The frost spec and me

[nathyiel]

It's not really a guide on how to Frost. It's more an open thought on the Frost spec.

Our artifact weapon is really cool with interesting lore and power. His power are less flash but really powerful.
The trait choice through relic can lead to some interesting build (outside of the optimal ones) : tanky mage, AoE madness, Ice Lance of the death, etc.
But at the same time, it reinforce the problem in the actual Frost spec : Finger of Frost dependency and lack of AoE outside of specific talent/relic setup.

Don't get me wrong. i really like the spec. Legion Frost mage is clearly one of its best iteration. Ahead or on par with early cataclysm, before Deep Frezee nerf, when our mastery was damage buff on frozen target. (Scarified in the name of the great PvP god).

To be more specific, I will list some of the problem I see then go on were they come from.
1- too much dependent on FoF proc/generation. like expected, it's a resource without the name. We build it, we spend it, we use it to proc things (damage reduction, explosion, cleave, buff, proc, etc).
2- no real AoE outside of very specific talent choice. Blizzard is awkward at best and isn't really worth the cast because Frostbolt can proc too much.
3- Lonely Winter isn't really an option as it cost a lot (less control=less survival and less FoF proc) for bigger raw damage


I think most of this problem appears late in the beta when Dev change Brain Freeze from reducing Frozen orb cooldown to the actual instant Flurry. The previous iteration worked very well as it provided a regular source of FoF proc and it resulted in a somewhat AoE rotation.
I don't know why they decide to change this late in the beta. I think it might be performing to good on small group and AoE.
But the result is here : some talent feel unattractive, Blizzard seem to be in a strange place, etc.

The problem with Lonely Winter is is tied to it indirectly. FoF generation wasn't a problem with the previous Brain Freeze. But because of the whole spec is designed around FoF and Ice Lance (legendary effect, Thermal void, Frost Bomb, Jouster, Splitting Ice, etc), raw damage buff don't really compensate the lack of FoF proc from the Water Elemental.

I could go like this but I think it's time to conclude and open the discussion.
What the Frost spec need the some is refinement. It could have been better if the change to Brain Freeze was earlier in the beta.
A few example of what can be done to improve the spec :
1- change Finger of Frost into a resource, with a proper UI, etc. And balance the spec around it. Just don't go half way.
2- increase Winter Chill duration to 1.5s or 2s. Now, the best it can do outside of Flurry is boost a few ticks of Comet Storm and Frozen Orb.
3- Give a way to generate more FoF with Lonely Winter and It's Cold Outside.
4- Give Glacial Spike a proper UI with a spell alert. It's a pain in the a** to track icicle (or to configure an add-on to do it).
5- like for a few expansion : give us a real AoE rotation, please. We have already Frozen orb, Cone of Cold and Blizzard. But no our AoE come from Frost Bomb, Ice Nova and Unstable Magic proc. Cone of Cold is just a spell to slow things and Blizzard don't really feel that good (even if it is).
6- add a small blue line on the ground to show the radius of Blizzard area. With it, we can know more precisely when it end.

[MagusMaximus]

I've not tested this at all, but has anyone tried looking at how many FoF procs are potentially wasted with the cap back to 3 (2 if you haven't picked up the trait yet?) Granted there are some situations where I'm dying for a proc, and then there are others where I feel like I'm likely having some wasted due to random generation. I could be wrong because as I said I've not really looked at it. When it was 4 I felt I had very good control of my FoF procs.

I also feel that our artifact ability is extremely underpowered compared to others. Mine is currently at a 2.28 cast time with 253,940 base damage. The only reason this is really used is for the guaranteed procs, and depending on the situation they can get wasted because a FoF gets generated during the long cast time. Then, the only AoE potential is indirect: the FoF procs. I don't know if this is just by design, or if it needs a buff in some way but at the moment I feel it is more of a burden to use than not.

What would you suggest for a FoF resource? I'm indifferent on changing it from how it is now. Another QoL improvement I think is need is changing how Bone Chilling stacks work. If your stack drops you instantly lose a flat 8% damage, and outside of FO, Blizzard, or Flurry, it's what I believe is a too long of a build up time. Maybe only drop 1 or 2 stacks at a time? That way you're not so severely punished for having it drop.

[nathyiel]

1- wasting stack of FoF.
Since I obtain the third stack, I don't think I lose that much of proc. Maybe 1 or 2 proc on a whole boss fight.

2- Ebonchill power
the power of our artifact don't come from http://www.wowhead.com/spell=214634/ebonbolt" target="_blank but from http://www.wowhead.com/spell=195448/chilled-to-the-core" target="_blank .
That's why http://www.wowhead.com/spell=155149/thermal-void" target="_blank is that good. Some of the baseline trait arereally powerful.

3- AoE
Until you take all point in http://www.wowhead.com/spell=195352/the-storm-rages" target="_blank and http://www.wowhead.com/spell=195323/orbital-strike" target="_blank , don't expect to do good damage in AoE. But even with them, I suggest taking appropriate talent, starting with http://www.wowhead.com/spell=153595/comet-storm" target="_blank and/or http://www.wowhead.com/spell=157997/ice-nova" target="_blank.

4- FoF source
If you feel lacking FoF proc then take http://www.wowhead.com/spell=205030/frozen-touch" target="_blank

5- Bone Chilling
I really don't think it need a change as it relatively easy to keep it up on fight.
For reducing the ramp-up, I suggest : pre-cast http://www.wowhead.com/spell=44614/flurry" target="_blank et began with http://www.wowhead.com/spell=84714/frozen-orb" target="_blank.
Just with this, you began the fight at 4 stack and you will be at 12 stack in a few second.

edit: I always forget http://www.wowhead.com/spell=112948/frost-bomb" target="_blank but it such a pain in the a** to use outside of boss fight. It only work good with Thermal Void.

[kooriaisu]

It would be nice if Thermal void extended chilled to the core duration. I do agree that bone chilling feels awkward because frost is about spamming ice lances and you are not going to keep bone chilling stacked during a long period of burning thru FoF

[nathyiel]

It would be nice if Thermal void extended chilled to the core duration. I do agree that bone chilling feels awkward because frost is about spamming ice lances and you are not going to keep bone chilling stacked during a long period of burning thru FoF

They give a 20s duration for Chilled to the core to keep Thermal Void from being OP.

For Bone Chilling, if you spam FoF-IL to the point of dropping the buff, I think you doing it wrong.
FoF have a longer duration than BC, so you can always cast a quick Frostbolt to keep it up. Time to Water Jet ^o^


edit : I stop using Frostbomb, not my things. Nostalgic of MoP Frost Bomb.
I test http://www.wowhead.com/spell=205038/arctic-gale" target="_blank right now. Pretty good damage but need a lot of control over the mob and there's no clue on its real radius. A small circle on the ground might help a lot here.

[Marzoc]

Firstly i wanted to say yay there are other frost mages still holding onto the frozen dream.

I just wanted to point out, with flurry, although it doesnt proc a FoF, you have roughly a 2 second window where if you hit the target with an icelance that was hit with flurry, it counts as if the target was frozen.

So ive improved my dps by ensuring i use all FoF first before casting the flurry from brain freeze (unless of course its about to expire but i rarely have that issue)

Although the brain freeze was changed to give free flurry's, i feel the additional icelances still works out roughly the same?

I could be wrong because i didnt test beta

[nathyiel]

edit: result of my test !!
Winter's chill effect is applied by every hit of Flurry. The effect last for 1 second after the last hit. This create enough delay so any Ice Lance cast just after Flurry will benefice of it.

I tested casting Flurry just a slow spell. it only work, partially, with Comet Storm because of its internal delay. But things like ping and latency might be of some importance.

Since micro-optimization confirm to be the way to go in the Frost spec, it might be interesting to do some thinking on the opening sequence.

For pre-cast, should we go for Ebonbolt, Flurry or Frostbolt ?
What should we use first : Frozen Orb or Water Jet ?

[Architech]

The other important trick with flurry is to use it to shatter frostbolt.

a cast sequence of Frostbolt->flurry -> Icelance will result in all 3 benefiting from WC (at reasonably long ranges)

[nathyiel]

The other important trick with flurry is to use it to shatter frostbolt.

a cast sequence of Frostbolt->flurry -> Icelance will result in all 3 benefiting from WC (at reasonably long ranges)

you need to cast it in the lag compensation for each spell to leave at the same time.

I really like how Flurry is designed internally.
The spell have a travel speed of 0 (it's infinite). It apply a DoT that tick 3 times, starting at 0.2