7.1.0 Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

[Moyx]

Hey guys, first of all, good job to the original poster! Blizzard made every class to play by a certain pattern, frost mage is meant to hold his icy veins as long as you can with your 110 talent using ice lances and boosting your dps with as long icy veins as you can. BUT this guys found some other way to play this awesome spec. There are 1800 fire mages on my server, 200 arcane and 150 frost. 90 or 95% of frosts are going icy veins ice lance build so we mages with glacial build we are not mainstream at all that i love the most

You mentioned stat priority as mastery > crit > vers - int - haste

So i geared my mage full of mastery > crit gear, replaced my fire legendaries with maste for mastery>crit items and my stats are 100,1% mastery, 26.56 crit, 13.33 haste. Character Moyx-Drak'thul screen: http://imgur.com/a/xSCuL" target="_blank

Talents used: Lonely winter, cauterize (ok you will hate me for that but it saves lives that means you dont lose dps for me ), rune of power, spitting ice, icy floes, unstable, glacial

You can check my glacial build performance from my yesterday's heroic farm: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/c ... 416455/10/" target="_blank
(Search emerald nigtmare - heroic - frost spec) BTW i've not beein using full mastery build yet, i tried it after that raid, but you can profit from my numbers.

At the moment, im looking for a best portion between mastery and crit, cause i feel like: Ok more that 100% of my frostbolt damage goes to my icicles, but generaly i get around 40% frostbolt crit chance with my 26% crit(cause of shatter) but my glacials crit like 2/10 or 1/10 which decreases my dps by alot. So i personaly dont think going full mastery is correct, there should be some soft cap for both WHICH IM ASKING YOU TO HELP ME WITH THIS IDEA!

Second thing, im timing my Rune of power after 2 icicles , so i cast 3 frostbolts + glacial on rune .. is that correct you do do it another way?

If you have any suggestions, questions or you just want to ask me about something, post here or Ingame Moyx-Drak'Thul

[Saróx]

Imo and in the small amount of expirience i got with this build, your running with to little haste. I know haste is not that well simmed for this spec, but i feel like anything under 24%ish haste ruins the rotation, and the dps i pull. My mastery is around 70% and crit is 37% and haste right now 25% no versatility, and my numbers are pretty good, running with the Plauge hive trinket from nythendra and the Bough trinket from xavius, ontop of that i run the sepuzh ring or whatever its called, and the fire legendary head.

I proc the ring as often as posible, on some fights thats 100% uptime which is a very good dmg/survival boost, and the helm is just becuase the 910 ilvl is too much stats to turn down. I dont like running lonely Winther with this spec, as i feel you need to nail your rotation 100% to get higher dmg, and i find that just a little movement on a fight is enough to fuck that up, therefor i run BC 100% of the time.

I've not been running this build a whole lot yet, since i first recently thought it might be a good spec to learn with the upcomming changes on ptr + it's really fun to play, so my input in this thread might not be as relevant as the rest, but i still find the haste being a nessesary evil up until a cirtain point.

[Rikx]

Hey guys, first of all, good job to the original poster! Blizzard made every class to play by a certain pattern, frost mage is meant to hold his icy veins as long as you can with your 110 talent using ice lances and boosting your dps with as long icy veins as you can.

To be fair, it doesn't seem like Blizzard doesn't feel that way after they gutted TV hard via the FoF changes on PTR. Also, there *are* other 110 talents, you know. Just because TV was simming the highest doesn't mean Blizzard intended that to be the only way to play.

You mentioned stat priority as mastery > crit > vers - int - haste (...)

Always, ALWAYS sim yourself. When I was running Lonely Winter and with my gear, haste wasn't that far behind crit when I simmed it. It'd be something like "crit 9.27, haste 9.20". Sim yourself, because you could probably benefit more from haste than crit at this point.

At the moment, im looking for a best portion between mastery and crit, cause i feel like: Ok more that 100% of my frostbolt damage goes to my icicles, but generaly i get around 40% frostbolt crit chance with my 26% crit(cause of shatter) but my glacials crit like 2/10 or 1/10 which decreases my dps by alot. So i personaly dont think going full mastery is correct, there should be some soft cap for both WHICH IM ASKING YOU TO HELP ME WITH THIS IDEA!

If there is, then simming will help reveal it via reforge plots -- is there any point where you have so much mastery that getting more haste, versatility or crit is going to be a bigger dps increase? Given the inherent RNG nature of crit, this is not something you want to go "by feel", but you'll want to, again, sim it.

Second thing, im timing my Rune of power after 2 icicles , so i cast 3 frostbolts + glacial on rune .. is that correct you do do it another way?

I think the current timing is dropping RoP right before your GS, then dumping as many frostbolts while it's still up after that. Unfortunately you'd need quite a bit of haste before you can fit in an entire 5 frostbolts + GS in one RoP, without Icy Veins or lust. Still it's an angle of research that ought to be done, both the haste breakpoints and when exactly to RoP.

I dont like running lonely Winther with this spec, as i feel you need to nail your rotation 100% to get higher dmg, and i find that just a little movement on a fight is enough to fuck that up, therefor i run BC 100% of the time.

BC is very nice in that your variation in damage is lower, but you should be doing more damage with LW if there's cleaving going on.

It'd be nice to figure out how much % uptime on cleaving you have to have before LW beats out BC notably. I'm coming to the point that until PTR changes are set in stone though, I don't want to spend too much time trying to research stuff.

[kollarz]

First, this is a great thread and I'm very thankful for the advise on this build.

Can someone please describe the following short forms: RNG, APL, DPET ?

Do I get it right that we are advised not to cast anything else after our flurry winter chilled the target but to continue with FB which will land even after that 1 second window?

[Chuk]

Duplicated post

[Chuk]

Hey Rikx, i'm enjoying this build so far, but i might be doing something REALLY wrong.

I'm simming (removing consumables from APL) around 365k, but on dummies i don't get anywhere NEAR that damage.

Weird thing is that my damage ingame is kinda the same as sims (as far as percentages)

What i'm doing is basically

Opening
Frostbolt >Lust>Rune+IV>FB till 5>GS repeat

On sustain i just FB > GS, when rune is up i FB to get 1 stack > Rune them FB X4 > GS (GS cast using rune's power)

Still i get in game results for about 320k best.

Not sure if not using Frozen orb is what's causing this, but i have no idea why i'm simming so high (again, that detail that i told you that GS sims higher than in game)

Check my sims below:

Code: Select all

DPS Ranking: 366271 100.0% Raid 366271 100.0% Chukeh HPS Ranking: 0 100.0% Raid Player: Chukeh undead mage frost 110 DPS: 366270.7 DPS-Error=459.6/0.125% DPS-Range=99749/27.2% DPS-Convergence=72.0% HPS: 0.0 HPS-Error=0.0/0.0% DPR=31.3 RPS-Out=11651.1 RPS-In=11651.1 Resource=(mana) Waiting=0.0 ApM=39.5 Talents: 2223122 Artifact: 53:0:0:0:0:783:1:784:3:785:3:786:3:787:3:788:3:789:1:791:3:794:1:797:1:798:1:1296:1 Core Stats: strength=4549|4549(4549) agility=6250|6250(6250) stamina=34650|34650(28460) intellect=34241|34241(32977) spirit=5|5(5) health=2079000|2079000 mana=1100000|1100000 Generic Stats: mastery=83.45%|83.45%(10180) versatility=3.13%|3.13%(1252) leech=0.00%|0.00%(0) runspeed=7.00%|7.00%(0) Spell Stats: power=34241|34241(0) hit=15.00%|15.00%(0) crit=25.95%|25.95%(7332) haste=21.49%|12.49%(4058) speed=21.49%|12.49% manareg=16500|16500(0) Attack Stats: power=0|0(0) hit=7.50%|7.50%(0) crit=25.95%|25.95%(7332) expertise=7.50%|7.50%(0) haste=12.49%|12.49%(4058) speed=12.49%|12.49% Defense Stats: armor=1753|1753(1753) miss=3.00%|3.00% dodge=3.00%|3.00%(0) parry=0.00%|0.00%(0) block=0.00%|0.00%(0) crit=0.00%|0.00% versatility=1.57%|1.57%(1252) Priorities (actions.precombat): water_elemental/snapshot_stats/mirror_image/frostbolt Priorities: counterspell,if=target.debuff.casting.react time_warp,if=(time=0&buff.bloodlust.down)|(buff.bloodlust.down&equipped.132410) call_action_list,name=cooldowns flurry,if=buff.brain_freeze.react&prev_gcd.frostbolt blizzard,if=buff.zannesu_journey.stack>4|buff.zannesu_journey.remains<cast_time+1&equipped.133970 ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react>0&buff.chain_reaction.react>2&(equipped.138140|equipped.132411) ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react>0&buff.chain_reaction.react>1&buff.rune_of_power.down frozen_orb,if=buff.rune_of_power.down/glacial_spike/frostbolt Priorities (actions.cooldowns): rune_of_power,if=cooldown.icy_veins.remains<cast_time|charges_fractional>1.7&cooldown.icy_veins.remains>38|buff.icy_veins.up|target.time_to_die.remains+5<charges_fractional*22 icy_veins,if=buff.icy_veins.down Actions: flurry Count= 20.9| 14.27sec DPE= 0| 0% DPET= 0 DPR= 0.0 pDPS= 0 TickCount=63 UpTime=0.2% flurry_bolt Count= 62.6| 4.61sec DPE= 240463|14% DPET= 0 DPR= 0.0 pDPS= 50024 Miss=0.00% Hit=143247|115968|208743 Crit=286608|231936|417485|67.8% frostbolt Count=131.6| 2.28sec DPE= 202821|22% DPET=135777 DPR= 9.1 pDPS= 81739 Miss=0.00% Hit=123783|101966|183538 Crit=248363|203931|367076|50.2% frozen_orb Count= 4.9| 62.93sec DPE= 340885| 0% DPET=289963 DPR= 31.0 pDPS= 0 TickCount=95 UpTime=15.7% frozen_orb_bolt Count= 0.0| 0.00sec DPE= 0| 2% DPET= 0 DPR= 0.0 pDPS= 5485 MissTick=0.0% Tick=11689|11610|20899 CritTick=33899|33670|60606|25.9% glacial_spike Count= 29.5| 10.29sec DPE=2067493|55% DPET=920716 DPR=188.0 pDPS=202837 Miss=0.00% Hit=1643736|747162|6579759 Crit=3282990|1494324|11943676|25.9% icicle Count= 10.3| 30.58sec DPE= 196129| 2% DPET= 0 DPR= 0.0 pDPS= 6719 Miss=0.00% Hit=196532|89347|643302 icy_veins Count= 2.9|125.90sec DPE= 0| 0% DPET= 0 DPR= 0.0 pDPS= 0 mark_of_the_hidden_satyr Count= 19.2| 15.87sec DPE= 134308| 2% DPET= 0 DPR= 0.0 pDPS= 8555 Miss=0.00% Hit=106714|86362|155452 Crit=213165|172724|310904|25.9% rune_of_power Count= 8.8| 36.91sec DPE= 0| 0% DPET= 0 DPR= 0.0 pDPS= 0 touch_of_the_grave Count= 15.4| 20.01sec DPE= 53795| 1% DPET= 0 DPR= 0.0 pDPS= 2736 Miss=0.00% Hit=42713|35313|63563 Crit=85535|70625|127126|25.9% unstable_magic_explosion Count= 26.5| 11.17sec DPE= 93167| 2% DPET= 0 DPR= 0.0 pDPS= 8175 Miss=0.00% Hit=93166|50983|183538 Constant Buffs: frost_armor Dynamic Buffs: bloodlust : start= 1.0 refresh= 0.0 interval= 0.0 trigger= 0.0 uptime=13.49% benefit=38% brain_freeze : start=21.1 refresh= 4.2 interval= 14.2 trigger= 11.8 uptime=15.67% benefit=16% chilled_to_the_core : start= 2.9 refresh= 0.0 interval=126.0 trigger=126.0 uptime=18.62% benefit=19% fingers_of_frost : start= 7.2 refresh= 25.0 interval= 43.0 trigger= 8.9 uptime=70.19% benefit=70% icicles : start=29.9 refresh=129.1 interval= 10.2 trigger= 1.9 uptime=91.86% benefit=92% icy_veins : start= 2.9 refresh= 0.0 interval=126.0 trigger=126.0 uptime=18.62% benefit=19% rune_of_power : start= 8.8 refresh= 0.0 interval= 36.9 trigger= 36.9 uptime=28.68% benefit=29% Benefits: 49.2% : Fingers of Frost from Frostbolt 15.4% : Fingers of Frost from Frozen Orb Initial Impact 35.4% : Fingers of Frost from Frozen Orb Tick Up-Times: 4.6% : Mana Cap Gains: 3510609.6 : mp5_regen (mana) (overflow=29.5%) Waiting: 0.00% *** Targets *** Target: Fluffy_Pillow humanoid enemy unknown 113 DPS: 0.0 DPS-Error=0.0/0.000% DPS-Range=0/0.0% DPS-Convergence=0.0% HPS: 0.0 HPS-Error=0.0/0.0% Talents: 0000000 Core Stats: strength=0|0(0) agility=0|0(0) stamina=0|0(0) intellect=0|0(0) spirit=0|0(0) health=0|130324934 mana=0|0 Generic Stats: mastery=0.00%|0.00%(0) versatility=0.00%|0.00%(0) leech=0.00%|0.00%(0) runspeed=7.00%|7.00%(0) Spell Stats: power=0|0(0) hit=0.00%|0.00%(0) crit=0.00%|0.00%(0) haste=0.00%|0.00%(0) speed=0.00%|0.00% manareg=0|0(0) Attack Stats: power=0|0(0) hit=0.00%|0.00%(0) crit=5.00%|5.00%(0) expertise=0.00%|0.00%(0) haste=0.00%|0.00%(0) speed=0.00%|0.00% Defense Stats: armor=3474|3474(3474) miss=3.00%|3.00% dodge=3.00%|3.00%(0) parry=3.00%|3.00%(0) block=3.00%|3.00%(0) crit=0.00%|0.00% versatility=0.00%|0.00%(0) Priorities (actions.precombat): snapshot_stats Priorities: Actions: Constant Buffs: bleeding/mortal_wounds Dynamic Buffs: Health Decade (0 - 10) : start= 1.0 refresh= 0.0 interval= 0.0 trigger= 0.0 uptime=10.13% benefit=10% Health Decade (10 - 20) : start= 1.0 refresh= 0.0 interval= 0.0 trigger= 0.0 uptime=10.62% benefit=11% Health Decade (20 - 30) : start= 1.0 refresh= 0.0 interval= 0.0 trigger= 0.0 uptime=11.46% benefit=11% Health Decade (30 - 40) : start= 1.0 refresh= 0.0 interval= 0.0 trigger= 0.0 uptime=11.91% benefit=12% Health Decade (40 - 50) : start= 1.0 refresh= 0.0 interval= 0.0 trigger= 0.0 uptime= 9.84% benefit=10% Health Decade (50 - 60) : start= 1.0 refresh= 0.0 interval= 0.0 trigger= 0.0 uptime= 9.71% benefit=10% Health Decade (60 - 70) : start= 1.0 refresh= 0.0 interval= 0.0 trigger= 0.0 uptime=12.50% benefit=13% Health Decade (70 - 80) : start= 1.0 refresh= 0.0 interval= 0.0 trigger= 0.0 uptime=12.29% benefit=12% Health Decade (80 - 90) : start= 1.0 refresh= 0.0 interval= 0.0 trigger= 0.0 uptime= 6.41% benefit= 6% Health Decade (90 - 100) : start= 1.0 refresh= 0.0 interval= 0.0 trigger= 0.0 uptime= 5.16% benefit= 5% chilled : start= 1.0 refresh=289.0 interval= 1.1 trigger= 1.0 uptime=99.64% benefit=100% winters_chill : start=20.9 refresh= 41.7 interval= 14.3 trigger= 4.6 uptime= 7.02% benefit=28% Waiting: 0.00% Waiting: All players active 100% of the time. Baseline Performance: RNG Engine = sse2-sfmt Iterations = 10007 TotalEvents = 12648348 MaxEventQueue = 25 TargetHealth = 130324934 SimSeconds = 3026612 CpuSeconds = 15.234 WallSeconds = 2.040 SpeedUp = 198670 EndTime = 2016-11-18 14:15:30-0200 (1479485730)

[Rikx]

First, this is a great thread and I'm very thankful for the advise on this build.

Can someone please describe the following short forms: RNG, APL, DPET ?

Do I get it right that we are advised not to cast anything else after our flurry winter chilled the target but to continue with FB which will land even after that 1 second window?

RNG: Random Number Generator. It has to do with how exactly the computer determines something "random" happens, but nowadays the word is just a stand-in to mean just how random and affected by randomness things can be.

For example, crit. It's random how often you crit. If your crit rate is 20%, sometimes you'll do an average of 25%, sometimes 15%, and sometimes exactly 20%. It's not guaranteed to be 20%, but if a fight drags on long enough it should average out to 20%.

Sometimes you can just get lucky and crit a bunch. That's RNG for you.

APL: Action Priority List. Instead of making a static "press E five times, then press R once" and letting the player or simulator go to town, instead we make a List of Actions based on their Priority. Because things like Brain Freeze is random and isn't guaranteed, so you have to react to it, and it's on a higher Priority. So with an APL you do the highest priority action as much as you can.

This is what the simulator runs off of as well.

DPET: Damager Per Execute Time. Aka, how much damage are you going to get if you press this button and let this cast. It's useful for figuring out which Action ought to have a higher Priority on the List.

As for the Brain Freeze proc, the point is to be far enough away that the Flurry lands before your *previous* Frostbolt lands, so it gains the Shatter bonus. That's why you don't do much but Frostbolt - Brain Freeze'd Flurry - Frostbolt.

Hey Rikx, i'm enjoying this build so far, but i might be doing something REALLY wrong.

I'm simming (removing consumables from APL) around 365k, but on dummies i don't get anywhere NEAR that damage.

Can you upload a log of one of your better attempts as well, so we can compare that with a log generated by SimCraft?

[Chuk]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/r9qdTwahk136KRby/" target="_blank


There you go. Managed to improve 20k DPS by 2X FB before ROPing.

[Chuk]

Me again.

After further testing i'm positive that Glacial Spike is being over valued in the Simc. My averages keep being always 5% or more lower than live servers on hits and up to 11% less on criticals.

On average, GS deals 60mi on sims, and usually 45-51mi on live.

Somehow the damage percentage seems in line in both sims and live, but the damage is WAY off.

Can someone help me test this? If this is the case, this spell might be nerfed on live or being simmed wrong / using incorrect coefficients on live.

I've checked frostbolt and flurry damage, and those seem to be aligned with the Simc. Just GS seems to be wrong, which maybe making this spec sim way higher than it should.

[Festen]

Hey, have some questions.

My opener is : Precast FB -> IV/Lust -> RoP -> 4FB -> GS.
My sustain: FB -> GS + flurry when BF up.

Is that good?

Playing with Lonely, 60% mastery, 31% crit, 25% haste. Think my stats are good.

Btw, thanks for this topic, enjoying this spec.

[broedrost]

sorry if this is a noobish question but do you spend icicle procs? or just flurry?

[Rikx]

sorry if this is a noobish question but do you spend icicle procs? or just flurry?

Already been covered.

My opener is : Precast FB -> IV/Lust -> RoP -> 4FB -> GS.
My sustain: FB -> GS + flurry when BF up.

Is that good?

There's no reason to flurry after GS because you're not going to be able to shatter it unless you shimmer in the middle of the flurry. Your best use of the flurry is to shatter your frostbolts for a bigger icicle.

And in my opinion your opener depends on how much haste you have. I don't think this has been properly hashed out either.

stuff

I haven't been ignoring you. Looking into it has made me spend a lot of time making sure everything under the hood is working right and I'm still trying to verify it is - I'm no expert at this.

[Razlopp]

Me again.

After further testing i'm positive that Glacial Spike is being over valued in the Simc. My averages keep being always 5% or more lower than live servers on hits and up to 11% less on criticals.

Glacial spike has some huge huge huge variables, from black ice to frostbolt crits. If you're not shattering frostbolt properly this will bring down the average on glacials. Also if you're not maximizing rune for frostbolts that will also bring down the overall on glacial.

As far as testing and sims go I can confirm everything seems to be fine for me.

[kollarz]

...

Thanks Rikx, it really explains a lot!
As I'm following the discussion here it's beneficial to keep as much FB in RoP as well as the GS that we shoot after those. With my haste I count it as 4FB and the GS but will see in game how it works out. Anyway, I appreciate your help, cheers!

[Rikx]

As I'm following the discussion here it's beneficial to keep as much FB in RoP as well as the GS that we shoot after those. With my haste I count it as 4FB and the GS but will see in game how it works out. Anyway, I appreciate your help, cheers!

Absolutely. However, the current APL isn't using RoP correctly for that stuff at all. It was lifted from the regular frost APL, and so it has a bunch of conditionals optimal for use with Thermal Void.

I'm attempting to learn more and rewrite RoP usage to cast when you'd fist the most frostbolts into it following with a GS at the end, so I can test whether or not it's more dps to use frost orb outside RoP and/or IV, or within it, or whenever it comes up.

[fungames22]

Imo and in the small amount of expirience i got with this build, your running with to little haste. I know haste is not that well simmed for this spec, but i feel like anything under 24%ish haste ruins the rotation, and the dps i pull. My mastery is around 70% and crit is 37% and haste right now 25% no versatility, and my numbers are pretty good, running with the Plauge hive trinket from nythendra and the Bough trinket from xavius, ontop of that i run the sepuzh ring or whatever its called, and the fire legendary head.

I proc the ring as often as posible, on some fights thats 100% uptime which is a very good dmg/survival boost, and the helm is just becuase the 910 ilvl is too much stats to turn down. I dont like running lonely Winther with this spec, as i feel you need to nail your rotation 100% to get higher dmg, and i find that just a little movement on a fight is enough to fuck that up, therefor i run BC 100% of the time.

I've not been running this build a whole lot yet, since i first recently thought it might be a good spec to learn with the upcomming changes on ptr + it's really fun to play, so my input in this thread might not be as relevant as the rest, but i still find the haste being a nessesary evil up until a cirtain point.

Why plaguehive? is it ilvl 865 or higher? Why not a crit or mastery stat stick? Also why bough of corruption?

[fungames22]

I am still finding it so hard to believe that BC>LW. How can this be, if your rotation is always inside of RoP?? 28%>6% also pet dmg is only 30% is that really that much extra damage from your pet?

[Chuk]

What about artifacts relics for this build? I'm already simming close to 420k, but i can see that most DPS from the "perfect" build comes from relics upgrades. I know that frostbolt is the way to go but that means that i'll have to farm arch e maw till those drops? What's the Ilvl gain over the other ones?

[Saróx]

Well the bough, and hive is simply just becuase they are so much higher ilvl than my other trinkets, and seems to be dishing out better numbers than the 840 devilsaur, the 865 cagedhorror, the 855 crit stat stick, the 880 starlight and alot of other trinkets that i've got, so i just run my 880 plaguehive and 875 bough with a gem in, cus they seem to be be the biggest dmg dealers for me, far from optimal, but the bough is a nice mastery buff, and the hive is a huge cast time upg, and the dmg, proc is superior to my devilsaur/crit stick when ever i sim so yea.

I know nothing about this build really, playing it when i need some relief from the traditional IV build, which is not very often, and alot of times when i need relief from the IV build, i chose to go RoF instead. So im still playing this build on a shot/miss basic.

[Riggs4827]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/m ... ago/simple" target="_blank


Anybody know what I am doing wrong? i am only pulling like 220k the only thing I can think of is maybe my artifact lvl is too low? I don't have to icecicle golden trait yet, but i can't imagine that alone is holding me back that much.