7.1.0 Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

[Chuk]

Can someone confirm this stealth nerf? Simcraft show's me with 15% haste (today's build), but my ingame stats shows 24%. Since i'm new to the spec it's not feeling slower, but if this is the case, the nerf is absolutely massive.

[Chuk]

Another thing to take into consideration when simmimg. For some reason, Selphuz's Secret is proccing in simulations, greatly increasing the total DPS of this spec. In real raid envoirments, this ring doesn't proc at all on bosses.

[fungames22]

I can feel this nerf a bit. I was not sure if my dps was because my pet was on passive or my casts were slow but something felt like a huge nerf! I am starting to believe there is a live 8% haste nerf for frost. A stealth/silent one though. My dps is definitely lower.

[Rikx]

Another thing to take into consideration when simmimg. For some reason, Selphuz's Secret is proccing in simulations, greatly increasing the total DPS of this spec. In real raid envoirments, this ring doesn't proc at all on bosses.

Sephuz isn't used in the "optimal" SimC profile.

Also, the rest of the stuff posted lately needs more evidence than what is technically hearsay. Else it's just another case of "Onyxia is deep breathing more!"

[Razlopp]

I don't know where anyone is getting this "Stealth" nerf.

The spec in of it self is extremely volatile. Personally I havn't noticed any difference raiding with it in Mythic ToV/EN.

You're going to have pulls that are insane and some that are lack luster. It will never be consistent. It does on average "Good damage", and when you get some RNG you do "Really good damage". Just don't get used to that RNG and expect that every pull. Know how to play when you don't get that RNG and don't tilt yourself and you'll be fine.

This spec seems the most promising to progress with on both Odyn/Guarm. Many guilds atm are running fire mages and they're bottom of the barrel for these fights. Some do okay if they have bracers, but imo frost is the spot to be on these 2 bosses. Helya is amazing for fire tho

Cheers.

[Chuk]

I'm just asking cause it seems like the spec is dealing slightly less damage than before. Might be RNG.

On another note, Glacial spike seems to sim a little bit higher than live servers for some reason. I'm doing some tests (200+ GS casts) and my average GS cast (both crit and non crit) seems to be about 5% less than live. I'm not sure if this is just bad RNG but might be something to look into as well.

[Rikx]

I'm just asking cause it seems like the spec is dealing slightly less damage than before. Might be RNG.

On another note, Glacial spike seems to sim a little bit higher than live servers for some reason. I'm doing some tests (200+ GS casts) and my average GS cast (both crit and non crit) seems to be about 5% less than live. I'm not sure if this is just bad RNG but might be something to look into as well.

Are your maximum and minimum hits lining up, or are they also off by 5%?

Also, are you simming with flask and food, and testing without?

[Chuk]

Removed consumables from APL, using only lust. Everything is off (crits and hits) and maximum is what is significantly lower.

Can someone test it as well to see if i'm the only one facing this issues.

[broedrost]

Is this spec the best frostspec you can run right now? Stat priority etc is the opposite of what Icy Veins say (please dont murder me for saying that). They list mastery as the worst stat and here it's the best, what's the reasoning behind that? I'm new to frost and I'm trying to figure out how to play.

[fungames22]

Another thing to take into consideration when simmimg. For some reason, Selphuz's Secret is proccing in simulations, greatly increasing the total DPS of this spec. In real raid envoirments, this ring doesn't proc at all on bosses.

How do we turn this off in sims? How do I make a custom item?

[fungames22]

Hmmm, Would a mastery stat stick be better than a crit stat stick? if mastery is the highest weight... Why is crit > mastery for you?

[createk]

Hmmm, Would a mastery stat stick be better than a crit stat stick? if mastery is the highest weight... Why is crit > mastery for you?

Ethereal Urn is int+master "stat stick" with fear removal. Its the nightbane trinket aka same as worldq mastery trinket without the fear removal

Also I guess its not worth to try this spec without "black ice" artifact trait and mastery gear?

[cdog]

Is this spec still going to be viable vs. standard TV Frost come 7.1.5?

I assume with the FB Nerf/IL buff that you'll want to at least be spending IL procs as opposed to chain casting FB.

[Wiccan]

I tried this spec yesterday in an heroic EN and was very impressed with the results.

Its just not very good in the eye fight due to the lack of burst damage.

For those like me who doest not have enough haste gear to go for TV build, this is it.

[Steelbane]

Tried this spec tonight in ToV, its not a good raid to get numbers from.. progression etc, but it seems to be higher dps (mostly), but my thoughts were:

o My GS Damage was around 36%, Frostbolt Damage 32%, so almost equal, but on the top parses ive seen the GS damage is closer to 50% of their total damage.. even 68% on a Preheats Xavius kill, so I wonder how that is possible? And i thought about it some more.. it has be splitting ice.. if every GS hits 2 targets (and frostbolt hits 1), then theoretically you could get to about a 66%/33% damage split.. thats going to skyrocket your damage, but thats the case for any splitting ice build.

o The initial feel is very clunky, very much like an Arcane Mage where you need to stop and cast 4-5 frostbolts (like arcane blasts), and the mobility isnt there because you donthave lots of juicy FoF procs lined up to cast during a movement.

o Definitely need a Weak Aura or TMW to track icicles, you need to predict the GS proc, not cast a 6th frostbolt first before hitting GS.. that would really add up over time.

o Soloing is also a struggle without the mobility of ice lance + split ice destruction, you take a lot more hits to the face before spike is rdy.. I know this shouldnt matter for a raider... but dropping in and out of instances all the time, it has to be a very clear dps upgrade to warrant switching back & forth.

Will test again next week in EN Heroic, those fights not being progression fights I think will be much easier to compare to data from previous weeks... plus try to keep some of that mastery gear ive been DE'ing (woops).

[Rikx]

Wound up being a monster-post, responding to everyone. Whoops.

Removed consumables from APL, using only lust. Everything is off (crits and hits) and maximum is what is significantly lower.

Can someone test it as well to see if i'm the only one facing this issues.

Do the stats (int, crit%, haste% etc) in the Sim match your stats live?

I tried this spec yesterday in an heroic EN and was very impressed with the results. Its just not very good in the eye fight due to the lack of burst damage. For those like me who doest not have enough haste gear to go for TV build, this is it.

Honestly it may not burst as *high* as Fire does currently, the window in which you do increased damage is longer than Fire.

Is this spec still going to be viable vs. standard TV Frost come 7.1.5? I assume with the FB Nerf/IL buff that you'll want to at least be spending IL procs as opposed to chain casting FB.

You're already supposed to spend IL procs when you have high chain reaction. Really nothing should change with the playstyle except for the possibility of adding back in Ebonbolt. That hasn't been simmed yet though.

As for my personal opinion, I think it'll probably ahead of standard TV Frost, particularly because TV got hit hard by taking away a lot of their guaranteed FoF procs, and despite the Frostbolt damage nerf, Glacial Spike got a very hefty buff that will still increase our overall dps.

Also I guess its not worth to try this spec without "black ice" artifact trait and mastery gear?

Mastery is very beneficial. Black Ice according to sims is quite a benefit but it's not so huge that you'll do zero damage without it.

Sim yourself, then try it for yourself.

Hmmm, Would a mastery stat stick be better than a crit stat stick? if mastery is the highest weight... Why is crit > mastery for you?

It's not. As I said in the post, I couldn't find the bonus_id to MAKE a mastery stat stick. It's the bonus_id that basically sets the Random Enchantment on the item, but I can't find a guide for those bonus_id's or set a random enchantment on Wowhead to get the bonus_id from that. So what I've been doing is running the SimC addon on my own gear and figuring out the bonus_id from that -- and I don't have a "mastery stat stick" (aka a Random Enchantment trinket that rolled mastery). I have one for Crit, Haste, Versatility, but no Mastery.

How do we turn this off in sims? How do I make a custom item?

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/Equipment

I'd just make a generic "ring" in the profile with the exact stats as the Sephuz. Just make sure you don't add back in the item ID or it'll still try to add in the legendary effect.

o My GS Damage was around 36%, Frostbolt Damage 32%, so almost equal, but on the top parses ive seen the GS damage is closer to 50% of their total damage.. even 68% on a Preheats Xavius kill, so I wonder how that is possible? And i thought about it some more.. it has be splitting ice..

It's a function of Mastery, not Splitting Ice. Mastery, and how long you were in Chilled to the Core (since the 20% damage bonus double-dips on Icicles and Glacial Spike). Compare this pull of H Guarm: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/N8 ... e&source=4
And H Odyn: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/N8 ... 4&fight=29

o Definitely need a Weak Aura or TMW to track icicles, you need to predict the GS proc, not cast a 6th frostbolt first before hitting GS.. that would really add up over time.

I've been using Powered's WAs. They're quite nice, but I had to add my own bar to track the cooldown on Blizzard.

[Drathmar]

I have a quick question on this build as I want to start trying it. On the artifact path you have going for black ice first, however in the APL list (at least both the ones on the front page sorry if I missed an updated one) you only cast ebonbolt pre-combat and never again which kind of makes the trait seem useless?

[Neeb]

I have a quick question on this build as I want to start trying it. On the artifact path you have going for black ice first, however in the APL list (at least both the ones on the front page sorry if I missed an updated one) you only cast ebonbolt pre-combat and never again which kind of makes the trait seem useless?

It says Ebonchill on the black ice trait, which is the name of your weapon, it has nothing to do with ebonbolt.

[Drathmar]

I have a quick question on this build as I want to start trying it. On the artifact path you have going for black ice first, however in the APL list (at least both the ones on the front page sorry if I missed an updated one) you only cast ebonbolt pre-combat and never again which kind of makes the trait seem useless?

It says Ebonchill on the black ice trait, which is the name of your weapon, it has nothing to do with ebonbolt.

Hah, I'm an idiot and misread that. Sorry!

[Nanogiant]

I'm doing much less dps on PTR right now. Much less - like 60k. Very bothering. With the same gear I used on live I was dropped down to 11% haste, probably why. Just a warning that we MIGHT not see this build in the next patch if changes persist.



A blizz dev said:
"We want players to play the spec they want, and not focus on switching in an out of the FotM every patch cycle."

But now, chances are that we HAVE to switch.