nirdana
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Re: [7.0] Frost Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

Unread postby nirdana Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:37 pm

yes, it does. It is because capping crit on ice lance (fllury maybe too) so if have too much crit you have higher than 100% crit chance on those abilites and crit is losing its value.
Reaching 33,3.. % crit chance makes spells that are affected by Shatter talent to have 100% crit chance (1,5 multiplier and + 50% bonus chance)

Twisting winds as an intelligence trinket vs sinew make the difference with your gear probably.
Abjatha
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Re: [7.0] Frost Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

Unread postby Abjatha Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:43 pm

im confused about the stat weight difference when changing gear. might the big crit difference come from the change of trinkets?
Your low crit setup with only +/+ 1.5k stat scaling plots doesn't reach to ice lance crit cap (33.3%) to show it's value drop significantly.
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Norrinir
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Re: [7.0] Frost Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

Unread postby Norrinir Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:23 pm

Current Frost APL doesn't use Blizzard without Arctic Gale even against multiple enemies. This should fix it:

Code: Select all

actions=counterspell,if=target.debuff.casting.react actions+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react=0&prev_gcd.flurry actions+=/time_warp,if=(time=0&buff.bloodlust.down)|(buff.bloodlust.down&equipped.132410) actions+=/call_action_list,name=cooldowns actions+=/blizzard,if=buff.potion_of_deadly_grace.up&!prev_off_gcd.water_jet actions+=/ice_nova,if=debuff.winters_chill.up actions+=/frostbolt,if=prev_off_gcd.water_jet actions+=/water_jet,if=prev_gcd.frostbolt&buff.fingers_of_frost.stack<(2+artifact.icy_hand.enabled)&buff.brain_freeze.react=0 actions+=/ray_of_frost,if=buff.icy_veins.up|(cooldown.icy_veins.remains>action.ray_of_frost.cooldown&buff.rune_of_power.down) actions+=/flurry,if=buff.brain_freeze.react&buff.fingers_of_frost.react=0 actions+=/glacial_spike actions+=/frozen_touch,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.stack<=(0+artifact.icy_hand.enabled) actions+=/frost_bomb,if=debuff.frost_bomb.remains<action.ice_lance.travel_time&buff.fingers_of_frost.react>0 actions+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react>0&cooldown.icy_veins.remains>10|buff.fingers_of_frost.react>2 actions+=/frozen_orb actions+=/ice_nova actions+=/comet_storm actions+=/blizzard,if=talent.artic_gale.enabled|active_enemies>1 actions+=/ebonbolt,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.stack<=(0+artifact.icy_hand.enabled) actions+=/frostbolt
Also, there's a point at which casting Blizzard is better than casting Ice Lance, this seems to happen roughly against 4 enemies (3 with Arctic Gale). The following APL does just that:

Code: Select all

actions=counterspell,if=target.debuff.casting.react actions+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react=0&prev_gcd.flurry actions+=/time_warp,if=(time=0&buff.bloodlust.down)|(buff.bloodlust.down&equipped.132410) actions+=/call_action_list,name=cooldowns actions+=/blizzard,if=buff.potion_of_deadly_grace.up&!prev_off_gcd.water_jet actions+=/ice_nova,if=debuff.winters_chill.up actions+=/frostbolt,if=prev_off_gcd.water_jet actions+=/water_jet,if=prev_gcd.frostbolt&buff.fingers_of_frost.stack<(2+artifact.icy_hand.enabled)&buff.brain_freeze.react=0 actions+=/ray_of_frost,if=buff.icy_veins.up|(cooldown.icy_veins.remains>action.ray_of_frost.cooldown&buff.rune_of_power.down) actions+=/flurry,if=buff.brain_freeze.react&buff.fingers_of_frost.react=0 actions+=/glacial_spike actions+=/frozen_touch,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.stack<=(0+artifact.icy_hand.enabled) actions+=/blizzard,if=active_enemies>3|active_enemies>2&talent.arctic_gale.enabled actions+=/frost_bomb,if=debuff.frost_bomb.remains<action.ice_lance.travel_time&buff.fingers_of_frost.react>0 actions+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react>0&cooldown.icy_veins.remains>10|buff.fingers_of_frost.react>2 actions+=/frozen_orb actions+=/ice_nova actions+=/comet_storm actions+=/blizzard,if=talent.artic_gale.enabled|active_enemies>1 actions+=/ebonbolt,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.stack<=(0+artifact.icy_hand.enabled) actions+=/frostbolt
You can move the action even further up, but it starts to matter at around 7-8 enemies and the gains are rather small (against 10 enemies, casting Blizzard before Ice Lance is ~2.7% increase, casting Blizzard before Water Jet/Flurry is ~3.1% increase).
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Frosted
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Re: [7.0] Frost Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

Unread postby Frosted Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:58 am

Updated every section of the OP.
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Frosted
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Re: [7.0] Frost Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

Unread postby Frosted Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:58 am

Current Frost APL doesn't use Blizzard without Arctic Gale even against multiple enemies. This should fix it:

Code: Select all

actions=counterspell,if=target.debuff.casting.react actions+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react=0&prev_gcd.flurry actions+=/time_warp,if=(time=0&buff.bloodlust.down)|(buff.bloodlust.down&equipped.132410) actions+=/call_action_list,name=cooldowns actions+=/blizzard,if=buff.potion_of_deadly_grace.up&!prev_off_gcd.water_jet actions+=/ice_nova,if=debuff.winters_chill.up actions+=/frostbolt,if=prev_off_gcd.water_jet actions+=/water_jet,if=prev_gcd.frostbolt&buff.fingers_of_frost.stack<(2+artifact.icy_hand.enabled)&buff.brain_freeze.react=0 actions+=/ray_of_frost,if=buff.icy_veins.up|(cooldown.icy_veins.remains>action.ray_of_frost.cooldown&buff.rune_of_power.down) actions+=/flurry,if=buff.brain_freeze.react&buff.fingers_of_frost.react=0 actions+=/glacial_spike actions+=/frozen_touch,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.stack<=(0+artifact.icy_hand.enabled) actions+=/frost_bomb,if=debuff.frost_bomb.remains<action.ice_lance.travel_time&buff.fingers_of_frost.react>0 actions+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react>0&cooldown.icy_veins.remains>10|buff.fingers_of_frost.react>2 actions+=/frozen_orb actions+=/ice_nova actions+=/comet_storm actions+=/blizzard,if=talent.artic_gale.enabled|active_enemies>1 actions+=/ebonbolt,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.stack<=(0+artifact.icy_hand.enabled) actions+=/frostbolt
Also, there's a point at which casting Blizzard is better than casting Ice Lance, this seems to happen roughly against 4 enemies (3 with Arctic Gale). The following APL does just that:

Code: Select all

actions=counterspell,if=target.debuff.casting.react actions+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react=0&prev_gcd.flurry actions+=/time_warp,if=(time=0&buff.bloodlust.down)|(buff.bloodlust.down&equipped.132410) actions+=/call_action_list,name=cooldowns actions+=/blizzard,if=buff.potion_of_deadly_grace.up&!prev_off_gcd.water_jet actions+=/ice_nova,if=debuff.winters_chill.up actions+=/frostbolt,if=prev_off_gcd.water_jet actions+=/water_jet,if=prev_gcd.frostbolt&buff.fingers_of_frost.stack<(2+artifact.icy_hand.enabled)&buff.brain_freeze.react=0 actions+=/ray_of_frost,if=buff.icy_veins.up|(cooldown.icy_veins.remains>action.ray_of_frost.cooldown&buff.rune_of_power.down) actions+=/flurry,if=buff.brain_freeze.react&buff.fingers_of_frost.react=0 actions+=/glacial_spike actions+=/frozen_touch,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.stack<=(0+artifact.icy_hand.enabled) actions+=/blizzard,if=active_enemies>3|active_enemies>2&talent.arctic_gale.enabled actions+=/frost_bomb,if=debuff.frost_bomb.remains<action.ice_lance.travel_time&buff.fingers_of_frost.react>0 actions+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react>0&cooldown.icy_veins.remains>10|buff.fingers_of_frost.react>2 actions+=/frozen_orb actions+=/ice_nova actions+=/comet_storm actions+=/blizzard,if=talent.artic_gale.enabled|active_enemies>1 actions+=/ebonbolt,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.stack<=(0+artifact.icy_hand.enabled) actions+=/frostbolt
You can move the action even further up, but it starts to matter at around 7-8 enemies and the gains are rather small (against 10 enemies, casting Blizzard before Ice Lance is ~2.7% increase, casting Blizzard before Water Jet/Flurry is ~3.1% increase).
This was fixed. Blizzard now responds to AG, #targets, or the Flurry/Blizzard legendary.
visc
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Re: [7.1] Frost Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

Unread postby visc Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:38 am

Probably worth adding that after hitting shatter cap, stat values change to haste>vers>>crit, mastery
Pkm
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Re: [7.1] Frost Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

Unread postby Pkm Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:28 pm

Is blizzard worth casting on one target? With or without AG?
Savant
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Re: [7.1] Frost Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

Unread postby Savant Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:12 pm

I am surprised to see that Incanters flow is better dmg, am I missing something or is that just legit? O.o
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Norrinir
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Re: [7.1] Frost Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

Unread postby Norrinir Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:55 pm

Is blizzard worth casting on one target? With or without AG?
Not worth without AG. With AG, it depends - sim for yourself to be sure.
I am surprised to see that Incanters flow is better dmg, am I missing something or is that just legit? O.o
Yes, it is legit. This is because Frost with BC/TV doesn't have spikes in damage which could be exploited with Rune of Power.

Look at it this way: assume Frost does damage absolutely uniformly (not exactly true, but close enough), then Incanter's Flow is 12% increased spell damage. Rune of Power is +50% for 10 seconds, -100% for 1.5 sec (casting Rune of Power doesn't do any damage) and then +0% for 28.5 sec. This gives 8.75% damage increase. The increase is better in reality, because Rune of Power has two charges (so you get extra +50% for 10 sec compared to my calculation above) and Frost damage isn't completely uniform (Icy Veins).
Savant
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Re: [7.1] Frost Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

Unread postby Savant Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:41 pm

Thanks man! I had a feeling it was something like that but just needed to hear it. Casting blizzard on single target must be quite low priority though? Like when IF has low stacks and you do not have many CD's or flurry procs for chain reactions to use?
kamui
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Re: [7.1] Frost Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

Unread postby kamui Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:52 am

I'm having trouble keeping up Icy Veins. At best, I can maintain it to half cooldown. I'm sitting at 28% Crit and 29% Haste. Am I likely doing something wrong or is it typical to extend IV to only that far?

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