Frost PvE Rotation/Priority

Guides and discussions of all things specific to the Ice Lancers of Azeroth.
PwnPants
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Frost PvE Rotation/Priority

Unread postby PwnPants Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:41 pm

Mod note: Let's keep this thread open to serve as rotation investigation and research. :)

I have been playing primarily fire this expansion and didn't really play mage in pve previous to this expac. The rotation/intro guide in the fire forums was immensely helpful for learning/understanding that spec/rotation and diving into raids/mythics with some clue of how to play. In the pursuit of mastering all the specs available and trying something new I have been brainstorming dabbling in Frost (recent buffs are a good incentive as well).

The problem I am running into is finding concrete information on how best to approach the pve priorities/rotation for the frost spec. I have looked at the icy veins write up and wowhead as well although they have some slightly different info. I am currently parsing through the simcraft priority list but I am not sure if that is up to date after the recent balance changes. I had a few specific questions and would love more information in general:

1.) Does anyone have an updated ability priority list that accounts for the recent frost changes and says what abilities to use first? The spec seems to boil down to keeping things on cooldown and burning FoF procs at the right time with a few flare tricks like shattering flurries, just not sure how to prioritize things.

2.) How critical is the 20% Damage gold trait at the end of the frost artifact? What about the 3 FoF trait or is this mostly QoL? I am about 5 traits away and not sure if I should even consider trying the spec until I get more artifact power invested

3.) I read about the ability to frostbolt > flurry > lance and getting a shatter buff to both bolt and lance. Does this require a blink after the bolt is off to beat the travel time and gain the buff? or can flurry be used right after and still cause the bolt to shatter? I don't have access currently to testing so was mostly asking in case someone knew.

4.) Which abilities should we prioritize during RoPower burst windows? For fire the combustion RoP combo is obvious. In frost I'm not sure if I should be using Ray of frost or just frost bomb + lance strings.

5.) Which abilities should we combine with icy veins?

I will have more questions but those are a good place to start. As these questions were specific to how to play frost I put them in the frost forum. I don't have any specific "fix my raid dps" questions yet because i'm still trying to learn the spec so I wasn't sure if I should post here or QA. Thanks guys/gals for any help.
Seatoo
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Re: Frost PvE Rotation/Priority

Unread postby Seatoo Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:35 pm

I too would like some more information on pve frost too. Sims for the next raid show it being essentially equal to fire, and since I hate Fire this xpac I'd prefer to have frost ready to go as a viable alternative when the time comes
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Norrinir
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Re: Frost PvE Rotation/Priority

Unread postby Norrinir Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:14 pm

1) The only effect the hotfix had on our rotation is that Blizzard is now worth using on single target even without Arctic Gale. There might be some concerns about the Flurry combo, because Flurry got rather huge buff (and is getting even bigger buff in 7.1), which might make the combo not as appealing as it tends to munch non-trivial amount of Brain Freeze procs. But I haven't done any concrete research into this.

Kuni is preparing Frost guide, so I'd look there once it's published.

2) Chilled to the Core is of course nice, but it's not gamebreaking. Its value fluctuates a lot with your talent setup and relics, so I'd sim this one to be sure (burst heavy setups like RoP + RoF benefit much more, for example). The 3 FoF trait is more on the QoL side, but it stops (most of) FoF muching on Ebonbolt and also makes it so your Freeze generates 3 FoF, which is absolutely wonderful in mythic dungeons.

If I had to rate the 1 rank traits, I'd go with Chain Reaction > It's Cold Outside > Chilled to the Core >= Icy Hand > Black Ice > Ice Nine

3) Does not require Blink, but it requires you to be standing >20 yards from your target (more or less). There is some combo potential with Shimmer, BF Flurry and Ebonbolt/Glacial Spike etc, but I think the damage difference is rather insignificant and mostly not worth it.

4) If you have Ray of Frost, you want to sync RoP with RoF if possible. If you don't, you just want to have bunch of FoF procs, cast Frost Bomb -> RoP -> dump FoF -> Ebonbolt -> dump FoF. Not sure if it's worth trying to keep Chain Reaction going if you had any stacks before you dropped RoP.

5) If you have Ray of Frost then that one, obviously. The current simc profile even delays RoF if Icy Veins' CD is < 60 sec, which (from my limited testing) seems to actually work fairly well. If you run with Thermal Void, you could probably just delay only if Icy Veins' CD is like < 30 sec and hope to get RoF at the end of Icy Veins.

Other than that, you want to have RoP charge available (and preferably get second during Icy Veins).

Because of Frozen Veins, your Icy Veins and Frozen Orb get out of sync, so I wouldn't bother trying to line these up at the cost of Icy Veins uptime. I usually start with:
  • (on pull) precast Frostbolt
  • Frost Bomb (if not using RoF)
  • Frozen Orb
  • Rune of Power
  • Use cooldowns (Icy Veins, Berserking, trinkets, Time Warp depending on encounter)
  • Start dumping FoF (if not using RoF)
  • Ray of Frost
If you can sneak Ebonbolt into the first RoP, great. If not, wait for RoP to drop, reapply Frost Bomb, drop second RoP and cast Ebonbolt. Continue with normal rotation.
PwnPants
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Re: Frost PvE Rotation/Priority

Unread postby PwnPants Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:49 pm

So much helpful information here, thanks vituscze! I saw mention of that incoming frost guide somewhere else, will definitely keep an eye out for it.

The trait comparison is nice too and gives me an idea on how to fill out the tree. At times I feel like I'm detracting from fire by working on a second artifact but at this point I am getting such minimal increases to fire (1% fire crit dmg) that it doesn't feel as bad to branch out and try frost as well.

1) Do you play with glacial spike and fit that into RoP as well? Ray of frost and GSpike are two of my favorite looking abilities so trying to make them work if possible.

2) Does orb get combined with icy veins because it is fire and forget and benefits from the haste? Does it damage more frequently with veins up? Does it snapshot or does it update when you apply the buff after an orb is already flying out?

3) Blizzard damage buff was enough to make it that strong on single target? Just because it is also fire and forget? I plan to play around with it more in mythics tonight but I thought it was only good against 4+ targets prepatch.
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Norrinir
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Re: Frost PvE Rotation/Priority

Unread postby Norrinir Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:37 pm

1) I mostly play with Comet Storm, since you need every AoE talent to not fall behind in dungeons. I use and quite like Glacial Spike for outdoor questing, you can Shatter it on demand and the unbreakable root means you almost never take damage, even from scary elites.

Before the hotfix, using Glacial Spike was actually a dps loss because it reduced your uptime on Chain Reaction drastically. With the hotfix, it might be slight dps gain over not using lvl 100 talent at all. I haven't done the comparisons yet, but I'd assume Glacial Spike is still the worst talent of the tier.

If there's some gimmick fight where you get huge damage done buffs (like at the end of Black Rook Hold), Glacial Spike reaches comical levels of damage (because it double dips on versatility and damage buffs). So I suppose that's one "viable" way to use it.

But yeah, if you can go into RoP with 5 Icicles, it's probaby a good idea to drop GS during RoP. Again, probably depends on your stats (mostly mastery). If you know how to change the APL in simc, I'd do that and sim for yourself.

2) Orb doesn't benefit from haste, as far as I know. It always does 20 ticks. You'd want to sync them up for two reasons:
  • Thermal Void - 1 + 2.4 FoF procs give you ~6.8 extra seconds on Icy Veins
  • Rune of Power - you want to save RoP for Icy Veins, so it's basically free damage as Frozen Orb is fire and forget
The second point is almost inconsequential, since average Frozen Orb damage is slightly above that of a single Ice Lance. The first point might be relevant, but if anything, you'd want to delay Frozen Orb for Icy Veins and not the other way around.

3) Yeah, basically. Just by looking at my tooltips, I get:
  • Frostbolt - 1.54 sec cast - 81652 damage
  • Blizzard - 1.54 sec cast - 146968 damage
Of course, you can't just compare the damage like that. Frostbolt has part of its damage hidden in Icicle, so in reality, it's doing X% more (where X is your mastery). Frostbolt also procs Brain Freeze (21%) and FoF (12%) while Blizzard only procs FoF (8x 5%).

But yeah, if you sim it, you can clearly see that casting Blizzard is a dps gain.
Ailia
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Re: Frost PvE Rotation/Priority

Unread postby Ailia Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:43 pm

1) The only effect the hotfix had on our rotation is that Blizzard is now worth using on single target even without Arctic Gale.
How sure are we on this? Looking at Simcraft at higher gear levels - H and M profiles - Frostbolt damage appears to catch up to Blizzard damage. When I remove the string for Blizzard from the priority list the difference in damage between profiles is extremely minimal with the M profile (a mere 43 dps). Blizzard is showing a 1500ish dps increase for the H profile and 7000ish for the P profile.

Can anyone explain why Frostbolt is slowly outpacing Blizzard?

Also, I'm new to mage and to simcraft, so I may be screwing things up and not simming correctly.

Thanks
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Norrinir
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Re: Frost PvE Rotation/Priority

Unread postby Norrinir Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:53 pm

1) The only effect the hotfix had on our rotation is that Blizzard is now worth using on single target even without Arctic Gale.
How sure are we on this? Looking at Simcraft at higher gear levels - H and M profiles - Frostbolt damage appears to catch up to Blizzard damage. When I remove the string for Blizzard from the priority list the difference in damage between profiles is extremely minimal with the M profile (a mere 43 dps). Blizzard is showing a 1500ish dps increase for the H profile and 7000ish for the P profile.

Can anyone explain why Frostbolt is slowly outpacing Blizzard?

Also, I'm new to mage and to simcraft, so I may be screwing things up and not simming correctly.

Thanks
I'm fairly certain it's because H and M profiles have more mastery rating from gear compared to the P profile.

edit: And the artifact trait for 10% Frostbolt damage.

Looking more into it:

The P profile has 15% Blizzard crit trait, which is obviously going to bump the damage of Blizzard quite a bit. It doesn't have the Frostbolt trait.

The H profile has 15% Blizzard crit trait and 1 rank of Frostbolt damage trait (+3% damage).

The M profile has 15% Blizzard crit trait and all 3 ranks of Frostbolt damage trait (+10% damage).

However, this is an excellent point I haven't considered. So yes, it seems like "use Blizzard on single target" has some caveats to it: your mastery and Frostbolt/Blizzard traits.
PwnPants
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Re: Frost PvE Rotation/Priority

Unread postby PwnPants Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:34 pm

I just saw some additional information that Glacial Spike is also affected by the splitting ice talent. Is this intended as there is no mention of it in the tooltip? Going to log on and experiment with it shortly.

Is frost bomb pretty essential for competitive mythic/dungeon dps? It is one of the more offputting "clunky-feeling" pieces of the rotation currently. In sims it seems pretty close but not sure in practice what people think of it.

Sorry for all the questions, I will do more testing tonight and hopefully get a better grasp of the mechanics and try some of this advice.
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Norrinir
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Re: Frost PvE Rotation/Priority

Unread postby Norrinir Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:57 pm

Glacial Spike is indeed affected by Splitting Ice. Right now, it does 50% of Glacial Spike damage to a nearby target (full damage, not only the Icicle part). That might be a bug, as Splitting Ice was bumped to 80% in the recent hotfix wave.

Before the hotfixes, Frost Bomb was basically the only viable option, for any kind of content. With the huge buff to Blizzard damage, Arctic Gale might be a good alternative for sustained AoE damage. However, I still think Frost Bomb is the best choice for dungeons by significant margin.

Currently, sims show that Arctic Gale is not that far off from Frost Bomb on 4 target sustained AoE. However, Frost Bomb on top of that excels in burst AoE. Being able to pop down Rune of Power and dump 6+ Ice Lances into Frost Bomb makes for some very potent burst. And while you run towards the next trash pack, your cooldowns recharge and you can do this again.

I generally agree with you, I'm not a huge fan of Frost Bomb. I guess I'll run few dungeons with Arctic Gale to see how it performs... but I already kind of got used to Frost Bomb.
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nathyiel
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Re: Frost PvE Rotation/Priority

Unread postby nathyiel Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:40 am

On Glacial Spike value :
The mains problem actually is that SimC profile use gear/artifact corresponding to the raid tier. So artifact trait are incomplete so choice have been made. Like I say in another post, taking Ice XI and Black Ice is a good choice with Glacial Spike but not for other setup.
Lonely Winter value have to be taken into account. By design, Lonely Winter and Glacial Spike have a good synergies but Lonely Winter isn't worth taking over Bone Chilling.

For level 100 comparison, it could only be down with 34 trait artifact to remove the trait choice factor. And we have to keep in mind that Glacial Spike is designed for 1-2 target fight when Comet Storm is for AoE fight, and Thermal Void should be good in all situation, maybe better in the 3-4 targets fight.

On Splitting Ice :
I don't think it's a bug as it's behavior have been reported early in alpha/beta. And it work in the same way with icicle crit : normally icicle never crit as Frosttbolt crit is factored in. But Glacial Spike can crit and since it include 5 icicle, then icicle crit. It was confirmed by blue (can be found somewhere on WoWhead frost guide).

On Arctic Gale versus Frost Bomb :
I have always find Frost bomb not fun to play with (I prefer MoP versions), Unstable Magic is interesting but too much inconsistent (if only it was 50% chance for 20% damage instead). Since the buff, I think Arctic Gale is the way to go.
another argument in favor of Arctic Glace is that Bone Chilling will stack quickly and will never risk to go off as Blizzard will continuously refresh it. But in that case, burst AoE will only rely on Frozen Orb and Ice Nova.

Finally to keep from the first purpose of the fight, it might be interesting to find for a few situation what are the best setup and optimal rotation : 1-2 targets, 3-4 targets with focus and 5+ targets without focus.
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PwnPants
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Re: Frost PvE Rotation/Priority

Unread postby PwnPants Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:34 pm

Tried playing frost a little bit yesterday in mythics but sort of felt like I was letting the group down as it gimped my output by quite a bit. Ended up switching back to fire for the rest of the night but still interested in trying frost again each night for practice. Part of the problem is probably my Crit/Mastery focused gear as well, lacking the haste to make frost more competitive.

I tried out comet storm but it felt sort of flimsy (despite looking cool) when compared to some of our other aoe burst potential. Still having the hardest time figuring out how to prioritize cooldowns. Tried to grab the list that the simcraft uses and going based off that but it's a lot of abilities to remember to keep tabs on and weave in. Just need more practice mostly.

I am thinking about trying out some sort of glacial spike focused build for singletarget/cleave (splitting ice) now that I know it can split as well. The thought is maybe a build like that would benefit from my crit/mastery gearing as well as be fun to play. Theorizing about using some less orthodox talents like Unstable magic and maybe even lonely winter to see how it works. I will let you know how it goes. Maybe a more simplified rotation will help me get more comfortable with the class in general.

Are there any spells that you all use that you try to shatter with pet nova or ice nova? I realize ice nova is more of a pvp talent but I was just brainstorming on its uses or on other ways to make glacial spike more powerful. Is it even possible to shatter glacial spike with an ice nova? I assume pet freeze works but don't know if the travel time on glacial spike lets you use ice nova or maybe flurry?

Just brainstorming ideas and other ways to try and play. Been using frost for world quests as well to try and gain experience.
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Norrinir
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Re: Frost PvE Rotation/Priority

Unread postby Norrinir Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:29 pm

You can shatter Glacial Spike with Ice Nova very easily, just queue your Ice Nova right after Glacial Spike and that's it (or in the way I usually do it, just mash the Ice Nova button towards the end of the cast).

Funnily enough, the spell I shatter the most in dungeons is actually Ice Nova. The other two spells you might want to shatter are Glacial Spike and Ebonbolt.

In AoE situations, you want to shatter Ice Nova. If you want to shatter more than that, I'd suggest doing it in a combo such as Glacial Spike + Freeze -> Ice Nova (shattering Ebonbolt in this way will most likely waste FoF charges).

In single target situations, it depends. Shattering with Ice Nova has no downside. Shattering with Freeze means you lose out on 1 extra FoF charge from Water Jet, but it can be worth it. 1 FoF vs 50% extra damage on one spell is actually quite hard to compare (depends on Ebonbolt/Glacial Spike damage, Thermal Void, Frost Bomb, Chain Reaction stacks, etc).

Also, if you are running with Glacial Spike, be sure to take advantage of the 4 sec unbreakable root.

edit: It looks like the Glacial Spike root got hotfixed recently (<2 days ago) and now breaks on damage, aww. :(
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Re: Frost PvE Rotation/Priority

Unread postby PwnPants Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:14 pm

Does the unstable magic talent affect icicle/gspike damage? Do you think the black ice icicle trait is worth picking up early if I want to try and make glacial spike builds work?

So what's the motivation to shatter ice nova? Just great aoe burst? I will try it out as a possible alternative to frostbomb playstyle. :)
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Norrinir
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Re: Frost PvE Rotation/Priority

Unread postby Norrinir Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:35 pm

Unstable Magic does not interact with Icicles in any way.

And yes, that's the motivation. You want to shatter your most damaging spell which tends to be Ice Nova when fighting multiple mobs.
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nathyiel
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Re: Frost PvE Rotation/Priority

Unread postby nathyiel Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:38 pm

Unstable magic don't do a things with icicle.

I take Blake Ice and I have generally one per 5 icicles. They're easy to see as they leave a black trail. I try to combo BF-flurry with GS, for shatter. I don't play with Ice Nova as I choose Splitting Ice. It's even more worth with the recent change.

From personnal experienxe, in terme of raw damage for shatter :
1-2 targets
GS > Comet Storm > Ice Nova > EB
3+ targets
CS > IN > GS.
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Re: Frost PvE Rotation/Priority

Unread postby nathyiel Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:27 pm

I did play with SimC and my profil to check what talent I should choose.

On Lonely Wolf versus Bone Chilling : LW is a DPS loss of at least 5% in the best situation. Ray of Frost is the best in single target.

Here's the result for 1 target :
  • Thermal Void : 233k (243k with Ray of Frost)
  • Glacial Spike : 226k
  • Comet Storm : 221k
  • no level 100 talent : 216k
Here's the result for 2 target :
  • Thermal Void : 385k
  • Glacial Spike : 308k
  • Comet Storm : 335k
  • no level 100 talent : 322k
Conclusion (no news, just confirmation) :
Ray of Frost is amazing in single target
Lonely Winter is trash tier
Thermal Void is the winner in all case (problematic)
Glacial Spike is a DPS loss over not taking L100 talent at all, except in single target fight.


For completeness, I'm 845 ilevel, Magtheridon, artefact level 21/AK6.
And here's the profile I use to test.

Code: Select all

mage="Nathyiel" origin="https://eu.api.battle.net/wow/character/dalaran/nathyiel/advanced" thumbnail="http://eu.battle.net/static-render/eu/dalaran/165/92695973-avatar.jpg" level=110 race=goblin role=spell position=back professions=tailoring=760/enchanting=710 talents=http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#eb!2212020 artifact=53:0:0:0:0:783:1:785:3:786:3:788:3:789:3:791:3:792:1:794:1:795:1:797:1:798:1:1296:1 spec=frost # This default action priority list is automatically created based on your character. # It is a attempt to provide you with a action list that is both simple and practicable, # while resulting in a meaningful and good simulation. It may not result in the absolutely highest possible dps. # Feel free to edit, adapt and improve it to your own needs. # SimulationCraft is always looking for updates and improvements to the default action lists. # Executed before combat begins. Accepts non-harmful actions only. actions.precombat=flask,type=flask_of_the_whispered_pact actions.precombat+=/food,type=azshari_salad actions.precombat+=/augmentation,type=defiled actions.precombat+=/water_elemental actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats actions.precombat+=/mirror_image actions.precombat+=/potion,name=deadly_grace actions.precombat+=/frostbolt # Executed every time the actor is available. actions=counterspell,if=target.debuff.casting.react actions+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react=0&prev_gcd.flurry actions+=/time_warp,if=target.health.pct<25|time=0 actions+=/shard_of_the_exodar_warp,if=buff.bloodlust.down&time>5 actions+=/call_action_list,name=cooldowns actions+=/ice_nova,if=debuff.winters_chill.up actions+=/frostbolt,if=prev_off_gcd.water_jet actions+=/water_jet,if=prev_gcd.frostbolt&buff.fingers_of_frost.stack<(2+artifact.icy_hand.enabled)&buff.brain_freeze.react=0 actions+=/ray_of_frost,if=buff.icy_veins.up|(cooldown.icy_veins.remains>action.ray_of_frost.cooldown&buff.rune_of_power.down) actions+=/flurry,if=buff.brain_freeze.react&buff.fingers_of_frost.react=0&prev_gcd.frostbolt actions+=/glacial_spike actions+=/frozen_touch,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.stack<=(0+artifact.icy_hand.enabled) actions+=/frost_bomb,if=debuff.frost_bomb.remains<action.ice_lance.travel_time&buff.fingers_of_frost.react>0 actions+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react>0&cooldown.icy_veins.remains>10|buff.fingers_of_frost.react>2 actions+=/frozen_orb actions+=/ice_nova actions+=/comet_storm actions+=/blizzard actions+=/ebonbolt,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.stack<=(0+artifact.icy_hand.enabled) actions+=/frostbolt actions.cooldowns=rune_of_power,if=cooldown.icy_veins.remains<cast_time|charges_fractional>1.9&cooldown.icy_veins.remains>10|buff.icy_veins.up|target.time_to_die.remains+5<charges_fractional*10 actions.cooldowns+=/icy_veins actions.cooldowns+=/mirror_image actions.cooldowns+=/blood_fury actions.cooldowns+=/berserking actions.cooldowns+=/arcane_torrent actions.cooldowns+=/potion,name=deadly_grace head=terrorweave_cowl,id=121324,bonus_id=3432/1497/1674 neck=anshes_pendant,id=139101,bonus_id=3432/1522/3337,enchant=75haste shoulders=sunfrost_mantle,id=139129,bonus_id=3432/1497/1674 back=stormsky_greatcloak,id=134202,bonus_id=3397/1492/1675,enchant=gift_of_haste chest=sunfrost_robes,id=139127,bonus_id=3397/1808/1492/1675,gems=100crit wrists=magtheridons_banished_bracers,id=138140,bonus_id=1811 hands=manawracker_gloves,id=134305,bonus_id=3397/40/1502/3336 waist=girdle_of_tirisgarde,id=139753,bonus_id=3385/3384 legs=manawracker_pants,id=134306,bonus_id=3395/1507/3337 feet=manawracker_sandals,id=134308,bonus_id=3397/40/1507/3337 finger1=roughhammered_silver_ring,id=134191,bonus_id=3397/1492/1675,enchant=50haste finger2=roggstone_signet,id=134157,bonus_id=3397/1502/3336,enchant=50haste trinket1=bloom_of_new_growth,id=139076,bonus_id=3396/1808/603/1497/3336,gems=100crit trinket2=nightmare_bloom,id=121311,bonus_id=3432/603/1502/3336 main_hand=ebonchill,id=128862,bonus_id=731,gem_id=141267/141266/142060/0,relic_id=3432:1497:1674/3397:1492:1675/0/0 # Gear Summary # gear_ilvl=844.13 # gear_stamina=18339 # gear_intellect=20263 # gear_crit_rating=5767 # gear_haste_rating=7314 # gear_mastery_rating=4151 # gear_versatility_rating=815 # gear_avoidance_rating=816 # gear_armor=1580
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Re: Frost PvE Rotation/Priority

Unread postby MagusMaximus Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:11 am

So I've just obtained http://www.wowhead.com/item=133970/zannesu-journey. How does this change a rotation using BC/RoP/FT/IF/FB/TV? Do we just cast blizzard whenever we get to 5 stacks?
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Re: Frost PvE Rotation/Priority

Unread postby nathyiel Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:36 am

So I've just obtained http://www.wowhead.com/item=133970/zannesu-journey. How does this change a rotation using BC/RoP/FT/IF/FB/TV? Do we just cast blizzard whenever we get to 5 stacks?
There's no change as we cast Blizzard on cooldown even against single target.

edit> I was a little quick on my reply.
I'm not sure it can be a DPS gain to hold Blizzard top only cast it at max stack of Zannesu. The only case it could be interesting would be a single target fight with lot of add that need to be burst down. But I think it be at the cost of single target damage.
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Re: Frost PvE Rotation/Priority

Unread postby MagusMaximus Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:08 pm

So I've just obtained http://www.wowhead.com/item=133970/zannesu-journey. How does this change a rotation using BC/RoP/FT/IF/FB/TV? Do we just cast blizzard whenever we get to 5 stacks?
There's no change as we cast Blizzard on cooldown even against single target.

edit> I was a little quick on my reply.
I'm not sure it can be a DPS gain to hold Blizzard top only cast it at max stack of Zannesu. The only case it could be interesting would be a single target fight with lot of add that need to be burst down. But I think it be at the cost of single target damage.
Let's suppose one has reached the mastery level at which Frostbolt > Blizzard on single target. You would have to have at least a 1 stack from Zannesu's in order for Blizzard > Frostbolt on single target correct? Because Blizzard is only greater than Frosbolt at lower mastery levels.

My question being, if you're at max stacks of Zann's, which is a 175% increase to Blizzard's damage, then casting blizzard should be a DPS gain wouldn't it? You would have to have insane mastery in order for that to not be true. I'm not exactly sure how to sim this however.
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Re: Frost PvE Rotation/Priority

Unread postby Norrinir Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:59 pm

So I've just obtained http://www.wowhead.com/item=133970/zannesu-journey. How does this change a rotation using BC/RoP/FT/IF/FB/TV? Do we just cast blizzard whenever we get to 5 stacks?
There's no change as we cast Blizzard on cooldown even against single target.

edit> I was a little quick on my reply.
I'm not sure it can be a DPS gain to hold Blizzard top only cast it at max stack of Zannesu. The only case it could be interesting would be a single target fight with lot of add that need to be burst down. But I think it be at the cost of single target damage.
Let's suppose one has reached the mastery level at which Frostbolt > Blizzard on single target. You would have to have at least a 1 stack from Zannesu's in order for Blizzard > Frostbolt on single target correct? Because Blizzard is only greater than Frosbolt at lower mastery levels.

My question being, if you're at max stacks of Zann's, which is a 175% increase to Blizzard's damage, then casting blizzard should be a DPS gain wouldn't it? You would have to have insane mastery in order for that to not be true. I'm not exactly sure how to sim this however.
Change the Blizzard action from

Code: Select all

actions+=/blizzard
to

Code: Select all

actions+=/blizzard,if=buff.zannesu_journey.stack>=X
where X is a number between 0 (always cast Blizzard) and 5 (only at 5 stacks). Run a sim for each value and pick the one that gave best DPS (I suspect it's going to be X=1, unless you have a lot of mastery).

Also, another thing worth simming - the default profile wastes a lot of Brain Freeze procs by always doing the combo "Frostbolt -> Flurry -> Ice Lance", try changing

Code: Select all

actions+=/flurry,if=buff.brain_freeze.react&buff.fingers_of_frost.react=0&prev_gcd.frostbolt
to

Code: Select all

actions+=/flurry,if=buff.brain_freeze.react&buff.fingers_of_frost.react=0
to see if it improves overall damage (by increasing the uptime of Zann'esu Journey buff).

With the changes in 7.1 (Brain Freeze buffs Flurry by 30%), this combo should be a dps loss anyways, but until then...

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